![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on February 22, 2004, at 9:29:12
Well, if we only get one answer, I'd prefer that the other question get the answer. :) But I also have a personal question. I am in long term therapy (going on nine years), and am quite happy with it, and have no intention of moving to another therapist. I consider therapy and mood stabilizing medication to be an ongoing part of my treatment, like insulin to a diabetic. And in addition, there is slow but steady growth in that my mood is more stable for longer periods of time with fewer and briefer meltdowns.
But sometimes I feel a bit envious of people who are getting new insights and ideas of what direction to take. Not that there isn't a certain advantage to familiarity. I *like* that my therapist could answer the questions for me on a recent evaluation test we were looking over. He knows just about everything there is to know about me, therapy wise.
Is there any way to combine the advantages? Do you have any ideas about how to inject new ideas and insight into long term therapy?
Thank you again.
Posted by Dinah on February 22, 2004, at 9:33:51
In reply to Erika Schmidt, LCSW -freshening long term therapy, posted by Dinah on February 22, 2004, at 9:29:12
If any of you have any ideas?
That don't in any way involve not continuing to see him, of course.
Posted by noa on February 22, 2004, at 10:00:54
In reply to I'd appreciate input from all, by the way, posted by Dinah on February 22, 2004, at 9:33:51
Maybe a consultation for both you and your therapist to assess where you've been, where you are and what direction you want to go in in the future, which may be exactly the same as where you are already headed, or not, but either way, having some reflection and input from a consultant could "freshen" it up and/or validate what is good.
Posted by Dinah on February 22, 2004, at 11:10:12
In reply to Re: I'd appreciate input from all, by the way » Dinah, posted by noa on February 22, 2004, at 10:00:54
That's a good idea, but scares me a bit too. I haven't had a lot of luck with the mental health professionals around here.
Plus, when the EMDR therapist came up with a conclusion that I really didn't like, and my therapist didn't agree, he said that he hadn't gone to her for supervision or a consultation and didn't need to give her opinion too much weight. Which makes me worry that if he got an opinion from a consultant, he might give it *too* much weight. :)
On the other hand, my recent adventures into biofeedback and EMDR might be a sign that something *is* needed, and a consultation *might* be a good idea.
Slighly less scary than the idea of marriage therapy, but not by a whole lot less. I'd really have to trust the consultant, and I'm not sure I trust my therapist's taste in mental health professionals. Or maybe he *is* the only good one!!! :O
Pfinstegg, Daisy? Are your therapists available for consultation?
Posted by Karen_kay on February 22, 2004, at 11:58:50
In reply to I'd appreciate input from all, by the way, posted by Dinah on February 22, 2004, at 9:33:51
And maybe evaluating what exactly you want.. On your own time. I often make lists (OCPD gets me often I suppose) about what exactly I need to work on, the new goals that have come up from therapy that I didn't even realize I need to work on, ect.
If you are seeing him as basically maintenance, then there must be some things that aren't being solved.
I do have a personal question, if you don't mind... If you want to become interested in activities with your husband, maybe this is something to explore with your therapist. If you aren't interested in becoming more physically active, I'd say there is some reason why. Maybe you could begin exploring that with your therapist. He doesn't have to comment on whether he is in fact male :)
Posted by Dinah on February 22, 2004, at 13:41:29
In reply to Re: I'd appreciate input from all, by the way, posted by Karen_kay on February 22, 2004, at 11:58:50
Chuckle. We do discuss it from time to time, and in fact have recently had a pretty big breakthrough as to the "why" - and it isn't even the obvious! Plus, of course, that it *hurts* which doesn't make any activity a real pleasure. And he manages to do it without revealing his gender, if any! lol.
Although, to be fair to myself, it's not that I don't *engage* in the activity. In fact, I seriously doubt that my husband knows how I feel about it.
Sigh. I think a fair number of the reasons I stay in therapy have a physiological component. I could up the mood stabilizers, but I like the side effect profile of therapy better.
Posted by Karen_kay on February 22, 2004, at 13:59:36
In reply to Re: I'd appreciate input from all, by the way » Karen_kay, posted by Dinah on February 22, 2004, at 13:41:29
And it's great to have continuing support! Oh, I wish I had it from my therapist :)
But, I think to end the "slump" maybe you could focus more on things you may be avoiding (are you avoiding anything??) You could have a monumental breakthrough if you shift focus to things that you don't regularly engage in discussing. For me personally, when I started therapy my father was perfect, so we didn't discuss him. Later, as I revealed memory problems and sexual problems, I learned why my father was perfect in my head, and why I'm constantly searching for a rescue from an older man.
Look at your difficulties that you can't seem to overcome and that may lead to a breakthrough of sorts. (Even though personaly I think you are perfect! :) you may not. Ask why you don't think you're perfect, ect.. Just asking yourself questions and giving honest answers may help... I do it all the time, but I don't like the interviewee's answers :)
Posted by Pfinstegg on February 22, 2004, at 16:53:01
In reply to Re: I'd appreciate input from all, by the way » Dinah, posted by Karen_kay on February 22, 2004, at 13:59:36
i was trying to understand what you are actually asking for. I've noticed, of course, that you've made excursions into biofeedback and EMDR, and wondered then what it was that you hoped you'd find there that you haven't found a way to ask for, or try to find, with your own therapist.
Would a way to approach this be to ask yourself more, with your therapist, what you really want for your life, and from therapy? Are there things you would want if you didn't dismiss them quickly from your mind because of the anxiety they bring up, or because you've just gotten used to not having them?
For example, you are so smart, Dinah, but I get the feeling that you haven't translated that into a career goal which would match your brains and give you the confidence and self-esteem which is rightfully yours. It's as if that is somehow implicitly "off-limits" for you. Why should it be? In the past, you've mentioned wanting to study to become a therapist yourself; everyone who knows you here knows FOR SURE that you would make a wonderful one. Is this something you might really enjoy doing? Is there something inside you which prevents you from going ahead with that, or some other rewarding venture?
In another area, which is a bit harder to talk about: from what you have told us, there are things about your marriage which could be better (of course, you're not alone here- it's true of us all!) But, from the way you talk about it, you seem to be saying it's not possible for you to actually make those changes- either through your own therapy, or in couples therapy. I am wondering- why not?
I guess I'm saying in various ways that you seem to have expectations that are too low for the person you really are. It just comes to my mind that you are already the most successful person in your immediate family in terms of mental health and work and family accomplishments, even given the problems that you have. If you accomplished even more, would it be, unconsciously, like leaving them behind or *killing them off* altogether? Just brainstorming here!
I have come to believe more and more strongly that, for growth and fulfilment in life, none of us can ever have too much of the kind of direct and honest interaction which we can have with our therapists- some of it, or maybe even a lot of it, seems to be on the level of emotional and bodily connections and responses which only later get translated into words. I get the most out of my sessions when I interact with BEOWULF on this level first, rather than trying to intellectualize and figure things out. It's taken me a year to kind of *let go* and do things this way, and it does involve a lot of terror reactions. The thing about terror reactions, though, is that they don't last terribly long, and there are so many feelings besides terror which come right along afterwards. You have said that you tend to intellectualize, too- do you have times when you can trust him to be *there* enough, and to do his part enough, so that you can just be you, and honor and express just your own feelings and reactions, without having to monitor his as well? I don't even know if you do that- just brainstorming along, again!
Anway, it's great to have you here to talk to- don't you DARE leave again!
Posted by Pfinstegg on February 22, 2004, at 17:15:11
In reply to Re: I'd appreciate input from all, by the way: Din, posted by Pfinstegg on February 22, 2004, at 16:53:01
By "family", I meant "family of origin".
Posted by Dinah on February 22, 2004, at 17:32:09
In reply to Re: I'd appreciate input from all, by the way: Din, posted by Pfinstegg on February 22, 2004, at 16:53:01
All good questions. I do tend to practice radical acceptance perhaps a bit too much. I don't believe I've ever had the experience of anyone in my life changing significantly, so it's not something that I even consider. I just work around things.
A couple of months ago I gave my therapist leave to challenge me more. A couple of weeks later I took it back. In the end, I was unable to sacrifice my safe space for growth. And perhaps that's the underlying theme to most of what you mentioned. I'm unwilling to jeopardize my feeling of security, however tenuous, for *anything*. I could liven up therapy considerably by telling him to challenge me more again, and he'd be delighted as he was then. But I'm not sure I'm willing to risk losing my safe space...
Now that's not true of the job issue. Even my therapist encourages me to stay put there. Unfortunately my job is ideally suited to my skills, talents, and many of my weaknesses. And I'm temperamentally unsuited to the "people" jobs I'd like to have. So he discourages me from that path. And I think he's probably right...
Posted by Pfinstegg on February 22, 2004, at 18:07:33
In reply to Re: I'd appreciate input from all, by the way: Din » Pfinstegg, posted by Dinah on February 22, 2004, at 17:32:09
By way of comparison, I don't get to control how much I'm challenged by *Beowulf*. We just have to keep working on the edge, leaving safety behind (temporarily). I feel sad when you say you don't feel able to do that, and, really, I have a hard time believing it. You just seem too strong, and able to take care of yourself.
I guess I'll have to accept what you both say about the "people" part not being your strong suit. It certainly is very strong here on PB, but i know that's not the same as in real life. And I was probably way out of line about your work, because I don't even know what it is! I'm sorry!
This must be my evening to go out on limbs, because I'm wondering why, if you have some vague feelings of dissatisfaction, you don't have a consultation about these issues. You say you haven't had good experiences with other therapists in your area, but you COULD have a good experience; you can't know in advance. I feel sad when you say that you haven't had the experience of people changing; those expectations really are too low, I think.
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 22, 2004, at 18:19:32
In reply to Erika Schmidt, LCSW -freshening long term therapy, posted by Dinah on February 22, 2004, at 9:29:12
You raise an interesting question about the problems and possibilities of long-term therapy relationships. I think the thorough knowledge and history that a therapist and client have together generally outweigh the advantages of fresh perspective because in a long-term relationship the context of the knowledge and information is much better appreciated and recognized. There's a conviction that grows out of that as well. I don't have any easy answer to this question, except that you should always be prepared to be surprised by what you learn about yourself and that important insights rarely spring up spontaneously, because the groundwork is generally painstakingly laid over time and through repeated examinations and reexaminations of material for them. Since I do both long-term and short-term psychotherapy (both from a psychodynamic perspective) I am always impressed by what people learn about themselves, given the opportunity to explore openly.
Erika Schmidt, LCSW
Posted by Dinah on February 22, 2004, at 18:31:47
In reply to Re: I'd appreciate input from all, by the way: Din, posted by Pfinstegg on February 22, 2004, at 18:07:33
Never out of line, Pfinstegg! Actually your post was enormously helpful to me. It helped me remember that if I'm a bit bored when I'm doing well the remedy is in my hands. I just have to willing to take the risk that it will make my therapist less a place of refuge when I'm not doing well. Maybe I can address this with him again, now that the iron is cold so to speak. Maybe we can figure out some way to preserve the refuge while using my good times to accomplish a bit more through letting him challenge me a bit more. He says I bite back when he challenges me. :(
P.S. Have you actually known someone to change? Really? It's an astonishing concept....
I've saved myself a lot of pain with low expectations.
Posted by Dinah on February 22, 2004, at 18:34:11
In reply to from Ms. Schmidt: freshening long term therapy, posted by Dr. Bob on February 22, 2004, at 18:19:32
Please pass on to Ms. Shmidt my thanks. Her advice agrees with my own thoughts on the matter, and is reassuring to me that I'm on the right course.
Posted by Dinah on February 22, 2004, at 18:43:02
In reply to Re: I'd appreciate input from all, by the way: Din, posted by Pfinstegg on February 22, 2004, at 18:07:33
Is there any significance to the choice of Beowulf? Other than the "B"? It's a fascinating choice of nicknames. :)
My therapist once told me that his fear with me in therapy was to slay Grendel only to be confronted with Grendel's mother. I had completely forgotten that until now. I ought to ask him if he has found Grendel's mother yet.
Posted by gardenergirl on February 22, 2004, at 19:29:25
In reply to Re: I'd appreciate input from all, by the way: Din » Pfinstegg, posted by Dinah on February 22, 2004, at 18:31:47
Dinah,
Just jumping in here. I know one thing I learned in psychodynamics class that stayed with me is that often striking while the iron is cold is the way to go. So I think, if you want to give that a try, it is a good idea.BTW, even if you never get to studying to be a T for whatever reason, you add so much to this board--so much support and insight. I'm so happy to have you here and I rely on your support--kind of like a T. Your role here is invaluable, and you are SO supremely skilled at it.
Take care,
gg
Posted by Dinah on February 22, 2004, at 20:52:38
In reply to Re: I'd appreciate input from all, by the way: Din, posted by gardenergirl on February 22, 2004, at 19:29:25
Posted by Pfinstegg on February 22, 2004, at 23:53:58
In reply to Oh, I forgot! » Pfinstegg, posted by Dinah on February 22, 2004, at 18:43:02
Well, I wanted to keep with the "B's" which have been adopted by everyone who (so far) has given their therapists a name, and it just popped into my mind that it suits him- he loves linguistics, and knows a lot about early and medieval Indo-European languages. He especially loves Celtic (a benign boundary-crossing that he has let me know about).
Yes, I do know people who have truly changed. My husband and I got together, with neither one of us knowing how much abuse there had been in both of our childhoods. We were so hoping to make a new, happier start, ourselves: we did truly love one another. We did do that, but out terrible histories gradually took over our lives, and we both began re-enacting our pasts with one another; we didn't want to, but we just could not help doing it. For a long time, we kind of avoided this huge problem, and concentrated on raising our son, who easily took up a lot of out energies, as he had serious learning disabilities. But now, he is sailing along towards his PhD in physics at Princeton, with a wonderful girlfriend, lots of friends and interests, and all sorts of clever ways around those learning disabilities. So! Now, we really had to face our own lives, and what was happening in them. We both went into therapy with different analysts, and also started couples therapy with a great
psychologist.We are putting as much energy and effort as we can into all of this, and I can say, for sure, that my husband is changing a lot- becoming much more flexible, loving, thoughtful- and free of his own terrible past. For me, it's harder to say, although I know a lot is happening, I am not yet sure whether I'll really get to where I would like to be, but I do hope so, and I know that my analyst has confidence that I'll be able to do it. When I was in my twenties,, I had a wonderful two-year experience with an analyst; I knew that I was changing a lot for the better, and I feel that it enabled me to fall in love and marry. What's so hard about neglect, abuse, or just plain terrible mis-attuned parenting is that it presents all of us with an enormous lifelong task- preventing our children from suffering the same fate, and finding a way to live fulfilling lives of our own. But then. being a doctor, i see so many terrible physical things wrong with people, and I have to recognize that I have been blessed with physical health, so far, whereas many people are not. For me, it's the mental health which I have to accept as being my lifelong challenge. Still, Dinah, I have had periods of feeling that I was really growing and changing; and I have that feeling now, too. I know I can do a lot, but, however much I might wish it, I can never become what I would have been if those terrible things had not occurred in my childhood. But, think of the people who, as the most painful example, have half of their faces eaten away by cancer- they have a different challenge, but it is just as hard.
Posted by Dinah on February 23, 2004, at 0:57:54
In reply to Re: Oh, I forgot! to Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on February 22, 2004, at 23:53:58
Now that is truly inspirational. I suppose people can change if they want to badly enough and have enough insight.
That's wonderful about your son! I am trying so hard not to repeat the mistakes of my parents with mine. But I suspect that my husband and I are committing our own unique mistakes. My son is far too concerned about being good. Even more than I was at his age. Such a sensitive soul. You must be proud when you see a happy well adjusted young man. I hope I can say the same some day. The kids are really the best motivation for change, aren't they?
Posted by Pfinstegg on February 23, 2004, at 6:46:36
In reply to Re: Oh, I forgot! to Dinah » Pfinstegg, posted by Dinah on February 23, 2004, at 0:57:54
They are! Our son was also very sensitive and so kind and nice- we used to worry a lot about him being TOO nice. But he has turned out OK, and can be firm and angry-with us- when he feels he needs to. So, as we're struggling with these abuse issues of our own, we can at least say, "it stopped with us". That's the best feeling ever!
Posted by Dinah on February 23, 2004, at 7:17:36
In reply to Re: Oh, I forgot! to Dinah » Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on February 23, 2004, at 6:46:36
Posted by antigua on February 23, 2004, at 9:40:41
In reply to Re: I'd appreciate input from all, by the way: Din, posted by Pfinstegg on February 22, 2004, at 16:53:01
Wow. Your first post to Dinah above really hit a nerve with me. Have you been peeking in on my life?
Fear keeps me from accomplishing everything that I am fully capable of--it keeps me from being as successful professionally as I could be. Not so much in terms of my personal life. Like many here, the abuse has stopped with me and while my children will certainly have their own issues, they do have a pretty happy, normal, non-chaotic childhood. I couldn't be happier for them, and I know that I've devoted the last 15 years of my life to them and now it's time to shift the attention and care over to me.
I've been working on the fear for a long time, and I do see progress. And I'm not giving up until I feel right about it. I do feel sad for all the lost opportunities in my life, but I'm trying not to focus on that and instead focus on the good in my life.
Yes, I do believe people can change and I think I'm living proof, as is my husband. We've both changed so much from those young idealistic teenagers, but we have found a way to grow up together and love each other even more. It's certainly not easy, but I know that when the kids head off to college, it's back to the two of us again. I'm probably guilty of not paying enough attention to my husband; it's easier to focus on the kids.
I could write more, but thank you very much. I appreciate all of your posts on this thread.
antigua
Posted by tinydancer on February 23, 2004, at 11:43:33
In reply to Erika Schmidt, LCSW -freshening long term therapy, posted by Dinah on February 22, 2004, at 9:29:12
Hi Dinah. How long have you been in therapy with your current T? Just wondering before I go on to ask you any questions.
Posted by Dinah on February 23, 2004, at 12:02:44
In reply to Re: Erika Schmidt, LCSW -freshening long term therapy » Dinah, posted by tinydancer on February 23, 2004, at 11:43:33
I told him next year, I'd bring him a cupcake to mark our tenth.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.