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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by sassyfrancesca on April 15, 2008, at 13:30:30
I hate to lie, but felt I needed to do it to protect myself (been in love with him for 5 years; too much stuff to go into here).
We both went to the American Counseling Association's convention, and were both alone (I didn't know where he was staying), and didn't call him until the end of the convention. I try to keep my own boundaries, not wanting to be hurt.
He said he was looking for me at the dance for a half an hour, and also looking for me on the plane. He said he saw me FIVE different times but didn't speak (he follows SOME ethics, LOL); he thought I was angry with him, and that is why I didn't acknowledge him; I didn't SEE him!
Then he tells me he would have "danced with me"......someone explain how it wouldn't be okay to say hello but it WOULD be okay to DANCE with a client?!
What did I lie about? He said "Have I ever come on to you, or made you think I was available?" When this comes to an end (I had never mentioned an "end"), I don't want you to have to say: "You led me on you b*****d."
So, is he feeling guilty, and wanting me to help him feel better by saying he HASN'T done.....what he (and I know) he HAS done?
He wants me to collude with him. I am not ready to leave him, and when I am he will hear my speech I have had for a long time.
Basically....how much I resent him "having his cake and eating it too." He is married....I cannot help loving him, but I can (and have) managed to not cross any boundaries......
crazy-making behavior for sure.
Sassy
I hope no one will criticize me, but if anyone has been where I have, and can understand this insanity, some support would be lovely.
Posted by Happyflower on April 15, 2008, at 19:48:49
In reply to I LIED to my T...Very Bizarre Situation, posted by sassyfrancesca on April 15, 2008, at 13:30:30
Hi Sassy gurl,
I hate that this has caused you so much torment, your T should feel guilty, because he is.
You have told me a lot of what has gone on, and your T has crossed numerous boundaries, and what I hate about it is, that I feel like it will hurt you so badly in the end. I know it feels exciting, because you love him, but he is hurting you in unbelievable ways.
My T didn't cross boundaries the ways yours has, but the hurt I feel because of it, well I am not sure if I will ever be able to let it go. It hurts equal to the parental abuse I received as a kid.What sucks, is that he probably does have feelings for you, I am sure of it from what you have told me, but he is married and he will probably protect his life first, his job and his marriage before he will give it all up to be with you. Even if he wishes he could be with you, I have a feeling he will protect himself first.
I choose not to sue my T, because it won't help me any, and cost a fortune and time away from my life. You situation, there is NO doubt what he has done has crossed several boundaries with you, and he drags you along with his fantasies.
I really feel so sad for what he has done to you, your spirit. You deserve so much better as a T, and as a life companion.
I still love my old T, but I have lost all respect for him for what he did to me, and I feel I deserve much better than he can give me, as a T, or anything else for that matter.
I just hate it when clients get hurt because of T's. (((((((sassy))))))) Take care of yourself, doll.
Posted by sassyfrancesca on April 16, 2008, at 8:17:29
In reply to Re: I LIED to my T...Very Bizarre Situation » sassyfrancesca, posted by Happyflower on April 15, 2008, at 19:48:49
> Hi Sassy gurl,...Hi, "twin"
>
> I hate that this has caused you so much torment, your T should feel guilty, because he is. I believe he DOES feel guilty, that is why he said what he did. I also know i am colluding with his little game.
>
> You have told me a lot of what has gone on, and your T has crossed numerous boundaries, and what I hate about it is, that I feel like it will hurt you so badly in the end. I know it feels exciting, because you love him, but he is hurting you in unbelievable ways. You know it.> My T didn't cross boundaries the ways yours has, but the hurt I feel because of it, well I am not sure if I will ever be able to let it go. It hurts equal to the parental abuse I received as a kid.
I understand that, too....that was my experience...abused as a child and then in 31 years of marriage, and then......abused by a church and kicked out. Does the abandonment ever cease!!??
>
> What sucks, is that he probably does have feelings for you, Yes, i believe he IS in love with me; years ago, he said: "Isn't it enough that I LOVE you??!!"I am sure of it from what you have told me, but he is married and he will probably protect his life first, his job and his marriage before he will give it all up to be with you. Even if he wishes he could be with you, I have a feeling he will protect himself first. Of course. Oh....he also had said: "You are just trying to make me lose my license." What a hoot. I have done NOTHING...NOTHING...he has done it ALL.
>
> I choose not to sue my T, because it won't help me any, and cost a fortune and time away from my life. I agree...he deserves it, but you deserve to not be put through any more pain.You situation, there is NO doubt what he has done has crossed several boundaries with you, and he drags you along with his fantasies. Oh, yes...he is safe to do that.
> I really feel so sad for what he has done to you, your spirit. You deserve so much better as a T, and as a life companion. Thankyou my dear friend. If I could only find another man to love, but it has been 3 years of being alone and I have found no one yet.
> I still love my old T, but I have lost all respect for him for what he did to me, and I feel I deserve much better than he can give me, as a T, or anything else for that matter. You are right.
> I just hate it when clients get hurt because of T's. (((((((sassy))))))) Take care of yourself, doll.
Thank you my dear sweet "twin"
Did I tell you there is a website for people like us? It is a yahoo site: "A Most Heartbreaking Love" Some great understanding and support there.
Love and hugs, Sassy
Posted by Happyflower on April 16, 2008, at 9:40:42
In reply to Re: I LIED to my T...Very Bizarre Situation, posted by sassyfrancesca on April 16, 2008, at 8:17:29
Hey Sassy,
(((((((twin))))))))))I will have to check out that site...
I have a feeling that your T is finally seeing the implications of what he has done and what it will mean to his future whether or not he will be with you. He got himself in a pickle that is for sure. But it is all his fault.
He could have put a stop to this a long time ago with you,but he lead you on. What I hate about this the most is what it has done to you and will do to you. It isn't fair to you. Ally, I wish the best for you, you deserve it.
Posted by Dinah on April 16, 2008, at 19:13:27
In reply to I LIED to my T...Very Bizarre Situation, posted by sassyfrancesca on April 15, 2008, at 13:30:30
Well, what I generally say in any situation is that it's best not to lie to your therapist. It's nice to want to protect him, but he really can't properly do his job if you're trying to take care of him.
At least that's what my therapist says, since I have a fair amount of caretaking impulses myself.
You don't need to leave him. But as long as he's your therapist isn't it best to be honest with him? And let him take care of his own feelings? Otherwise there's really no point in paying him.
And really this is a good topic for therapy, don't you think?
Posted by sassyfrancesca on April 17, 2008, at 7:59:16
In reply to Re: I LIED to my T...Very Bizarre Situation » sassyfrancesca, posted by Dinah on April 16, 2008, at 19:13:27
Hi, Dinah: i wasn't lying to protect HIM.....but MYSELF....I didn't know what he might do (abandoment?) if I told him the truth...which, by the way....He already KNOWS...........I've never lied to him before...unfortunately we are in a personal relationship, so of course that changes everything/the dynamics.
Yes, great topic.
Thanks, Dinah....sassy
Posted by Dinah on April 17, 2008, at 14:53:35
In reply to Re: I LIED to my T...Very Bizarre Situation, posted by sassyfrancesca on April 17, 2008, at 7:59:16
Maybe it changes everything if you're also in a personal relationship.
But...
While total honesty might not be the best policy for a personal relationship, he *is* still your therapist. And it doesn't sound as if he's willing to have only a personal relationship with you, from what I understand you as saying, which might be all wrong.
Can you stick a toe in to being honest about this? If he already knows, he isn't likely to terminate you. And you can always back off if it looks like it's going badly. I do that sometimes. Sort of "What would you do if I answered you xxxx". Then if he said anything like "I'd have to terminate you" you could say "Well then I'm darn glad I don't have to answer it that way."
A lot of times I find out I'm worrying about nothing.
It must be hard to have a personal as well as therapeutic relationship. What you want a beau to know about you and what you want a therapist to know about you are not always the same. Plus there's more reciprocity in a personal relationship.
I struggle with this sometimes, when I know my therapist is under a lot of stress with his "real" life. I care about him so much, and sometimes I want to not burden him with my issues or to take care of him in some way.
But I guess it depends on which relationship is predominant. My therapist and I have a mutually caring relationship, but it's not a friendship. I don't pay friends in dollars. I "pay" them through the reciprocal give and take of a relationship.
I have to remind myself that when I write him a check each week, that's my part of taking care of him, and it separates a purely personal from a professional relationship. And then I have to respect him enough as a professional to let him be my therapist. Which means being honest with him unless being honest would actually bring on termination. Fortunately that's never come up, but I've been clear I'd consider that the same as an agreement entered to under duress, and would lie if I had to. It sure would be hard to keep positive feelings about him, though, if he forced me to lie in order to not have him abandon me.
Posted by sassyfrancesca on April 17, 2008, at 15:33:34
In reply to Re: I LIED to my T...Very Bizarre Situation, posted by Dinah on April 17, 2008, at 14:53:35
> Hi, Dinah...I really appreciate the input. I have been dealing with so much for so long with him (t).
Of course it is very confusing.
I think what happened was that he was feeling guilty about his feelings (and looking for me at the conference dance, etc), and was trying to feel better/assuage is conscience.
Maybe it changes everything if you're also in a personal relationship.
>
> But...
>
> While total honesty might not be the best policy for a personal relationship, he *is* still your therapist. And it doesn't sound as if he's willing to have only a personal relationship with you, from what I understand you as saying, which might be all wrong.He did say awhile ago: "If I were not married, I would go for it, but I would have to stop being your therapist." I think he stopped that a long time ago, although he is amazingly helpful with anything I do bring up.
>
> Can you stick a toe in to being honest about this? Yes, I can..and willIf he already knows, he isn't likely to terminate you.
He told me: "My colleagues would tell me to run fast and far, but I will never abandon you." I believe that, but since then......things have gotten a little "heavier"---more intense, etc....he keeps revealing more (which he should not).
And you can always back off if it looks like it's going badly. Yes, like poking at a sore tooth, LOl, LOL
I do that sometimes. Sort of "What would you do if I answered you xxxx". Then if he said anything like "I'd have to terminate you" you could say "Well then I'm darn glad I don't have to answer it that way."
Excellent.
>
> A lot of times I find out I'm worrying about nothing. I do that too.
>
> It must be hard to have a personal as well as therapeutic relationship. Absolutely! Crazy-making time!What you want a beau to know about you and what you want a therapist to know about you are not always the same. Plus there's more reciprocity in a personal relationship.
He has shared an amazing amount of information.....abused as a child (molested once); his father's recent death, what his mother is like; very sweet and loving.....things about his siblings....and the most shocking thing of all to me.....he said he didn't see himself as someone that someone else (like me) would be interested in (he IS an attractive man) ...we did discuss it, too.
>
> I struggle with this sometimes, when I know my therapist is under a lot of stress with his "real" life. I care about him so much, and sometimes I want to not burden him with my issues or to take care of him in some way.I understand, and that is when things aren't right; we aren't supposed to take care of Their needs (but as women, we are nurturers...usually).
>
> But I guess it depends on which relationship is predominant. My therapist and I have a mutually caring relationship, but it's not a friendship. I don't pay friends in dollars. I "pay" them through the reciprocal give and take of a relationship.That is something all of my friends are so upset about; that I still pay him (he is enjoying our relationship as much as I am); getting together for mutual satisfaction, as it were.....He even said once...."I should pay you."
The reason I went to him is long over (4 years), but I stayed with him for support (went to him for spiritual abuse stuff; my church of 31 years voted me out of membership, because I got a divorce after 31 years of abuse...he is an expert in that field (spiritual abuse).
>
> I have to remind myself that when I write him a check each week, that's my part of taking care of him, and it separates a purely personal from a professional relationship. And then I have to respect him enough as a professional to let him be my therapist. Which means being honest with him unless being honest would actually bring on termination. Fortunately that's never come up, but I've been clear I'd consider that the same as an agreement entered to under duress, and would lie if I had to. It sure would be hard to keep positive feelings about him, though, if he forced me to lie in order to not have him abandon me.I understand. I don't believe for a minute he was threatening abandonment, I just didn't know what might happen next, and thought it might be negative or scary, so this Sunday evening I will discuss it. As he has said, the client is the only one who knows when it is time to go.
Hugs, Alice
Posted by Dinah on April 17, 2008, at 16:48:22
In reply to Re: I LIED to my T...Very Bizarre Situation, posted by sassyfrancesca on April 17, 2008, at 15:33:34
I'm glad you feel safe enough with him. It's a very nice feeling. :)
Posted by Kath on April 18, 2008, at 22:50:00
In reply to I LIED to my T...Very Bizarre Situation, posted by sassyfrancesca on April 15, 2008, at 13:30:30
Hi - sorry I am too tired to read anything but your first post.
I think you are doing everything right.
I really questions your therapist's behaviour??
Jeez. It seems like there were various things that he said that don't seem to be within professional behaviour.
Please know that you didn't do anything wrong.
love, Kath
Posted by Dinah on April 26, 2008, at 15:42:15
In reply to Re: I LIED to my T...Very Bizarre Situation, posted by sassyfrancesca on April 17, 2008, at 15:33:34
I generally find that I am very happy I screwed up the courage to be honest with my therapist.
This is the end of the thread.
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