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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 41. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by shar on July 15, 2002, at 23:39:40
I just happened to be perusing Matthew 7 (15 & 16) and came across this idea of people being known by their fruits:
"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? "
I like that idea of people being known by what they do vs. what they say. Or pretend to believe. I guess that is my interpretation.
S
Posted by shar on July 15, 2002, at 23:42:52
In reply to To no one in particular - part 1, posted by shar on July 15, 2002, at 23:39:40
I really like this part of Matthew because it has so many sayings that I grew up with, but never realized they were Bible sayings.
For example,
"Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. "
Or, don't cast your pearls before swine. I've always liked that one a lot.
S
Posted by shar on July 15, 2002, at 23:48:37
In reply to Re: To no one in particular - part 2, posted by shar on July 15, 2002, at 23:42:52
Then, there is this interesting one that I had been misinterpreting all these years. I always thought "ask and ye shall receive" meant that god will provide for his children (Matthew 7:7-8).
However, when you read the whole thing, it's really talking about the love of god. Ask for it and you will receive it. So, I understood better the limitations on granting requests, and why so many reasonable prayers go unanswered.
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. "
Posted by shar on July 15, 2002, at 23:56:46
In reply to Re: To no one in particular - part 3, posted by shar on July 15, 2002, at 23:48:37
"Judge not, that ye be not judged.
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam [is] in thine own eye?
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. "
I've always REALLY liked these ideas, and was raised with them during a time when all sorts of isms ran rampant...only not at my house. Now, my folks overdid it a bit because their philosophy was 'you're not better than anyone else and can't judge them' but it didn't end there. They went on to say, 'you are also not as good as anyone else, and should not even exist, so just shuddup.'
I'm not sure that's what Jesus meant, but then I guess he lives with the continual frustration of being misconstrued, or used for other people's purposes, and for other people's agendas and evil game playing.
S
Posted by shar on July 16, 2002, at 0:05:26
In reply to Re: To no one in particular - part 4, posted by shar on July 15, 2002, at 23:56:46
Matthew also has the verse where 'straight and narrow' came from. At my house, it was never really defined, just that we should be on it, but apparently rarely were.
I've come to appreciate the idea of 'straight and narrow' not in the sense of morality (vs. immorality) but in the sense that it is easier to live when one has defined one's own values, and what is and is not 'right,' or good, or ethical--and then lives that way. With definition our options become limited--if we stand by what we believe is right, there are only a few ways to go.
It's sort of like lying--it's easier not to. There isn't as much to remember, etc.
Anyhow, these passages also talked about gates, and not pearly ones. So, that was new for me to see.
"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. "
verses 7:13-14
Posted by shar on July 16, 2002, at 0:16:36
In reply to Re: To no one in particular - part 5, posted by shar on July 16, 2002, at 0:05:26
And, lest we forget, the golden rule. At least, I think this is the origin of one of them. There are golden rules out the wazoo, actually. Just about every religion has some expression of treating others the way you want to be treated. Now, some of these religions predate Christianity by eons--so I guess it showing up in the Bible just goes to emphasize that all time is now.
"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. "
Matthew 7:12
(now, even tho it says men, it doesn't mean to leave out women. Women were not actually people yet during Bible times, so they didn't even count. They were chattel. Like cattle or real estate. And, according to the version of the Bible commissioned by King James, they pretty much had all of the responsibilities and none of the rights accorded to actual persons.)
All this is just my own opinion, of course. But, Matthew is an interesting book, and I was just looking at chapter 7.
S
Posted by shar on July 16, 2002, at 0:18:36
In reply to Re: To no one in particular - part 6, posted by shar on July 16, 2002, at 0:16:36
I just thought I'd post all this for grins. No big meaning. I started with another idea but got too absorbed in Matthew to follow up on it.
So be it.
S
Posted by Dinah on July 16, 2002, at 3:20:16
In reply to Re: To no one in particular - part 7, posted by shar on July 16, 2002, at 0:18:36
Or should we restrict it to Matthew. (I always seem to start with Matthew and run out of steam, and start with Matthew again.) I should be able to come up with a few by tomorrow.
I don't have the references offhand, but I also like the golden rule (and its Jewish counterpart - Don't do to anyone what you wouldn't like done to yourself). And the other standards of loving-kindness. Above all love the Lord your God with all your strength. And secondly love your neighbor as yourself. And of course, That which you do to the least of my brothers, so you do unto me. Those are paraphrases of course. I don't have a bible handy in front of me. And I know how dangerous it is to paraphrase the bible. I was just inspired by your thread and moved to post. I'll check my accuracy tomorrow and correct as necessary.
Posted by Phil on July 16, 2002, at 5:20:18
In reply to Re: To no one in particular - part 5, posted by shar on July 16, 2002, at 0:05:26
When we exercise discipline, we're more free and spontaneous. That's what I hear, anyway.
Posted by Phil on July 16, 2002, at 5:56:33
In reply to To no one in particular - part 1, posted by shar on July 15, 2002, at 23:39:40
First time I read this, it blew me away. Kinda long, fom PHILippians 4.
Rejoice in the Lord always: and again I say, Rejoice. Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.
Be careful for nothing; but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
(I'll paraphrase) Finally, whatsoever things are true, honest, just,pure, lovely, or of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
Those things, which you have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.
((Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content.
I know how to be abased, and I know how to abound:
every where and in all things I am instructed to be full and to be hungry, both abound and to suffer need.))
I can do all things through Christ which strengheneth me.Thank you apostle Paul. Those words have meant everything to me. I'm still amazed when I read them.
Thanks, Shar for getting me to open this book again.
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 16, 2002, at 7:32:20
In reply to To no one in particular - part 1, posted by shar on July 15, 2002, at 23:39:40
Shar,
Thank you for mentioning "The wolves in sheep's clothing."
I was revealed that the "wolves in sheep's clothing" are people that appear as "shepards", for they have on garments of a shephed, and you would think that they are shepherds by he way they re clothed. So just because a person looks like a shephrd, that doesn't mean that they really are. In fact, they could be ravenous wolves. They also have a "flock" that they are shepherding. So which shepherd is ral and which is a "wolf in sheep's clothing"?
I will , next, tell of what I found out abut that.
Lou
Posted by Dinah on July 16, 2002, at 7:38:52
In reply to The wolves in sheep's clothing » shar, posted by Lou Pilder on July 16, 2002, at 7:32:20
But I am enjoying this very positive thread Shar started on favorite verses.
Perhaps we could leave this one the way it is to gain momentum, and put discussion of any particular verses on a separate thread.
I myself had thoughts about the judge not verse, but I'm planning to start a new thread to discuss it.
Wouldn't it be great to keep this one rolling? Then it would be able to generate a lot of discussion on other threads?
Thanks,
Dinah
Posted by Dinah on July 16, 2002, at 7:43:52
In reply to Lou, I would love to hear it..., posted by Dinah on July 16, 2002, at 7:38:52
I certainly didn't mean that in any way to tell you where to post or anything. This just seemed like it could be one of those quickly rolling threads that could really perk up the Faith board, and I thought it would be terrific to keep up the momentum.
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 16, 2002, at 7:44:22
In reply to The wolves in sheep's clothing » shar, posted by Lou Pilder on July 16, 2002, at 7:32:20
Shar,
when I was in the City of Peace, I asked about how we could know the true shepherds from the wolves in sheep's clothing. The Rider turned to us and said, " What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after th one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it,he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to thm, "Rejoice with me, for I hae found my sheep which was lost" I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one lost sheep that is found than over ninety-nine sheep that never went astray."
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 16, 2002, at 8:07:04
In reply to Re: Lou, one more thing..., posted by Dinah on July 16, 2002, at 7:43:52
Dinah,
Are you implying that if I tell what I experianced that my post would stop the momentum?
Lou
Posted by Dinah on July 16, 2002, at 8:12:21
In reply to Re: Lou, one more thing... » Dinah, posted by Lou Pilder on July 16, 2002, at 8:07:04
Of course not. And I apologize profusely if I offended. I suppose I just saw this thread as a swiftly flowing river of favorite quotes, giving rise to tributary threads of discussion. But it's not my thread anyway, and I apologize for my suggestion. And I do see that if you started a new thread now, you would break up the momentum of your own discussion.
Many humble apologies to both Shar and Lou.
Posted by Dinah on July 16, 2002, at 8:14:47
In reply to No No Lou..., posted by Dinah on July 16, 2002, at 8:12:21
Posted by Dinah on July 16, 2002, at 8:21:55
In reply to How about I start a new thread (nm), posted by Dinah on July 16, 2002, at 8:14:47
I fear I have distressed you. And that was not my intention.
Will you forgive me?
Posted by Dinah on July 16, 2002, at 9:20:24
In reply to No No Lou..., posted by Dinah on July 16, 2002, at 8:12:21
I apologize for being so presumptuous with your thread. It's just that it filled me with such enthusiasm at such positive possibilities.
A remorseful,
Dinah
Posted by shar on July 16, 2002, at 11:23:20
In reply to Re: One of my favorite passages....thanks, Shar, posted by Phil on July 16, 2002, at 5:56:33
That is beautiful, and I can see why it means a lot to you. Of course, it being part of PHILippians doesn't hurt, I guess...8-)
Did I tell you my Bible has the Book of SHARippians? I'll quote some from it later.
:)
Shar
Posted by shar on July 16, 2002, at 11:34:25
In reply to The wolves in sheep's clothing » shar, posted by Lou Pilder on July 16, 2002, at 7:32:20
I like this one a lot too, it contains a good general warning about "face value." Being pretty loose in interpreting it, to me it means anyone who presents an untrue face to the world (not limited to a 'shepherd'). Like one who manipulates situations, or plays dirty, or has a hidden agenda, or feeds on the powerless ones among us, or continues to do something that is obviously hurtful even while saying they only want to help....gee, there are thousands of examples, large and small.
To me, those are all forms of 'evil' to one degree or another. And I think it's cool that god took the time to warn us about it and warns us to "watch" what people do more than listen to their words.
And, of course, when applied to myself, to pay attention to what I DO and how it aligns with what I SAY.
S
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 16, 2002, at 11:43:41
In reply to Re: To no one in particular - part 6, posted by shar on July 16, 2002, at 0:16:36
> And, lest we forget, the golden rule. At least, I think this is the origin of one of them. There are golden rules out the wazoo, actually. Just about every religion has some expression of treating others the way you want to be treated.
FWIW, the FAQ links to a page with a number of them:
http://www.silcom.com/~origin/sbcr/sbcr233
including the one you posted.
Bob
Posted by shar on July 16, 2002, at 11:46:44
In reply to Is it favorite New Testament quotes?, posted by Dinah on July 16, 2002, at 3:20:16
I will let you in on a secret about the online search for Bible quotes. I had the one in mind about 'by your fruits you'll be known' and of course did not know what book/chapter/verse it was in, so...... went to...
www.blueletterbible.org where they have a search engine where you can enter verses, or keywords, and that's what I used. So, I had Matthew 7 open in a window and could refer to it while I wrote the posts.
It wasn't so much a striving for exact quotes and references as it was not wanting to take 3 verses from 2 different books, jumble them up into one verse, post it here and say "that's my favorite." I thought it would be good if it at least had some semblance to what was actually in the Bible.
8-D
(what I'm trying to say is don't worry about exactness, or if you do, the online help might be worth checking out.)
Shar
Posted by shar on July 16, 2002, at 11:51:44
In reply to Re: the golden rule, posted by Dr. Bob on July 16, 2002, at 11:43:41
Thank you, Dr. B.
THE ONENESS OF THE HUMAN FAMILY
Compiled by the Temple of Understanding, a global interfaith organization
Baha'i: "Blessed is he who preferreth his brother before
himself." -- Baha'u'llah, Tablets of Baha'u'llah, 71Buddhism: "Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find
hurtful." -- Udana-Varga, 5:18Christianity: "All things whatsoever ye would that men should do
to you, do ye even so to them." -- Jesus, in Matthew 7:12Confucianism: "Do not unto others what you would not have them do
unto you." -- Analects 15:23Hinduism: "This is the sum of duty: do naught unto others which
would cause you pain if done to you." -- Mahabharata 5:1517Islam: "No one of you is a believer until he desires for his
brother that which he desires for himself." -- SunnahJainism: "In happiness and suffering, in joy and grief, we should
regard all creatures as we regard our own self."
-- Lord Mahavira, 24th TirthankaraJudaism: "What is hateful to you, do not to your fellow man. That
is the law: all the rest is commentary." -- Talmud, Shabbat 31aNative American: "Respect for all life is the foundation."
-- The Great Law of PeaceSikhism: "Don't create enmity with anyone as God is within
everyone." -- Guru Arjan Devji 259, Guru Granth SahibZoroastrianism: "That nature only is good when it shall not do
unto another whatever is not good for its own self."
-- Dadistan-i-Dinik, 94:5Compiled by the Temple of Understanding, a global interfaith organization
http://www.silcom.com/~origin/sbcr/sbcr233
Posted by Dinah on July 16, 2002, at 12:52:09
In reply to Re: Is it favorite New Testament quotes? » Dinah, posted by shar on July 16, 2002, at 11:46:44
Thanks Shar, I bookmarked it. It should make it a lot easier to figure out where to look.
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