![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 13 to 37 of 43. Go back in thread:
Posted by bleauberry on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:41
In reply to THE root cause of TRD is, posted by LostBoyinNC45 on February 21, 2014, at 23:09:09
Well, in my opinion, most of the answers for treatment resistant psychiatric symptoms are already here. Doctors however have become compartmentalized and fragmented into specialties, which makes it difficult to see the big picture of what could really be going on with the patient's body. They generally look at parts, not the whole.
Many doctor visits are 15 minutes. There is no possible way to treat a patient effectively and passionately in 15 minutes. There is not even enough time to ask all the important questions, not to mention the time for the patient's response. Tests that could be readily ordered to rule in/out this or that, are not done, except maybe for basic panel, thyroid, maybe a couple others. And even if any of those tests show problems, then the mistakes are then confounded further by treating just that problem, with little thought as to where that problem came from or what is causing it. So it goes, one symptom after another.
In my experience, the vast majority of psychiatric symptoms do not originate in the brain. The brain is just the place that feels the impact.
MDs who work with patients in the areas of chronic infections such as lyme disease and heavy metals pretty much already have the answers to our TRD. I say that only because I have been involved in witnessing the transformation of lives, including my own, when tools from outside the psychiatric toolbox were employed. It really isn't hard to get a clue as to what is really going on, if the right questions are asked. But for the most part, the way our system is set up, really isn't very user friendly for either the MD or the patient.
So I guess I am saying that while I wish there was some magic pill anyone could take, I don't think that is a realistic outcome anytime soon. In the meantime, the problem isn't our meds. The problem is we are not diagnosing the real issues causing the TRD. With the limitations obamacare imposes on patients, such as the very high deductibles as one example, and the short doctor visits, or for cash paying patients, I do not see how this problem can improve. ?
Root cause is likely in this circle: Inflammation, toxin accumulation, infection, whichever one was first, resulting in multisystemic issues, psychiatric being common. The mood center in the brain is under massive assault from any of the above, and the psych meds really don't have mechanisms that do much to suppress or stop those assaults. They only serve to fix up what ever was damaged, while the damage continues anyway.
I dunno. Maybe I'm just weird.
Posted by baseball55 on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:41
In reply to THE root cause of TRD is, posted by LostBoyinNC45 on February 21, 2014, at 23:09:09
> Get out and start voting. The midterms are coming up this Fall 2014.
>
> Eric AKA "LostBoyinNC"For whom should you vote? Tea-party, pro-NRA candidates who want to cut taxes and defund government, including basic science research? Or liberal, anti-NRA candidates who want to raise taxes and increase government spending on care and research for the mentally ill, among other things?
My legislators (In MA) are most all endorsed by NAMI, want government funding for science and health. They also all want restrictions on gun sales. Would you vote for them?
Posted by SLS on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:41
In reply to Re: THE root cause of TRD is, posted by baseball55 on February 22, 2014, at 19:10:34
> My legislators (In MA) are most all endorsed by NAMI, want government funding for science and health. They also all want restrictions on gun sales. Would you vote for them?
:-)
LostBoy,
I am mostly offended that someone should blame the mentally ill electorate for the lack of extant knowledge that is to be "THE" root cause of TRD. Was this true 100 years ago before MAOIs appeared by accident? No, of course not. From what I read on the Internet, research is proceeding at a fevered pace. It occurs to me that more money might not have quickened the pace of discovery over the last 55 years. There are still sticking points as the evolution of medical technology to perform experiments simply did not exist, and today dictates the rate of discovery.
Okay. I vote. Now what? Severely depressed people have difficulty getting out of bed. Now what? Severely depressed people don't read the newspaper on a daily basis in order to stay current. Now what? The newspaper often does not announce the position canditate's takes on spending more money on the research of mental illness. Now what? Sometimes, no candidate has in their stated platform an opinion on mental illness. Now what?
Tell me who to vote for. I'll do it!
The answer is not so much how to vote, but to produce canditates to vote for.
It is unfortunate that politics should so often dictate the behaviors of politicians. In my state, a prospective candidate for governor who had a family member with severe depression was the ideal person to advocate for the mentally ill. He capitulated to the candidate who had far more money to campaign with. In this case, I doubt write-in votes would have helped.
Grass-roots campaigns to write massive numbers of letters to incumbents and potential candidates should help produce sympathetic and activist candidates to vote for. Perhaps this is already being done. NAMI and DBSA have done this for years. Now what? I once sent a document that I wrote to EVERY state legislator in my state and managed to get it physically placed into the hands of the governor. I was advocating for Medicaid recipients who were being ejected from the partial hospitalization system. Within two months, a change in state Medicaid regulations allowed for the continued care of the mentally ill in these programs beyond the former two year limit. Did my letter writing campaign help to produce substantive change? I don't know. Probably, according to the facilitator of a local PH program that shoved my letter in the governor's hands. Bully for me. Now what?
How about severely anergic depressives with cognitive slowing? Most cannot pull off what I did. In other words, severely mentally ill people can rarely advocate for themselves. Now what? Is the failure of them to vote at the root of their TRD?
I don't know who to vote for. Maybe a democrat by default?
I have voted in the past. I remain ill. Now what?
Am I a defeatist?
I don't think it is productive to blame the victim for the absence of an effective treatment. I doubt you set out to assert such an opinion, but this is how I took it.
- Scott
Posted by LostBoyinNC45 on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:42
In reply to Re: THE root cause of TRD is, posted by baseball55 on February 22, 2014, at 19:10:34
The basic idea is, you vote consistently. Even in the midterms. Then after you vote and people are elected, you EMAIL THEM, CALL THEM and WRITE THEM and tell them, "hey *ssh*l*, I vote every election. I want more prolific federal funding for basic and advanced science research that will lead to much more effective treatment for severe mental illnesses. I also want you to propose and pass federal legislation that would prevent abuse to psychiatric sufferers. As a citizen and a voter, I keep track of how my elected officials vote on key issues I care about a lot. And I do not vote for them if I see they are not supporting my interests. Thank you and I wish you well."
I dont live in MASS, so your question to me is stupid and does not apply to me. Vote however YOU desire. BTW, you almost sound as if you are looking for an excuse NOT to vote...which is typical in this demographic.
Eric AKA "LostBoyinNC"
> > Get out and start voting. The midterms are coming up this Fall 2014.
> >
> > Eric AKA "LostBoyinNC"
>
> For whom should you vote? Tea-party, pro-NRA candidates who want to cut taxes and defund government, including basic science research? Or liberal, anti-NRA candidates who want to raise taxes and increase government spending on care and research for the mentally ill, among other things?
>
> My legislators (In MA) are most all endorsed by NAMI, want government funding for science and health. They also all want restrictions on gun sales. Would you vote for them?
Posted by LostBoyinNC45 on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:42
In reply to Re: THE root cause of TRD is, posted by SLS on February 23, 2014, at 9:33:16
SLS,
You seem to be kind of, shall I say, unable to think or abstract or something. I made it clear that in the beginning that the problem is the MAJORITY of seriously mentally ill individuals do not vote and if they vote, they dont vote CONSISTENTLY.
The key is getting seriously mentally ill people to vote en masse. And not only vote en masse, to email their elected officials en masse on this subject.
It is only when a block of voters with special interests (you and me) vote en masse and write their elected officials en masses, that what I am describing actually works.
So you have voted? Thats great, wonderful it truly is. Congratulations. But, do you vote every election? Even in the mid terms? And do you also write and email your elected officials and tell them about the issues you care about and things you want changed or not changed? Do you get a formal written response back from your elected officials?
And do your mentally ill brethren, en masse, do the same thing? I realize there are some very severely mentally ill individuals who are too far gone to have the mental ability to go to the polls, vote and compose emails and compose their thoughts. But those people are in the minority of the mentally ill ranks.
If you are here on this forum or other, similar forums, you have the ability to vote consistently and to email and write your elected officials. No excuses, no ifs, ands or but this, but that. No more excuses, no more bs. You either care about yourself or you dont. One of the ways people show to the world that they care about themselves (at least a little bit) is to go to the polls consistently, vote and email/write their elected officials. Thats the way our country operates.
Lets take an example of a demographic that votes like crazy and writes their elected officials like crazy. I belong to this demographic as well as the mentally ill demographic. The NRA, pro-Second Amendment demographic. This demographic is very aggressive when it comes to voting consistently and very aggressive when it comes emailing and writing their elected officials on the subject of gun control laws and pro-Second Amendment issues.
And look at the results they typically get! They broke the President of the United States back last April, when comrade obama's vaunted gun control Act was defeated in the U.S. Senate. Why did that happen? BECAUSE PRO-SECOND AMENDMENT PEOPLE VOTE CONSISTENTLY AND THEIR ELECTED OFFICIALS KNOW THAT AND THOSE SAME ELECTED OFFICIALS WANT TO GET RE-ELECTED!!!!
Other demographics with similar successes in the lobbying/voting area include: AARP members, the pro-Israel American Jewish lobby, the homosexual/gay HIV/AIDS demographic...they were very very successful in the late eighties and the nineties at getting politicians to move off their butts in getting aggressive federal aid for HIV drug research. If they had not done that back then, there would be a huge amount more of dead people in the USA from AIDS.
I see nothing like this from the mentally ill crowd. While you might find some exceptions such as myself, who vote and write very consistently, I am not typical. The typical is to be depressed/bipolar/schizophrenic whatever, go on disability or hold down a part time job and live with your parents or in a group home and post on psychobabble or similar forums a lot. And go around WHINING all the time and trying new drugs all the time, like a dog chasing its tail.
To me, that is not the way I like to do business. I dont know why I bother to try with you people anymore. I should have learned my lesson a long time ago.
Again, if you are posting here or elsewhere on the Internet regularly, you ALSO have the full ability to vote in every single election and to email and write your elected officials on the subject of serious mental illness, improved funding for vastly more effective medications and treatments. There are simply no excuses, other than laziness and ignorance.
The "why bother?" or the "who cares?" or the "my vote does not matter" is exactly the reason why there is such a thing as TRD.
Eric
>
> LostBoy,
>
> I am mostly offended that someone should blame the mentally ill electorate for the lack of extant knowledge that is to be "THE" root cause of TRD. Was this true 100 years ago before MAOIs appeared by accident? No, of course not. From what I read on the Internet, research is proceeding at a fevered pace. It occurs to me that more money might not have quickened the pace of discovery over the last 55 years. There are still sticking points as the evolution of medical technology to perform experiments simply did not exist, and today dictates the rate of discovery.
>
> Okay. I vote. Now what? Severely depressed people have difficulty getting out of bed. Now what? Severely depressed people don't read the newspaper on a daily basis in order to stay current. Now what? The newspaper often does not announce the position canditate's takes on spending more money on the research of mental illness. Now what? Sometimes, no candidate has in their stated platform an opinion on mental illness. Now what?
>
> Tell me who to vote for. I'll do it!
>
> The answer is not so much how to vote, but to produce canditates to vote for.
>
> It is unfortunate that politics should so often dictate the behaviors of politicians. In my state, a prospective candidate for governor who had a family member with severe depression was the ideal person to advocate for the mentally ill. He capitulated to the candidate who had far more money to campaign with. In this case, I doubt write-in votes would have helped.
>
> Grass-roots campaigns to write massive numbers of letters to incumbents and potential candidates should help produce sympathetic and activist candidates to vote for. Perhaps this is already being done. NAMI and DBSA have done this for years. Now what? I once sent a document that I wrote to EVERY state legislator in my state and managed to get it physically placed into the hands of the governor. I was advocating for Medicaid recipients who were being ejected from the partial hospitalization system. Within two months, a change in state Medicaid regulations allowed for the continued care of the mentally ill in these programs beyond the former two year limit. Did my letter writing campaign help to produce substantive change? I don't know. Probably, according to the facilitator of a local PH program that shoved my letter in the governor's hands. Bully for me. Now what?
>
> How about severely anergic depressives with cognitive slowing? Most cannot pull off what I did. In other words, severely mentally ill people can rarely advocate for themselves. Now what? Is the failure of them to vote at the root of their TRD?
>
> I don't know who to vote for. Maybe a democrat by default?
>
> I have voted in the past. I remain ill. Now what?
>
> Am I a defeatist?
>
> I don't think it is productive to blame the victim for the absence of an effective treatment. I doubt you set out to assert such an opinion, but this is how I took it.
>
>
> - Scott
>
Posted by SLS on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:43
In reply to Re: THE root cause of TRD is » SLS, posted by LostBoyinNC45 on February 23, 2014, at 12:39:26
Okay.
What have you written - and to whom?
Who should I vote for?
- Scott
Posted by SLS on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:43
In reply to Re: THE root cause of TRD is » SLS, posted by LostBoyinNC45 on February 23, 2014, at 12:39:26
> SLS,
Oh, I forgot to ask...
> You seem to be kind of, shall I say, unable to think or abstract or something.Is it okay with you that I am unable to think or abstract or something? I am mentally ill, you know.
- Scott
Posted by LostBoyinNC45 on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:44
In reply to Re: THE root cause of TRD is » LostBoyinNC45, posted by SLS on February 23, 2014, at 15:58:52
I could care less that you are mentally ill and obviously unable to think or reason well. I can read your posts and that is obvious.
It does bother me some, however, that you are able to spend so much time posting on this forum. Yet seem to have such a cavalier attitude about voting and writing your elected officials. Yes, that attitude bothers me some. It makes me wonder if it really true what psychiatrists claim, that most mentally ill people are unable to take care of themselves...in the most basic kinds of ways.
Eric
> > SLS,
>
> Oh, I forgot to ask...
>
> > You seem to be kind of, shall I say, unable to think or abstract or something.
>
> Is it okay with you that I am unable to think or abstract or something? I am mentally ill, you know.
>
>
> - Scott
>
Posted by SLS on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:44
In reply to Re: THE root cause of TRD is, posted by LostBoyinNC45 on February 23, 2014, at 19:02:54
> I could care less that you are mentally ill
That's a great place to start your campaign for the effective treatment of TRD. Good luck.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:44
In reply to Re: THE root cause of TRD is » LostBoyinNC45, posted by SLS on February 23, 2014, at 19:40:55
Do your thing and lets see how far you get. Phillipa
Posted by baseball55 on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:45
In reply to Re: THE root cause of TRD is, posted by LostBoyinNC45 on February 23, 2014, at 12:14:23
> I dont live in MASS, so your question to me is stupid and does not apply to me. Vote however YOU desire. BTW, you almost sound as if you are looking for an excuse NOT to vote...which is typical in this demographic.
>
Maybe we should move this to politics, before vitriol spill into the med board. Excuse me. But I always vote and always contribute to NAMI and follow their campaigns. So I am way above the curve here. But, for whom to you vote? I really want to know? The NRA candidate who wants to defund government? Or...? And I bet that legislators are really, really responsive to the rare email they receive that asks them to fund mental health.In MA, I have the luxury of knowing that my legislators actually care about this issue. I leave it to NAMiI to vet candidates. To vet candidates and lobby on my own would be more than a full-time job. That's why we have lobbying, advocacy groups like NAMI. I donate to NAMI. I read their literature. I know the state NAMI director and ask her about candidates.
The idea that politics is all individual - I study A, vote for A, call A's office, etc -- is not workable. That's why we have advocacy organizations. I rely on them to do the homework and vote their slates.
Posted by LostBoyinNC45 on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:45
In reply to Re: THE root cause of TRD is, posted by baseball55 on February 23, 2014, at 20:33:49
You know WHY the NRA is such a successful pro-2A lobbying group? Outsiders think its some big secret or something. Or outsiders will always claim "its the big money spent on guns and ammo that keeps the Second Amendment alive."
Neither speculative claim is correct.
The reason the NRA is so successful as a pro-2A lobbying group is very simple, so pitifully simple that a lot of people refuse to believe it. The reason is, the NRA tells its membership to get off their duffs and vote consistently. The NRA also tells it membership to get off their duffs and write their elected officials when critical issues come up periodically.
Thats all it is. Simple. Voting and sending out some emails or letters one to three times a year.
I used to be a member of NAMI myself. Im a member of NARSAD now. I like NARSAD more than I like NAMI. However neither advocacy groups is a well oiled machine like the NRA is and routinely reinforces their membership to "get off your duffs and vote." Nor does NAMI routinely encourage a lot of communications between constituents and elected officials on mental illness advocacy issues.
Ive never been impressed by the effectiveness of NAMI as a mental illness advocacy organization. Compared to the NRA, NAMI is kind of like second string JV in terms of quality and effectiveness. NAMI simply is not aggressive enough. NAMI does like to ask for a lot of donations, however.
NAMI also is more for the parents and family of the people afflicted with severe mental illness. Rather than trying to directly involve the people who have the illnesses. I'd be willing to bet you are either more a caretaker or a doctor who helps to treat these people, than a patient yourself, based upon your writing.
I dont agree with you about relying totally on advocacy organizations. The membership of the advocacy organizations has to vote consistently on the issues for the advocacy organization to be effective. As I stated earlier, that very simple reason is the reason the NRA is so effective. And it is very effective.
If 95% of sufferers of these illnesses voted consistent and also emailed their elected officials once or twice a year about these issues, severe mental illness would be much higher priority than it is. Its as simple as that.
Eric
> >
> Maybe we should move this to politics, before vitriol spill into the med board. Excuse me. But I always vote and always contribute to NAMI and follow their campaigns. So I am way above the curve here. But, for whom to you vote? I really want to know? The NRA candidate who wants to defund government? Or...? And I bet that legislators are really, really responsive to the rare email they receive that asks them to fund mental health.
>
> In MA, I have the luxury of knowing that my legislators actually care about this issue. I leave it to NAMiI to vet candidates. To vet candidates and lobby on my own would be more than a full-time job. That's why we have lobbying, advocacy groups like NAMI. I donate to NAMI. I read their literature. I know the state NAMI director and ask her about candidates.
>
> The idea that politics is all individual - I study A, vote for A, call A's office, etc -- is not workable. That's why we have advocacy organizations. I rely on them to do the homework and vote their slates.
Posted by baseball55 on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:46
In reply to Re: THE root cause of TRD is » baseball55, posted by LostBoyinNC45 on February 23, 2014, at 22:09:06
I'd be willing to bet you are either more a caretaker or a doctor who helps to treat these people, than a patient yourself, based upon your writing.
You'd bet wrong.
>
> If 95% of sufferers of these illnesses voted consistent and also emailed their elected officials once or twice a year about these issues, severe mental illness would be much higher priority than it is. Its as simple as that.
>
>The problem with that is that the mentally ill are not a homogenous group who are easily organized around a specific issue and who self-identify as advocates of that issue. When I was severely depressed, for example, I barely registered politics. My nephew suffers from schizophrenia and is barely able to stay out of the hospital.And, even if he or I were/had been in better shape, it's still unclear what legislation we would be pursuing. Do you have ideas here? I don't. More research funding for NIMH? My delegation already supports this. More funding for community mental health? My delegation supports this as well.
Beyond these issues, it's not clear what the federal government can/should do that will end TRD. Your position that TRD would end if the mentally ill would organize themselves is like saying that cancer would end if cancer victims organized themselves - well, they have (or rather their loved ones have) and it's helped increase funding for research. It hasn't eliminated cancer.
Also, despite your disdain for advocacy groups, cancer survivors and family/friends generally lobby based on recommendations from the ACS. JUst as NRA members lobby based on recommendations from the NRA.
I rely on NAMI, realizing that NAMI is poorly funded compared to other lobbying groups. The mentally ill and their allies are probably too overwhelmed by mental illness and its fallout and stigma to organize themselves the way those affected by cancer do.
>
>
> Eric
>
>
> > >
> > Maybe we should move this to politics, before vitriol spill into the med board. Excuse me. But I always vote and always contribute to NAMI and follow their campaigns. So I am way above the curve here. But, for whom to you vote? I really want to know? The NRA candidate who wants to defund government? Or...? And I bet that legislators are really, really responsive to the rare email they receive that asks them to fund mental health.
> >
> > In MA, I have the luxury of knowing that my legislators actually care about this issue. I leave it to NAMiI to vet candidates. To vet candidates and lobby on my own would be more than a full-time job. That's why we have lobbying, advocacy groups like NAMI. I donate to NAMI. I read their literature. I know the state NAMI director and ask her about candidates.
> >
> > The idea that politics is all individual - I study A, vote for A, call A's office, etc -- is not workable. That's why we have advocacy organizations. I rely on them to do the homework and vote their slates.
>
>
Posted by johnLA on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:46
In reply to Re: THE root cause of TRD is, posted by baseball55 on February 23, 2014, at 20:33:49
Posted by Willful on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:46
In reply to Re: THE root cause of TRD is » baseball55, posted by LostBoyinNC45 on February 23, 2014, at 22:09:06
The reason the NRA is effective, other than that apparently they have members with enough disposable cash to make sizeable donations, so that the organization is able to make sizeable donations to many politicians, to have lobbyists in Washington who pressure legislators to vote against gun control, and to push for their agenda.
Gun control advocates are often single-issue voters, and for this reason, the organization has unusual sway over the election of candidates-- their members vote consistently for ONE thing-- and that is freedom from any sort of restriction on the availability and dissemination of guns.
Many other people, who belong to various organizations, are not single-issue voters-- there are many issue that divide their loyalties,a nd they do not come out for any candidate who simply embraces their sole issue-- they support various candidates for various reasons. Nor are their organizations as wealthy and therefore as able to funnel funds into activities or ads or donations that are focuses solely on this one thing.
The same can be said of anti abortion voters, who are more powerful than other voters who can lean toward one or another candidates for many conflicting reasons.
There is no reason to assume that the mentally ill constitute some sort of single-issue voting bloc. They come from all walks of life, and are not focused simply and exclusively on improving treatment of mental illness particularly through election of candidates. Science doesn't respond simply to political power-- even if funding is available science can only proceed in those areas that are fertile and sufficiently advanced.
Your accusations against the mentally ill stem I think from lack of understanding of how electoral politics and science work-- and how much more able single-issue lobbies are able to bring people to the polls for their issue-- while other groups depend much more on various and fluctuating types of relevance to people's lives and voting decisions. You seem to be blaming the mentally ill for having more important things to worry about like jobs, health care in general, education, etc than their illnesses- and whose votes do not therefore always follow only one beaten path.
Posted by LostBoyinNC45 on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:47
In reply to Re: THE root cause of TRD is, posted by baseball55 on February 24, 2014, at 0:04:38
Im not bothering to reply to all the negative, defeatist, posters here who clearly are against the idea of mentally ill folks voting more consistently. And are against mentally ill writing an email or two or three a year with their Congressman and two federal Senators on federal funding for science research.
I really am kind of flabbergasted by the responses I get when I post on the subject of voting and writing legislators. It really does kind of leave me shaking my head. It really does leave me thinking "LOSERS," and not only that but it leaves me thinking, "a lot of these people actually WANT to be LOSERS."
I know clinical depression can make you really negative and defeatist and apathetic. So can schizophrenia and bipolar. Still though, the fact so many post here and write so much stuff on a regular basis...it really makes me wonder WHY so many here and elsewhere on similar Internet sites can post so much stuff (writing), yet refuse to take it offline and vote and write legislators on these mental illness subjects.
I have been told that some people with mental illness are paranoid regarding voting and emailing their legislators. That has never been my personal experience. But maybe that is what the deal is with some of the folks who post here and elsewhere. I dont know. It just stumps me.
As for excuses as to why you cant/wont/dont want to vote and write consistently, you can have your excuses. Excuses are for losers.
As far as the last post about the NRA being so effective as a lobby, NO, the reason the NRA is so effective as a lobby is very very simple. The NRA even admits it publicly. It stumps people even, its so simple. The NRA just has a membership that votes and writes legislators consistently. Its not donations to the NRA, its not that they have extra good trial lawyers as lobbyists, its not that they have gun companies supporting the NRA financially. Its the simple fact the vast NRA membership is willing to get off its duff every two years and vote for pro-2A candidates.
I see nothing even remotely approaching anything like that within the mental health advocacy community. If the mental health advocacy communist was serious about improving things for people with serious mental illness, they'd be on regular rallying campaigns to get YOU to vote regularly. Organizing you people like the Teamsters organize, getting you people registered to vote like ACORN did prior to comrade obama's first successful run for President in late summer and fall 2008.
Instead, mostly what NAMI does is ask for donations and provides support groups for families of people afflicted with serious mental illness. I dont call that a true mental health advocacy group.
Anyway, carry on. And I will check back in once every two years or so and see the same old names on here and see nothing much has changed for the better.
Eric AKA "LostBoyinNC"
Posted by LostBoyinNC45 on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:47
In reply to THE root cause of TRD is, posted by LostBoyinNC45 on February 21, 2014, at 23:09:09
I just thought Id throw out one last thing before I leave, as I find this forum depressing as hell. As a member of the gun culture, an NRA member and having suffered from severe mental illness for over fifteen years now, I have learned something new in recent years.
Many NRA member types favor involuntary, mass re-institutionalization of the mentally ill. Similar to what things were like before the eighties. Before the eighties, a lot of people on this forum, including possibly myself, would have been long term institutionalized in state run psychiatric hospitals.
Many NRA members favor mass involuntary institutionalization again because they see it as THE SOLUTION against these sorts of mass shootings we have been seeing lately. They'd rather see you guys put in the hole longterm than give up their 2A right. Sorry to put it so bluntly, but thats the way a lot of NRA people think and see things.
Thats yet another reason why the mentally ill should be voting more and emailing their legislators more. To defend themselves, basically.
Buh-bye,Eric, AKA LostBoyinNC
Posted by Willful on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:47
In reply to Re: THE root cause of TRD is, posted by LostBoyinNC45 on February 24, 2014, at 9:09:34
I dont' think anyone here is advocating that anyone not vote. As for voting, I always vote-- and so do others.
I see you criticizing the "mentally ill" as some sort of lump to do something-- and assuming they don't do anything-- but:
1. why do you keep saying 'you people" and 'these people"-- when in fact on your own account, you are one of "them"-- and it should be "we" and us"-- ?
2. what are you doing to mobilize "the" mentally ill? Coming to a support board and criticizing "you people" as "losers" etc-- assuming "these people" don't vote-- and then blaming, rather than trying to understand-- especially understanding in order to change?
3. and if people here don't respond in the way you like, telling us that we're depressing and you will check in to see how badly we're doing a few years from now?
It seems like you yourself are the one who has some issues you wanted to raise about how the NRA wants to institutionalize YOU. Since you have done nothing to make me care that much about you, and I pesonally am worried much more about other issues-- and you've done nothing to apprise me of any threat to my freedom by the NRA-- why should I do much except dismiss your criticisms as from an unkind member of the NRA, known to be unsympathetic to weak-willed "losers" such as myself? We all know the type of "red blooded Americans" that the NRA tends to favor.
Anyway, what are your struggles, other than fear of gun control and fear of institutionalization? Maybe you could use some support for them. And maybe over time you could let us in on the dangers we face and your ideas for solving them.
Posted by Christ_empowered on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:48
In reply to Re: THE root cause of TRD is, posted by Willful on February 24, 2014, at 9:56:47
My problem is that a lot of the same people who want research funds and money for treatment want to force it on people, in- or out-patient. I'm kinda a throwback to the 70s; treatment is good, but should be voluntary, community-based, and focused on recovery.
The NRA people aren't the only ones who want to bring back the state mental hospitals. I find this quite frightening. I'm more of a www.madinamerica.com kinda guy myself.
Posted by LostBoyinNC45 on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:48
In reply to Re: THE root cause of TRD is, posted by Willful on February 24, 2014, at 9:56:47
Uh, the replies Ive been getting here are not enthusiastic sounding regarding voting.
Just so you know, I actually favor involuntary institutionalization of most people with severe mental illnesses. I think the current system does not work except for those with "worried well" type psychiatric issues, mild depression, mild anxiety, etc.It has been my experience that most with severe forms of mental illness contribute nothing to society, yet take take take from society. Many are on SS disability or on welfare and live off of entitlements and lay around and post on forums such as these and watch daytime TV. And never get better.
I say if they want to live off the taxpayer longterm and do jack, make'em live in state run institutions. I bet a bunch would start taking their meds more, all of a sudden.
Eric
> I dont' think anyone here is advocating that anyone not vote. As for voting, I always vote-- and so do others.
>
> I see you criticizing the "mentally ill" as some sort of lump to do something-- and assuming they don't do anything-- but:
>
> 1. why do you keep saying 'you people" and 'these people"-- when in fact on your own account, you are one of "them"-- and it should be "we" and us"-- ?
>
> 2. what are you doing to mobilize "the" mentally ill? Coming to a support board and criticizing "you people" as "losers" etc-- assuming "these people" don't vote-- and then blaming, rather than trying to understand-- especially understanding in order to change?
>
> 3. and if people here don't respond in the way you like, telling us that we're depressing and you will check in to see how badly we're doing a few years from now?
>
> It seems like you yourself are the one who has some issues you wanted to raise about how the NRA wants to institutionalize YOU. Since you have done nothing to make me care that much about you, and I pesonally am worried much more about other issues-- and you've done nothing to apprise me of any threat to my freedom by the NRA-- why should I do much except dismiss your criticisms as from an unkind member of the NRA, known to be unsympathetic to weak-willed "losers" such as myself? We all know the type of "red blooded Americans" that the NRA tends to favor.
>
> Anyway, what are your struggles, other than fear of gun control and fear of institutionalization? Maybe you could use some support for them. And maybe over time you could let us in on the dangers we face and your ideas for solving them.
>
>
Posted by ihatedrugs1 on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:48
In reply to Re: I favor involuntary institutionalization, posted by LostBoyinNC45 on February 24, 2014, at 10:12:30
Posted by SLS on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:48
In reply to Re: I favor involuntary institutionalization, posted by LostBoyinNC45 on February 24, 2014, at 10:12:30
> Uh, the replies Ive been getting here are not enthusiastic sounding regarding voting.
No one has yet advocated abstention from voting or writing letters.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on February 24, 2014, at 20:09:58
In reply to Re: I favor involuntary institutionalization, posted by LostBoyinNC45 on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:48
I just read on another board that basically you are a troll. Is this true? Thanks Phillipa
Posted by SLS on February 24, 2014, at 23:20:40
In reply to Re: I favor involuntary institutionalization » LostBoyinNC45, posted by Phillipa on February 24, 2014, at 20:09:58
> I just read on another board that basically you are a troll. Is this true? Thanks Phillipa
I am not so sure that questioning a poster as to his status as a troll is entirely civil or productive, Phillipa. I understand your sentiments, though.
Suggesting that people vote and communicate with lawmakers is a simple idea in a complicated world. I do both. Nevertheless, it is possible that I will wake up to my 13,140th morning with TRD tomorrow. I'm pretty sure that my voting record at age 17 didn't produce my refractoriness to treatment. The idea is ludicrous and doesn't deserve too many more of my words to address it. Maybe my acts in the past and present will help eradicate mental illness in the future - just not necessarily in mine. I don't think that any of us can fully know how others experience life. This is as true for LostBoy as it is for SLS.
LostBoy...
You don't know enough about me to opine on my advocations.
Okay.
1. Write letters.
2. VoteGood ideas.
Thanks.
Was there anything else?
- Scott
Posted by Beckett on February 26, 2014, at 21:32:33
In reply to THE root cause of TRD is, posted by LostBoyinNC45 on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:33
I would infer that TRD exists because many sufferers are not wealthy enough to become lobbyists nor influence them.
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