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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Karen_kay on February 24, 2004, at 11:43:09
In reply to Re: from Ms. Schmidt: therapist self disclosure, posted by Dinah on February 23, 2004, at 14:05:18
I think it's wonderful that you are worried about this. I don't see it as having anything really to do with you and your therapist. I see it as genuine concern. I'm thrilled you are looking out for our best interests. That's quite a wonderful trait you possess. And I'm happy for it. Please, don't stop posting your concerns about this mattter. It makes some of us really concentrate on the issue and evaluate the context in which self-disclosure is made. I truly appreciate it, and I wouldn't want it any other way! Thank you for being so helpful and helping us to evaluate things we never would have before!
Posted by tabitha on February 24, 2004, at 15:45:32
In reply to Re: from Ms. Schmidt: therapist self disclosure » tabitha, posted by Dinah on February 23, 2004, at 16:25:16
I just wondered what kind of discomfort you had Dinah, and thought I'd invite you to share about it. I didn't have any ideas in mind.
When I hear about the disclosures I'm generally glad my therp doesn't do likewise. Although I would welcome if she'd share more of her insights about my issues and my progress. I have to drag that stuff out of her. I think sometimes she wants to avoid having me get too goal-oriented and intellectual about my progress... but I'm just guessing.
OTOH, sometimes I feel like the odd person out since she and I *don't* get into all the transference and relationships stuff folks describe here, you know? It ties into my general fear that I'm just too cold or something.
Posted by Dinah on February 24, 2004, at 22:21:24
In reply to Re: from Ms. Schmidt: therapist self disclosure » Dinah, posted by tabitha on February 24, 2004, at 15:45:32
I hope I didn't sound snippy, Tabitha. It's been a rough few days. But I was just evaluating myself honestly and thoroughly in light of your question. I am aware that I've got issues in the area of sex, but after carefully considering, I don't think they were in play in my concerns.
I doubt that the lack of transference has anything to do with coldness on your part, Tabitha. As you can see, we all deal with our therapists differently.
Do you miss feeling deeply for your therapist? I think I'd hate wanting from him something he couldn't give, and I worry some about wanting what I want from him, for fear he will eventually be unable to give that. He *has* convinced me not to worry too much about it though. Still, it's not all that pleasant. Do you feel like you could change therapists (at least) without feeling too upset about it? If so, you may be among the luckier of us... They seem to desert us all too frequently one way or another.
Posted by tabitha on February 24, 2004, at 23:11:12
In reply to Re: from Ms. Schmidt: therapist self disclosure » tabitha, posted by Dinah on February 24, 2004, at 22:21:24
> I hope I didn't sound snippy, Tabitha.
Not snippy.. maybe a little distressed? It's so hard to tell with text.
>It's been a rough few days. But I was just evaluating myself honestly and thoroughly in light of your question. I am aware that I've got issues in the area of sex, but after carefully considering, I don't think they were in play in my concerns.
I hope your days have settled. Don't we all have issues with sexuality? (Please say yes so I'll feel normal. ) So I think I understand your concern about the disclosure.. sort of a mama bear thing? Concerned for the others?
>
> Do you miss feeling deeply for your therapist? <snip> Do you feel like you could change therapists (at least) without feeling too upset about it?I don't know. I kind of wonder why I've never gotten a big crush on her-- since obsessive crushes were my theme for a few years there. I definitely don't feel I could change therapists. Whenever I vaguely consider moving away from this town I realize I could leave everything except my therapist... but it doesn't feel like an emotional attachment-- more like I've got really difficult hair and she's the only stylist on earth who can manage it. -pause to think- Hmm, probably my hair isn't half so unusual and complicated as I imagine. But I'm not leaving.
Posted by Dinah on February 24, 2004, at 23:27:50
In reply to Re: from Ms. Schmidt: therapist self disclosure » Dinah, posted by tabitha on February 24, 2004, at 23:11:12
Or maybe you're more attached than you think?
Posted by tabitha on February 25, 2004, at 0:03:52
In reply to Re: from Ms. Schmidt: therapist self disclosure » tabitha, posted by Dinah on February 24, 2004, at 23:27:50
> Or maybe you're more attached than you think?
>What, me attached? No way... I just really really treasure her unique intellectual insights ;-)
Posted by terrics on February 25, 2004, at 16:36:39
In reply to Re: Erika Schmidt, LCSW - therapist self disclosure » terrics, posted by Crooked Heart on February 24, 2004, at 8:09:59
Yep, she was being paid. I wrote something on your new thread.
She changed her style today. We'll see if things improve.
terrics
Posted by terrics on February 25, 2004, at 16:39:37
In reply to Re: Erika Schmidt, LCSW - therapist self disclosure, posted by terrics on February 25, 2004, at 16:36:39
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 4, 2004, at 23:04:47
In reply to Re: from Ms. Schmidt: therapist self disclosure, posted by Joslynn on February 23, 2004, at 9:11:07
> I am still curious though, what would be your response to the specific questions Dinah asked about therapists revealing sexual attraction etc.?
I cannot judge whether such a disclosure was warranted in any particular situation because I don't know enough about it, therefore I kept my remarks general. However, I would tend to think quite conservatively on this issue for two basic reasons. First, disclosure of sexual attraction may easily move therapy off the main focus of exploration of the client's issues. Because the therapeutic relationship is such an intimate one that such disclosures may easily skew things in an unproductive way. And second, disclosure of sexual attraction is rarely a straightforward and simple matter of yes or no, so that what may be spoken in an effort to open up trust or other issues can become quickly way more complicated and tangled, and may obscure more important matters. No matter what is actually said, much is left unsaid. Exploring why the issue comes up in the way it does and what it means to the client, without direct disclosure, in my experience, is a more therapeutic approach. Another problem is that once such disclosures are made, it is difficult to assess their therapeutic value and actual impact as both therapist and client may rationalize and justify it because it is so complicated and non-straightforward.
Erika Schmidt, LCSW
Posted by Joslynn on March 5, 2004, at 8:15:22
In reply to more from Ms. Schmidt: therapist self disclosure, posted by Dr. Bob on March 4, 2004, at 23:04:47
Posted by Fallen4myT on March 5, 2004, at 16:57:31
In reply to more from Ms. Schmidt: therapist self disclosure, posted by Dr. Bob on March 4, 2004, at 23:04:47
Can someone please help me here? I am just not too sharp today..I need this clarified. Is she saying that if a T "IS" sexually attracted to a client he/she should not say???? I got lost here...not hard for me to do lately lol
Thank you
Posted by shortelise on March 5, 2004, at 18:30:25
In reply to Re: more from Ms. Schmidt: therapist self disclosure » Dr. Bob, posted by Fallen4myT on March 5, 2004, at 16:57:31
She is saying it is NOT a great idea.
ShortE
Posted by Fallen4myT on March 5, 2004, at 18:42:53
In reply to Re: more from Ms. Schmidt: therapist self disclosure, posted by shortelise on March 5, 2004, at 18:30:25
>Thank you ShortE...I thought that was what she was saying but then got confused. Personally, in my case I wish my T would say but I am glad to have this understood. Again thanks for the help
She is saying it is NOT a great idea.
>
> ShortE
Posted by widget on February 3, 2007, at 15:39:09
In reply to Re: from Ms. Schmidt: therapist self disclosure » Dinah, posted by tabitha on February 24, 2004, at 23:11:12
I am obviously viewing this two years later than it was posted. I am intrigued. I am extremely curious about how my therapist really feels about me. Basically, does he have any feelings of attraction for me? What would I do with this information? Nothing. But, I have been wondering about this for 6 months and trying to guess at the answer. He is very careful to be neutral on the subject and I doubt he would even answer if I asked directly. If only there was some way to know? Any advice? Thanks. I am very preoccupied by this.
Posted by ShortElise on February 3, 2007, at 17:43:38
In reply to Re: from Ms. Schmidt: therapist self disclosure, posted by widget on February 3, 2007, at 15:39:09
Part of the therepeutic process can be to work out other relationships with our therapists. If you're wondering about it, talk about it. The more aspects of your feelings about your T (and anybody else!) you can talk about, the better. A well trained T will treat you and your feelings with respect, and will understand that he is a stand-in for others in your life. It's not about HIM, it's about YOU. They know that.
It's not easy.
Therapy world as I see it...
Posted by widget on February 3, 2007, at 23:34:40
In reply to Re: from Ms. Schmidt: therapist self disclosure » widget, posted by ShortElise on February 3, 2007, at 17:43:38
Yes, but will I ever know how he feels about me? It would make an enormous difference to me. He is so kind and accepting which certainly feels liked love. But, if only I could read his mind...What should I do?
Posted by ShortElise on February 4, 2007, at 0:01:17
In reply to Re: from Ms. Schmidt: therapist self disclosure » ShortElise, posted by widget on February 3, 2007, at 23:34:40
What should you do? Well, what I have done is accept that my T respects me, that he is a good T, that he feels some affection for me at times, that he feels annoyed with me at times, that I bore him sometimes, and that we don't talk about his feelings unless it's helpful to my therapy.
If a T begins to have feelings for client/patients that are inappropriate s/he would, I think, go to see an advisor (I can't think of the right word for that at the moment) and if it can't be resolved - by the T outside of the relationship with his client - the T sends that client on to someone else.
I think there are lots of kinds of love. I love my cats, I love pasta with smoked salmon cream sauce, I love my husband, and I love a long, hot bath after a hard day. I love my best friend, and I love my old jeans. What I feel from my T doesn't fit into any of those loves. And if I call it feeling cared about, feeling safe, feeling respected and seen and heard - that's not love. That's more important than feeling he loves me. I don't need him to love me. I need him to care, hear, see, listen, and respect. But none of it has to do with touching or loving.
Were he ever to say to me that he loves me, I would lose faith in him, and in the therapy I've had with him. There have been times when he's had feelings that I've picked up on - anger, frustration, fatigue - and that have affected my therapy, so we've talked about them, but he always takes responsibility for his own feelings. And I can tell sometimes that he's feeling affection toward me. It's lovely. But I don't want to be loved by him. He's a fine man, my age, nice to look at, intelligent, very well educated, has varied interests, a family, etc. but I just want him to be my therapist, and to continue to be a kind, caring therapist. And for his sake, I hope he doesn't love me. It would have to be a strange kind of love .. he has so many patients, and if he loved some of us, it would be so hard for him.
I hope this all makes sense and is in some way helpful.
SE
Posted by Daisym on February 4, 2007, at 0:15:01
In reply to Re: from Ms. Schmidt: therapist self disclosure » ShortElise, posted by widget on February 3, 2007, at 23:34:40
The question is, would you believe him even if he told you? There is always that voice that says,
"this is his job. He HAS to say he cares about me."How long have you been in therapy with this therapist? After 3 1/2 years with mine, he still reminds me that what he says is less important that what I feel from him and implicitly know. However, he will answer my questions, he does tell me he cares about me and we talk about "our" relationship all the time.
I would encourage you to take the leap and talk about your feelings for your therapist. I think you will be surprised how it opens up your therapy.
btw, for what it's worth, these are very common feelings and a good therapist will expect them.
Posted by Dinah on February 4, 2007, at 11:41:29
In reply to Re: from Ms. Schmidt: therapist self disclosure » widget, posted by ShortElise on February 4, 2007, at 0:01:17
I could have written the same thing. :)
Posted by widget on February 5, 2007, at 8:26:28
In reply to Re: from Ms. Schmidt: therapist self disclosure » widget, posted by ShortElise on February 4, 2007, at 0:01:17
Yes, you make great sense. My dilemna is this: in therapy, we are supposed to be emotionally honest. I am being emotionally honest when I tell my psychiatrist/therapist that I love him. It is a real entity. He counter that it is transference. I have come to agree. My point is that it is both transference and love. Negating the feeling I have of love is negating or invalidating my inner reality which is what I assumed would not happen in therapy. I don't understand why we cannot talk about my feeling instead of him dismissing it as "transference" which I will grow out of. And, I may. However, I, in therapy, have begun to learn to trust myself and my feelings. Therefore, do I trust me or do I, as I have all my life, negate me in order to agree with him and make him comfortable.
I wonder why he cannot address my feeling toward him or accept that a lot of my feeling is due to him and his desirable and admirable characteristics. Until now, he has always validated what I have expressed to him. That is what has made this such good therapy and why I begin to trust him. And, I have told him this; that this is the one time he cannot validate the inner (real) me. So, do I put on the fake me? Sounds couterproductive, indeed.
I am left with wondering why he is so uncomfortable with my feelings directed at him. Yes, the feelings are intense. Perhaps, he really doesn't like me and I am grossing him out.
I am seriously confused and stuck in the therapy at this point. I need him to let me know the therapy can handle these feelings and deal with them instead of reading my Miranda rights about transference. Of course, the other possibility is that he is just uncomfortable hearing good things about himself and must automatically label such as due to transference in order to protect himself for whatever reason. I am feeling like his therapist. According to the book, In Session, this is called "gaslighting." It basically means I feel crazy for having these feelings when they are dismissed and not dealt with. He told me it was ok for us to disagree and that's fine, but I thought he would help me look more closely at this which is the only way I think it can be resolve. Thanks for reading. I'm confused.
Posted by widget on February 5, 2007, at 8:32:14
In reply to Re: from Ms. Schmidt: therapist self disclosure, posted by widget on February 5, 2007, at 8:26:28
Sorry about the typos but I am in hurry. One other item to add is that I have been in therapy with this psychiatrist for 3 l/2 years and only began to experience "transference" 6 months ago. I have read extensively in the literature regarding this. I am really trying.
Posted by widget on February 5, 2007, at 11:58:05
In reply to Re: from Ms. Schmidt: therapist self disclosure, posted by widget on February 5, 2007, at 8:26:28
> My dilemna is this: in therapy, we are supposed to be emotionally honest. I am being emotionally honest when I tell my psychiatrist/therapist that I love him. It is a real entity. He counter that it is transference. I have come to agree. My point is that it is both transference and love. Negating the feeling I have of love is negating or invalidating my inner reality which is what I assumed would not happen in therapy. I don't understand why we cannot talk about my feeling instead of him dismissing it as "transference" which I will grow out of. And, I may. However, I, in therapy, have begun to learn to trust myself and my feelings. Therefore, do I trust me or do I, as I have all my life, negate me in order to agree with him and make him comfortable.
> I wonder why he cannot address my feeling toward him or accept that a lot of my feeling is due to him and his desirable and admirable characteristics. Until now, he has always validated what I have expressed to him. That is what has made this such good therapy and why I begin to trust him. And, I have told him this; that this is the one time he cannot validate the inner (real) me. So, do I put on the fake me? Sounds couterproductive, indeed.
> I am left with wondering why he is so uncomfortable with my feelings directed at him. Yes, the feelings are intense. Perhaps, he really doesn't like me and I am grossing him out.
> I am seriously confused and stuck in the therapy at this point. I need him to let me know the therapy can handle these feelings and deal with them instead of reading my Miranda rights about transference. Of course, the other possibility is that he is just uncomfortable hearing good things about himself and must automatically label such as due to transference in order to protect himself for whatever reason. I am feeling like his therapist. According to the book, In Session, this is called "gaslighting." It basically means I feel crazy for having these feelings when they are dismissed and not dealt with. He told me it was ok for us to disagree and that's fine, but I thought he would help me look more closely at this which is the only way I think it can be resolved. Thanks for reading. I'm confused.
I have been in therapy with him for 3 1/2 years and only began to experience these intense feelings 6 months ago.
Posted by ShortElise on February 5, 2007, at 13:58:38
In reply to Re: from Ms. Schmidt: therapist self disclosure, posted by widget on February 5, 2007, at 8:26:28
Ok, now I see.
If it were me, I'd print out that elqouent post of your and give it to him. You make very, very good points. Maybe if he reads what you have written, he'll get it.
Keep us posted, please. And take care of yourself. You're not crazy to call what you feel toward him as love - it's your emotion, and you can call it whatever you like. It might be a question on sematics, and he'd feel better if you said it differently, but I think you're right - it's up to him to be your therapist and to try to see your perspective. No, please, widget, don't negate your feelings.
In your first post, you said you needed to know if he loved you. You don't mention that here.
If you feel you are madly in love with him, want to have sex with him, make babies and live happily ever after, there's probably a lot of transference in there. I think that's pretty "normal". But that, as I've said before, is not the only way to love.
Again, keep us posted and take care.
SE
Posted by ShortElise on February 5, 2007, at 14:00:56
In reply to Can transference and love exist together?, posted by widget on February 5, 2007, at 11:58:05
Yes, I think transference and love can co-exist.
Posted by widget on February 5, 2007, at 17:05:08
In reply to Re: from Ms. Schmidt: therapist self disclosure » widget, posted by ShortElise on February 5, 2007, at 13:58:38
oh, thank you for the validating response. Your advice is good but extremely hard to take. I, like so many others who write here, am so afraid of offending my psychiatrist. No doubt, this is due to my fear of abandonment. Perhaps I should prepare something in writing because when I am there, I can never think of all the coherent points I'd like to make. On the good side, he has assured me he will not abandon me ever. That is a good thing.
Also, a few sessions after I told him my feelings, he sought supervision from his analyst because he said transference is incredibly important but therapists sometimes do not get enough experience with it and he wanted to make sure he did it right. I was flattered that he contacted this analyst about me especially since he had told me previously he hadn't spoken to him in a very long time. Maybe his advice was to do what he is now doing. hmmm. Food for thought. Yes, I will always wonder what the hell he REALLY thinks of me but I am trying to accept that he will never really be totally candid. I know he doesn't wish to encourage me.
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