![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 2 to 26 of 28. Go back in thread:
Posted by alexandra_k on March 8, 2014, at 15:24:19
In reply to ot, posted by alexandra_k on March 7, 2014, at 22:56:52
i asked her that, actually. well... i didn't say 'pie-hole' but i conveyed the general gist.
then i think of monotonous speeches... the stereotype of an autistic kid recalling from memory the name of every dinosaur he knows, or model aircraft, or...
then i think of the average psychiatrist and their beloved dsm... and the passion with which max would write letters to the government about actual consequences for people who litter cigarette butts...
the problem i have with most people i've seen in therapy... is that they are unable to be quiet. instead of operating all top down (imposing themself on the world / on me) they are unable to... sit back... and operate bottom up. listen to me. see me. actually... get to know me. they are too busy trying to sort whatever limited part of my existence they can bear to face and distorting that into their overly simplistic categories and schemas... such things as 'black and white thinking' and 'judging' and so on... then when the 'right box' gets filled for them they have this little speel... (not like max's mind, not like max's at all) about what is wrong with me...
i said all i had to worry about was chemistry...
and got a little speel on how worry=bad.
and i was surprised. uh, no. worry-good. incubation... then at three in the morning 'oh! g /cm3 is just a notational variant on g -cm3'. a dog worries a bone...
when all you have is a hammer.
sigh.
i don't know how long this will last. i... i'm not going to get what it is that i want here. i... don't know that i can communicate it in a way that won't make them hate me. but even if i could... there isn't anyone. they all bailed. to australia, at least. years ago. or possibly to be found in private practice. but no, i expect not. there comes a certain point at which you go... for the community. i don't think we have any analytic societies over here. such things are... absent from this country. like how physiotherapy here is... anti-intellectual. like being a builder with a set of tools... this country has taken linehan... and used her stuff on how to train a dbt therapist... and used it to train nurses / social workers etc to do 'the most effective form of therapy'. that wasn't linehan's intention... linehan's intention was to use it to train PhD clinical psychologists. to ADD to their toolkit. to EXTEND or EXPAND upon their knowledge base. but here... it has become everything. why? because it is cheaper. talk therapy here is... physio. just like that. the anti-intellectual... the 'i like to talk about me so i'd like to work as a lifeline volunteer so i can impose myself on people lonely enough to listen to me!'.
this cuts me off, rather, from people whom i can relate to. because at the end of the day... it isn't about exercise for me. it isn't about being a bit of a tom boy or hating having my hair cut... insofar as i wanted help with communicating with others... its help communicating with my supervisor etc. someone who has an understanding of academic... ettiquette. and expectation. who can read between the lines on an email... who can help me conduct myself professionally and appropriately.
who can help me do that?
how else will i get a job in academia?
what else will i do?
Posted by Partlycloudy on March 8, 2014, at 20:21:04
In reply to Re: ot, posted by alexandra_k on March 8, 2014, at 15:24:19
I wonder how you would get on with my T. She is, foremost, empathic. Reads body language like a book. Sometimes I go in and cry straight off. Other times, she will give me a cup of tea and we will be able to natter a bit, with the undercurrent waiting to come up. I *always* cry at some point.
She will give me her point of view, but not, to date, her judgement. Recommend but not specify. If I ask directly for direction, she will work it out with me (never give it to me outright). Very, very rarely gives "homework" but if I have been journaling since we last met, it is the starting point of the meeting. So much makes it on to paper that has flown out of my mind.
Interesting how these differing styles converge to meet - or not - our needs. I feel as if I have an extra brain and an extra heart working with me. My psychiatrist takes care of the mechanics, the biometrics.
Do we see the roles of therapy differently?
Posted by alexandra_k on March 9, 2014, at 4:41:04
In reply to Re: ot, posted by Partlycloudy on March 8, 2014, at 20:21:04
i think the fit is the most important thing.
the therapists i've fit the best with are the therapists who were willing to talk theory. or to think theory. to learn new theory. to deepen and develop their own understanding. to discuss things with me. to suggest things... to take things i have to say on board...
like Kathy. it was later... i found she had a PhD in history and actually lectured it for a while before training to be a clinical psychologist. we talked a lot about narrative. about intentions. stuff like... figuring out / narrating why my father left. stuff like that. she was great for me because we came to a fairly shared understanding on the process of... the utility of... narration. as a process of working through.
or my therapist in australia. who introduced me to new theorists. who gave me stuff to read (if i was interested). i learned a lot about stuff that was more psychodynamic. newer understandings of trauma. and his theoretical orientation was about the emotional attunement / connection thing. which was... different from any kind of therapy i'd had... helpful insofar as he refrained from judging me. mostly.
the intellectual connection is important to me. thinking... conceptualising... it is a huge part of who i am. and i think that over time... i've come to a fairly sophisticated conceptualisation, actually. on things like the role of the emotions, the nature of memory, the scope for interpretation... all kinds of things that are important for ones conception of blame and responsibility and... i simply don't see how i'm supposed to connect to people who... speak in catchy phrases 'which skills did you practice today, dear?' or 'but what does your wise mind say?' whenever you say something they disagree with or whatever...
not that ot is quite that bad... but i just don't see... how we can have much of a connection. she... has to be doing something. she has to be educating me (telling me how she's been taught that things are). she has to be offering me advice (skills to try or whatever). she can't just... sit back and relax and... let me. she's too busy doing her thing.
i can play a game so she keeps seeing me... but eventually... what's the point?
i need to accept that this is all the service will offer me.
and there it is.
i suppose i need to raise the issue of what will happen with me when my disability comes up for renewal. not end of this year... end of next. aside from that... i don't know what to say. i... can't talk to her. because she can't shut her pie hole. and there it is.
that always has been the problem of my life... i never did have anyone... whom i could talk to. talk *with*. anyone who helped me feel understood. people try... then i just feel horrible that they didn't succeed. like it is my fault that they didn't. they sure as hell blame me for it. shame on me for not sucking it up and making them feel understood... appreciated... valued... shame on me.
sigh.
people dno't really work for me.
Posted by Twinleaf on March 9, 2014, at 13:21:52
In reply to Re: ot, posted by Partlycloudy on March 8, 2014, at 20:21:04
It sounds like you have a wonderful therapist!
Posted by Partlycloudy on March 9, 2014, at 13:55:02
In reply to Re: ot » Partlycloudy, posted by Twinleaf on March 9, 2014, at 13:21:52
I think she is pretty great.
Posted by baseball55 on March 9, 2014, at 20:07:15
In reply to Re: ot » Partlycloudy, posted by alexandra_k on March 9, 2014, at 4:41:04
It's funny you should want intellectual engagement from a therapist, because this is exactly what most therapists do not encourage. The point of therapy is to learn to express and feel emotions, including emotions toward the therapist. When I first started therapy, I asked my p-doc if he could recommend a book I could read to help me understand the process and he said, "you can't really. It's an emotional process and unfolds differently for everyone. You can't control it intellectually."
Posted by alexandra_k on March 11, 2014, at 22:01:46
In reply to Re: ot » alexandra_k, posted by baseball55 on March 9, 2014, at 20:07:15
Well, yes. Everybody knows intellectualisation = bad. I mean, it is one of the (named) defences and all. So it wouldn't be particularly... Charitable(?) to think I meant that.
What word would you choose? For a therapist who was theoretically able to cope with a bit more than the usual 6-12 week educational block of cbt strategies supplemented with a bit of sensory stuff? For someone who could cope with ambiguity in working through ones own and others intentions. For someone who was able to observe well enough to notice pattern instead of frantically reorganizing data to fit their pre-existing paradigm?
Perhaps for someone who liked to read and to learn. Who had been exposed to a number of different theories and paradigms. To have some sense in things that can vary (being open to develop a shared conception) and some sense in commonality (some grip on the way things are).
Have you ever been given therapy by someone who trained in something else at a community college for three years then did a few week or weekend workshop course in how to give therapy?
I didn't use to have all the... stereotypes? judgements? associated with this. No. I had to waste several years of my life learning the hard way.
Posted by baseball55 on March 12, 2014, at 20:04:00
In reply to Re: ot, posted by alexandra_k on March 11, 2014, at 22:01:46
> Have you ever been given therapy by someone who trained in something else at a community college for three years then did a few week or weekend workshop course in how to give therapy?
Well, no. In the US, therapists need to be licensed and have at least a master's degree. My p-doc (with whom I did therapy for several years) was highly educated and intellectually engaged, though tried to keep me from over-intellectualizing, since that was a big problem in my relationships. He didn't do CBT kind of stuff (which I hate), but open-ended dynamic therapy.If all you can get is CBT, that must be so frustrating. I find CBT perfectly useless. Do they have dynamic psychotherapy in NZ? You might benefit from that -- although, in dynamic therapy, developing emotional connection to the therapist is one of the main goals. I don't know how open you are to that.
Posted by alexandra_k on March 13, 2014, at 5:57:10
In reply to Re: ot, posted by baseball55 on March 12, 2014, at 20:04:00
Psychodynamic typically means 'I found something I can call myself that isn't qualification restricted'.
It is because they don't offer anything longer term. So none of it is about getting to know each other or developing shared understanding. Or whatever.
ambulance at the bottom of the... whatever. Strategy.
I really don't feel so good. About the lab. It reminds me of the gym. It was fairly terrifying when I started. In an awful anxious way. Heart pounding. So loud its hard to focus on other things. Only thing that put it right was hours spent. So a lot is handled by unconscious sub routines. Freeing up cognitive resources for other things. For... the things it is supposed to be about.
I don't see that I can make up those hours.
I suppose I could ask for accommodations. I don't know what may be possible. Extra time to practice. A quiet space to do the writing up part at the end.
I feel like if I need to ask for accommodations then I'm screwed. Where will it stop? At which point do just draw the line and be like no... you just aren't any good at this.
the other people in the lab... the noise... overwhelmed.
I wonder if ill get to raise any of this . Probably wont be time cause there will be a plan. An agenda. Even if I did... it will only hurt to play lets spot the cognitive distortion.
I should get my thyroid hormones checked.
Posted by Dinah Seeks Support on March 13, 2014, at 7:41:56
In reply to Re: ot, posted by alexandra_k on March 13, 2014, at 5:57:10
I'm sorry you're not feeling well.
(I tried to get in touch with you at the old email address I had for you, but I'm not sure if it works.)
Posted by alexandra_k on March 14, 2014, at 3:23:39
In reply to Re: ot » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah Seeks Support on March 13, 2014, at 7:41:56
Hi. I checked my email after reading your post and I did get your message, thanks. I'm feeling a bit better today. Managed to reconnect to some old friends which was nice. And class went better today. Have stuff that needs to be memorised and I know I can do that. How are you holding up?
Posted by alexandra_k on March 21, 2014, at 17:37:40
In reply to Re: ot, posted by alexandra_k on March 14, 2014, at 3:23:39
i asked about seeing the doc, again. she got someone to pass on a message that she didn't think it would be good to look at medication since i'm doing well. or somesuch. i went to the appointment with ot this week... only to find that she was off sick. someone else tried to contact me, to be fair. but, still. i guess i was thinking that this week was our last week, anyway. last week nearly was... after it was made clear that short term was all there was and that she wasn't prepared to listen to / try and understand / relate to me, at all. rather... i should fill out forms and then she can do her categorization thing and... i give up. really. i am angry. and i am hurt. but there is nothing that can be done about it. and i got to thinking (when i miss the better health care i got in aussie and the us): the more i have the less others have. the more i have the worse off those... worst off are. and so... there it is.
i suppose i am going well. alright. just keep on keeping on. things are going well, really. i was just trying to get supports in place for when the inevitable storm rolls by next year... but, well, they've made it clear. they'll pick up the pieces of the shipwreck - if it comes to that. you know, take me to court if i need that. whatever. it is better for me to minimise the amount of time i spend dealing with... whatever.
Posted by alexandra_k on March 31, 2014, at 5:52:51
In reply to Re: i think i won't go back, posted by alexandra_k on March 21, 2014, at 17:37:40
well... she emailed me. after being sick. so i emailed her back. why? to give her another chance. when i'm sick... i'm cranky etc. wouldn't want to be held to it. sickness aside i know it often takes me some time alone for things to sink in... i wonder if she can see me as more of a person and less of a stereotype next time? i'm not counting on it... but i'll give her the chance...
i can't tell if i'm being stupid or what.
only one way to find out, i guess. p-doc won't see me... i... don't know what to say... a lot depends on why... but i'll never know... i feel sad... nobody will / can see me... and there it is....
Posted by alexandra_k on April 2, 2014, at 18:53:05
In reply to Re: i think i won't go back, posted by alexandra_k on March 31, 2014, at 5:52:51
well that's that. i started talking about inter-personal stuff... which she didn't follow along so well... that whole... hating on me thing that people do... the whole judgy thing... then she wanted to give me a good educating about arousal levels... and because i didn't feel like playing this game of making her feel knowledgeable and so on...
anyway... whatever. foiled, once again, by idiots.
you really must be an idiot to work for (to want to work for) the public mental health system in nz. immigration purposes excepted. and... uh... the odd p-doc... doing the odd thing... the odd person, to be fair... for whatever their reasons... the odd exception... which is what gets me all optimistic. but always: foiled by idiots.
not entirely sure where to. i could write to the doc, i guess. snail mail... what's she gonna do? doing anything will only piss off her... uh, the... team. so... foiled by idiots and there it is.
i...
hate people. rather a lot.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 2, 2014, at 18:59:00
In reply to Re: i think i won't go back, posted by alexandra_k on March 31, 2014, at 5:52:51
she thinks the problem is that i want something long term - but the service doesn't provide that.
but that is wrong: the service does of course provide long term. they do that for all the borderlines. because the borderlines have called them: you have to do that or you spend so very much more on all their self harm / hospital requirements.
that's how come borderline got to be such a problem here. it was the answer to the question: what do i need to do in order to get a little help around here?
so, uh, why is it that she is happy with all the borderline people being seen long term - but not me? oh... because all those borderlines are so very much better than me at either being dumb (oh yes please teach me that skill again because i forgot it the last 9 times you lectured me for 30 minutes on it) OR because they are so very much better than me at playing dumb. i suspect a whole lot more of the latter, actually.
the stuff i said about her seeing me as a person instead of giving me little standard speeches that she has on this and that... well... she was too dumb to understand it. the main problem is that she is too dumb to understand that just because she can't work with me other people might be able to. just like the last idiot i saw... she couldn't help me (i wouldnt 'help her) therefore she would make it be the case that nobody would.
why is the service full of... people who have worse pathology than most of the consumers
?
i hate people
Posted by alexandra_k on April 2, 2014, at 23:19:01
In reply to Re: i think i won't go back, posted by alexandra_k on April 2, 2014, at 18:59:00
i could write a letter to p-doc. i think i can find her first name somewhere...
i could email the guy... and he might pass it onto her... discuss it in a team meeting or whatever. i guess if i sent a letter it would get discussed in a team meeting, too...
i basically don't click with him... and he is meant to be my keyworker. he is all busy being impressed at my ability to vocalise and he is all yes and nodding along... but he fails the comprehension checks pretty badly... and he says he'll do things and he doesn't do them without an awful lot of prodding...
and i basically don't click with her... because she's... exhausted, i guess. she doesn't like / empathise with me at all, really. she simply doesn't get my pov. she bristles a lot at the things that upset me... in other words... i can't talk to her about anything that i'm actually upset / distressed about. it needs to be well processed before it gets to her. which makes her... more of a liability. if that makes sense. she's tryign to keep me at arms length with her not relating to me as a person... fend me off with forms and little speels (not like max, mind) on arousal levels and such.
i don't quite know what to say in the letter. that i don't click with these people. try again? try some other people? i don't know that that can be done. and even if it could be done what makes me think that other people would work out better. the KIND of people who want to do that kind of job who want to work with typical patient... are not the kind of people who want a bar of me... i don't know what to do.
worst thing is that she's got a bunch of stuff all up in her head about what went wrong. stuff that makes it out to be my fault. my unreasonable expectations etc. you know, so her ego can deal. these are stories that she tells to herself.... and these are stories that she'll no doubt tell to others (at length). her ego will require that... people believe her stories. that people shun me. that people not have anything to do with me... because if it turned out that some other person could work well with me / help me then her ego couldn't deal with that.
pretty sure i've been here before...
why is it that the people who i need the most protection from... are mostly appointed to help me? whose bright f*ck*ng idea that one was...
Posted by alexandra_k on April 3, 2014, at 16:50:27
In reply to Re: don't know what to do, posted by alexandra_k on April 2, 2014, at 23:19:01
so apparently i requested to be discharged yesterday, so they are going with that.
not entirely sure what to do with myself.
why do i get these little hints of desire to seek out human contact?
never works out well.
Posted by baseball55 on April 3, 2014, at 19:50:25
In reply to Re: don't know what to do, posted by alexandra_k on April 3, 2014, at 16:50:27
Alex - I don't mean to be critical, but it seems you feel negative about most anyone you see for mental health issues? Could it be that you approach the process with low expectations and look for weaknesses that confirm your low expectations?
I ask because therapy of any sort won't work without a basic level of trust. If you start from a distrusting position, everything will go downhill from there.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 3, 2014, at 22:40:52
In reply to Re: don't know what to do, posted by baseball55 on April 3, 2014, at 19:50:25
i suppose that could be it. or... it could be that most people are idiots. i think it is more of the latter, actually.
i'm dealing with the public mental health service in new zealand. we manage to spend... less per head of population than... any other developed nation. or somesuch. we do it by focusing a little more than most on *most people* and the *cheaper* healthcare options affecting them.
of course... a lot of savings in healthcare can be made by the above policy. it saves wasting a lot of money on latest and greatest patiented med (only latest and greatest because newest and longer term outcome study information presently unavailable). in some instances things work out well...
but in other instances... mental health... well... it is very much and ambulance at the bottom of the... something. strategy. therapy is next to non-existant. p-docs definately don't get to in the public service. not even so much clinical psychologists anymore. it's being outsourced to... mental health nurses. or 'keyworkers' (what qualification do you need for that, i wonder' or... whatever. weekend workshop counsellors. occupational therapists. not sure what that is in the US. here it is a degree program. it is these days. that place across the bridge. clinicians simply... can't repeat back to me accurately what they just heard me say. basic comprehension is severely limited. empathy - ability to predict how i would likely feel or think about some situation i describe to them is similarly lacking...
it is just hopeless. i... don't know what to say.
i give up. on them. i surely do. i won't rule out psychiatry as a future option for myself (should i be lucky enough to get into med blah blah blah). but working for the public system here sure as sh*t won't be something i want to do. why? not because of the consumers... but because of the supposed health 'professionals'... they are highest maintenence of all. I... don't know what to say...
Posted by alexandra_k on April 5, 2014, at 16:07:16
In reply to Re: don't know what to do, posted by alexandra_k on April 3, 2014, at 22:40:52
i emailed my keyworker, you see. you know, the one who was always SO VERY HAPPY to see me. He was all, like, totally impressed that I was verbal, or something. I said that I wasn't a good fit to work with him or the OT... No fault... Just not good fit. Said that I felt I was able to relate to the doc more (e.g., that she was able to summarize back accurately what she just heard me say, form reasonable inferences about how I'd likely feel / what I'd likely think about what I just said, and even manage to demonstrate good inter-personal boundaries with her not taking things defensively and blaming me). If they could refer me on to someone I might be better suited to working with, I'd be grateful..
His response was: That they were going to discharge me from the service. Like what I asked my OT to do.
My response:
That was what OT heard me say? Interesting...
I have empathy. I know what's going on. They are doing the whole defensive thing. They are taking it as a personal insult that I don't want to work with either of them and are responding by 'remembering' a bunch of stuff that serves their ego. Because they can't cope. They can't even cope well enough to know when something is beyond their coping. They can't / won't refer me on... Because their ego can't handle that. I've been here before... He couldn't even respond to my actual email. Instead he responds to what someone told him they heard me say. In spite of my very first point. Did I not make myself sufficiently clear? I'm shocked. I mean... How could he possibly be so quick to discharge me when he was SO VERY HAPPY TO SEE me and all. Wait... Was he SO VERY HAPPY because really he wasn't? For reals? No... I never would have guessed... Given that I'm lacking in empathy and all...
All this is because... I simply can't find it in me to act sufficiently impressed at the information that OT managed to pick up off her weekend course or whatever it was that she did. You know, after she took about as much interest in her degree as people over the bridge tend to take it in. Spending hours chatting to their friends about lunch... Because they can't really find it in them to give very much of a sh*t... So they can groan at their lecturers for being big meanie a-holes for trying to get them to read a bit more and perhaps deepen their understanding and... You know... Actually have enough information behind them to be able to employ that effectively in the actual assistance of persons one day. I'm supposed to be all like 'oh, no I know nothing about arousal levels. It never occurred to me that I might want to avoid coffee in the evenings and do soothing stuff when I'm trying to calm down. I mean... I did DBT and I've done however many undergraduate and graduate courses in Psychology... I mean... I've done more reading on the subject (textbooks and peer reviewed academic journals) as a hobby interest in my spare time than she's probably done in the whole of her degree...
All I asked was to be able to relate to a person. But they can't do that. Personally... I think it's because their personhood is severely limited / lacking.
Who's the sick one again? Who'se supposed to be looking after who? Who gets paid... Who has the power... F*ck*ng farce.
And millions are probably saved... By the 2/3 or so of the people who won't have f*ck*ng anything to do with the public mental health service in this country. For obvious reasons. Their strategy seems to be to employ the most obnoxious, the dumbest, the most severely f*ck*d up individuals they possibly can... Advertise 'just ask for help. Just ASK'. Any reasonable person will shudder... It isn't malevolence. Exactly. Incompetence... Borderline. Not enough for fault. But mental health is so very much easier than most to scare people off... Just show sufficient insensitivity of confidentiality or or the more sensitive aspects of a person's life... Easy. I mean... Suicide goes up (we are one of the highest in the world, I believe). But the savings on hospitalisations and help obviously makes that worthwhile.
I am very f*ck*ng angry.
I feel sick.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 5, 2014, at 16:31:39
In reply to Re: don't know what to do, posted by alexandra_k on April 5, 2014, at 16:07:16
they put the clinic on one of the main roads in one of the upmarket neighbourhoods. to be fair, i'm not sure whether it was there before it got all gentrified... but it is the main mental health clinic for the city center and the two affluent suburbs either side... and instead of locating it somewhere properly central in the city center it is on a central corner of one of the affluent suburbs.
it's great. during the day it's all stepford wife-y. lots of women (or guys - very 'it's cool to be gay' in that neighbourhood) in gym gear pushing prams... taking their kids to 'lets see how noisy we can make the public library ' no, sorry the 'leys institute' because 'public library' didn't sound poncy enough... and so..
and then ya got the homeless and / or mentally ill thrown in there, too. i wonder if you can spot who those people are? amongst the lululemon. or the botique bridal shops.
keeping it real, y'all.
enough to scare off the desperate housewives?
clearly. stigma. on their side. workin' it.
the receptionist is... old... or intellectually handicapped... or something. she's obviously trying / doing her best... which makes things hard... but she's pretty hopeless. she can't keep track of what's going on with people arriving and her letting the person they are here to see know that the person has arrived. she can't keep track of meetings that people are in or out of...
what happens is person arrives... person acts agitated (covertly threatening violence). person gets seen quickly. lots of bustle behind the scenes. Very Important Job they are doing seeing Very Sick / Disturbed people. Ambulence strategy... If you arrive... Are polite... Are patient... They won't even inform the person you are there to see them. You need to be all agigated... So they feel important. So you appear salient. There's a nice big sign on the door about how 'violence will not be tolerated'. Just to prime people to the thought of it as they make their way in... Security outside the entrance... That could even be linked up to the clinicians directly... Wouldn't be hard... Then receptionist is there solely to piss off people who aren't sick enough.
I remember this... Why it was so very rewarding to kick the doors in the hospital. The staff got a real kick out of it. I could tell. Something Happened. Registrar got called. Then he didn't really want to bother the P-Doc... What to do?? He ended up going with sectioning me... Because he coudlnt' let me leave at 2 in the morning. Not like that. Shortest section time was 24 hours... My whole aim was to not get summarily discharged 9am the following day. Brilliant. Win win. Why it was that that guy picked up the pool table and threw it that one day. The agitation... The people dead in side. Not talking about the patients.
It would wear you out. Having to work with such idiots all day... Who would / could be drawn to such a field?
The world is... Not a very nice place. Not a very nice place at all.
Looking after people... Properly...
Huh.
I fear that in time... I'm becoming only more averse to people. Exposure... Isn't helping. Since quitting smoking... SInce whatever all that stuff was that got me to the point where I quit... I... It does concern me a bit... I... There isn't really any person that I like particularly. There are people who are okay in some respects.. But overall... People repulse me. I repulse myself too, don't get me wrong. But I think I've stopped f*ck*ng over myself at least. Or if I act selfishly... I tend not to get hurt as a by-product...
Posted by alexandra_k on April 5, 2014, at 16:37:05
In reply to Re: don't know what to do, posted by alexandra_k on April 5, 2014, at 16:31:39
this is the trouble with getting old... people reckon they want to retain their cognitive function but honestly i don't see why. you really want all your wits about you while you are looked after by idiots?
how much fun was your childhood? when you didn't have the power to get your way? when you had to rely on other people to see what you need and respond accordingly? most people will not see anything that is different from them. my mother was an extreme example: she would bundle me up with clothes because she felt cold. i'm learning... she wasn't an extreme example at all. that's just f*ck*ng typical. that is most people. most people treat you as an extension of themself. they can't see anythign beyond their f*ck*ng self.
insofar as you are different...
people will not face up to it. or if they see it... they need to kill it.
'good social skills' is about manipulating other people to get what you need. i do not have.
i think i can see other people... better than most people can. maybe that is why i don't like other people more than others. is that why?
i feel sad.
Posted by Willful on April 5, 2014, at 20:07:16
In reply to Re: don't know what to do, posted by alexandra_k on April 5, 2014, at 16:37:05
Self-questioning is a virtue, Alex. You do need to question whether everything and everyone in the world is useless, stupid, or unable to see beyond themselves.
You sometimes, maybe rarely, but sometimes, give lip service to questioning yourself-- but I don't see you doing it.
I can promise you that you are just like the people you have so much contempt and dislike for and of-- you don't see yourself that way perhaps-- you don't see yourself as others would see you, obviously. But you are quite like them. We all are. You might try to imagine what it would be like to try to be open and caring of someone as bitter and disdainful as you, and as convinced of their superiority.
I'm sure it's very difficult and not a rewarding experience.
Even if you are quite intelligent, you just aren't that different from other people. Even less intelligent people are able to think, to interpret and to understand others. They're able to make their way through the world quite competently-- probably more competently than you do. And this is a talent and a skill not to be undervalued. Those who understand the way of the world, and turn it into a good companion and known territory are not few and far between. Those who do it well are truly lucky.
Life is not so easy for anyone. Nothing comes without risk and aspiration-- even such aspiration as you utterly despise.
What you don't understand is that it really hurts you so much-- as I can see--to be without resources to reach out in a way that might help you.
Those of us who are less gifted with these qualities that stand so many people in good stead may fail to appreciate what we are lacking. The sooner we do, though, the better chance in life we have.
Posted by baseball55 on April 5, 2014, at 20:43:09
In reply to Re: don't know what to do, posted by alexandra_k on April 5, 2014, at 16:37:05
> 'good social skills' is about manipulating other people to get what you need. i do not have.Actually, this isn't true Alex and the fact that you see it this way makes, I think, your life harder. Good social skills is about having empathy, putting yourself in other people's shoes, trying to see the best in people, doing for others as you would have them do for you.
Being compassionate, understanding, looking clearly at oneself and one's own impact on people.You are so hostile and contemptuous of the mental health workers. Mental health workers, whatever their flaws and limitations, tend to be fairly sensitive to interpersonal relationships. So it's most likely that they feel very keenly your contempt. And try to diffuse it, which you see as patronizing, etc.
I hope you can get a referral to someone you feel okay about working with, who is not an "idiot."
But here's how I react to your posts. I spent four years going in and out of psych hospitals, in therapy, etc.. I loved almost every treater I met and had great respect for them. I met a woman a few years ago in AA. Whenever I talked to her, she would talk about interactions she had with people, whom she described as a**holes, idiots, etc. I finally said to her - how is it that you meet these a**holes all the time, and I never do? Do you think it might have something to do with you?
Posted by Dinah on April 7, 2014, at 4:17:07
In reply to Re: don't know what to do, posted by baseball55 on April 5, 2014, at 20:43:09
I don't much like many mental health professionals either. My therapist always wondered why I stuck it out with him when I usually cut and run within a few sessions.
I don't really feel anger or contempt towards most of them. Except for the one whose additional authorized information consisted of the fact that my therapist wasn't coming back, and if it were her being abandoned like that she'd want to curl up in a hole and die. And then said she was glad she had the chance to meet me. I think I may hate her. She ought not have called me in with *that* additional information. I felt quite kindly to her when she just told me he wasn't dying.
And biofeedback guy I didn't like at all. He thought he was Dr. Phil, and was annoyed when all my indicators went nuts when he walked in the room. Well really... It's not bad enough that he terrified me, he had to tell me off for being terrified?
The rest I just didn't much like. Therapy is kind of intimate. It's not like a regular doctor. I only like at best half of my regular doctors and I'm anxious around even the ones I like. But that's ok. I don't need to like them or to feel comfortable with them. Mental health stuff is different.
When I was feeling particularly rotten lately I called one of the people my therapist had *personally* recommended should something happen to him. But I was glad he was out of town for a few weeks. I doubt I'd have liked him even as a therapist to get over therapy. Most therapists are so d*mn judgmental. Very few have the light nonjudgmental tone my therapist took. He might have never studied DBT but he sure had some of the best characteristics of holding acceptance and the need for change in balance.
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