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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by oceanlover on January 20, 2008, at 16:34:49
Hi everyone. I wanted to get some opinions on this. I have been in therapy with the same therapist for about 5 years. Substance abuse was always an issue, except I've been sober for the last 15 months. I just relapsed, and now my therapist will not work with me or even speak to me until I am sober 30 days. All he gave me was a referral to a therapist I can't afford and he knows it (out of a job and not on my insurance). I think this is unfair, as it was just a one time relapse and I did have 15 months sobriety. What do you think about this?
Posted by oceanlover on January 20, 2008, at 16:42:14
In reply to therapist terminating me for 30 days, posted by oceanlover on January 20, 2008, at 16:34:49
I forgot to add that I was at the height of my depression and suicidal tendencies. and my therapist knew this.
Posted by Dinah on January 20, 2008, at 16:48:46
In reply to therapist terminating me for 30 days, posted by oceanlover on January 20, 2008, at 16:34:49
I've heard of this technique being applied, but generally when a therapist is out of other options. It seems like it's an unusual step in the circumstances you described. But obviously I don't know all that's gone on or what conversations you've had about it.
Did the relapse directly involve therapy itself? Were you impaired at a therapy session? Had your therapist informed you of the consequences?
Posted by oceanlover on January 20, 2008, at 16:50:37
In reply to Re: therapist terminating me for 30 days » oceanlover, posted by Dinah on January 20, 2008, at 16:48:46
> I've heard of this technique being applied, but generally when a therapist is out of other options. It seems like it's an unusual step in the circumstances you described. But obviously I don't know all that's gone on or what conversations you've had about it.
>
> Did the relapse directly involve therapy itself? Were you impaired at a therapy session? Had your therapist informed you of the consequences?
No, the relapse did not involve therapy directly. I was just so depressed that it was drink or die. I have been impaired in therapy but not for the last 15 months. No, he hadn't informed me of the consequences. Thanks for responding. I'm having a hard time.
Posted by raisinb on January 20, 2008, at 17:04:30
In reply to therapist terminating me for 30 days, posted by oceanlover on January 20, 2008, at 16:34:49
That is really tough. Without knowing the circumstances, it's hard to say what was going on. I have heard of therapists using such tactics, especially in behaviorally-oriented therapies like DBT. Nevertheless, it might make me feel awfully manipulated.
Had he been frustrated or worried about your substance abuse in the past? Did he feel that sobriety was absolutely necessary for your progress?
It seems like giving you a 30-day "vacation" should have been a last resort on his part, not something that came out of the blue or that was used arbitrarily.
Posted by Dinah on January 20, 2008, at 17:05:41
In reply to Re: therapist terminating me for 30 days, posted by oceanlover on January 20, 2008, at 16:50:37
And of course you can't talk to him about it, because he won't speak to you. :(
My therapist has used our relationship only as a hypothetical question, which led to such a negative and mulish reaction that he immediately assured me he would never use our relationship as punishment or reward.
I'm sorry yours is doing that. I'm sure I'd be angry and hurt in that situation. I wish there were more I could say.
I don't think it's unheard of in the therapeutic community, although it's surprising to me he didn't tell you about the consequences first.
Posted by zazenducke on January 20, 2008, at 17:11:04
In reply to therapist terminating me for 30 days, posted by oceanlover on January 20, 2008, at 16:34:49
> Hi everyone. I wanted to get some opinions on this. I have been in therapy with the same therapist for about 5 years. Substance abuse was always an issue, except I've been sober for the last 15 months. I just relapsed, and now my therapist will not work with me or even speak to me until I am sober 30 days. All he gave me was a referral to a therapist I can't afford and he knows it (out of a job and not on my insurance). I think this is unfair, as it was just a one time relapse and I did have 15 months sobriety. What do you think about this?
I think you should stay sober for thirty days
Posted by oceanlover on January 20, 2008, at 17:15:18
In reply to Re: therapist terminating me for 30 days, posted by raisinb on January 20, 2008, at 17:04:30
> That is really tough. Without knowing the circumstances, it's hard to say what was going on. I have heard of therapists using such tactics, especially in behaviorally-oriented therapies like DBT. Nevertheless, it might make me feel awfully manipulated.
>
> Had he been frustrated or worried about your substance abuse in the past? Did he feel that sobriety was absolutely necessary for your progress?
>
> It seems like giving you a 30-day "vacation" should have been a last resort on his part, not something that came out of the blue or that was used arbitrarily.yes, substance abuse was a huge issue for a long time. i would come to therapy in blackouts. Yeah, he thinks it's absolutely necessary that i stay sober or he will not work with me anymore.
Posted by oceanlover on January 20, 2008, at 17:16:04
In reply to Re: therapist terminating me for 30 days » oceanlover, posted by zazenducke on January 20, 2008, at 17:11:04
> > Hi everyone. I wanted to get some opinions on this. I have been in therapy with the same therapist for about 5 years. Substance abuse was always an issue, except I've been sober for the last 15 months. I just relapsed, and now my therapist will not work with me or even speak to me until I am sober 30 days. All he gave me was a referral to a therapist I can't afford and he knows it (out of a job and not on my insurance). I think this is unfair, as it was just a one time relapse and I did have 15 months sobriety. What do you think about this?
>
>
>
> I think you should stay sober for thirty days
>
>gee, i hadn't thought of that...
Posted by Poet on January 20, 2008, at 18:39:25
In reply to therapist terminating me for 30 days, posted by oceanlover on January 20, 2008, at 16:34:49
Hi oceanlover,
Welcome to babble and congratulations on being sober for 15 months before your unfortunate relapse. You said you've been seeing your T for five years, did he ever mention his "30 day rule" before? I know some T's do "tough love" approaches, but to just arbitrarily say come back in 30 days seems very harsh to me.
I'm sorry this happened to you.
Poet
Posted by star008 on January 21, 2008, at 7:44:58
In reply to Re: therapist terminating me for 30 days » oceanlover, posted by Poet on January 20, 2008, at 18:39:25
oceanlover,
I think that 30 days is not fair..At least you could have been warned beforehand. I too would be hurt and angry.. I would feel like a bad kid who was getting punished.. I personally think that it will harm your relationship with him. And will you ever tell him again that you relapsed?? Not likely
It is hard to stay sober when u are feeling so bad and it is harder to stay sober without support. I am sure there is someone you can afford to see who will accept you as you are. I have relapsed quite a few times over the years and I know I frustrated my T but he didn't give up on me or tell me to go away for a month. I don't think I would have gone back if he had.. I know it is terrilbe to find a new T but perhaps you should consider it even if it is just for the 30 days..
Posted by muffled on January 21, 2008, at 11:06:32
In reply to therapist terminating me for 30 days, posted by oceanlover on January 20, 2008, at 16:34:49
Welcome to Babble.
Well hard to say w/o whole story...
But from what you have said....it seems a tad bizarre?
I can't really add to what the others have said.
You have been with this T a long time....can you have a last session, or phone session to discuss why he is doing this?
Sigh. I feel so bad for you. I hope you can get some more sobriety under your belt. Takes awhile to get your brain de-pickled...
Anyhow, welcome, and post away here if it helps.
M
Posted by raisinb on January 22, 2008, at 12:24:24
In reply to Re: therapist terminating me for 30 days, posted by star008 on January 21, 2008, at 7:44:58
For what it's worth, Marsha Linehan in her book on DBT actually recommends doing this when other approaches have failed. It seems like behavior therapists are much less shy about using positive or negative reinforcement to influence behavior, including putting clients on "vacations" or terminating them as a last resort. They don't see it as manipulative or abandoning (though those of us in other types of therapy might feel that way).
A T of psychodynamic or client-centered ilk might not dream of doing this, but it's just a different persuasion.
Ocean, I don't know what was in your T's head or what his approach is, but I don't think he is automatically bad or that you need to look for a new one because he decided to do this. I think you should evaluate what your T has done for you and whether you believe he cares about you and if you can trust him again. If the answer to those things are yes, you can probably believe he did this out of caring.
Posted by sassyfrancesca on February 1, 2008, at 12:38:14
In reply to Re: therapist terminating me for 30 days, posted by oceanlover on January 20, 2008, at 16:42:14
This is terrible. It's called abandonment. Abandonment is UNETHICAL.
I am so sorry, sweetie.
Love, Francesca
P.S. What in the world does he think seeing another therapist will do?!
This is the end of the thread.
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