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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Roo on July 8, 2002, at 13:05:03
I've recently gone off meds to try alternative methods
of dealing with my depression....spirituality, regular meditation,
etc. But I think I still need the meds...it's just too hard.
sometimes I feel like a "failure" because my faith or spirit
doesn't seem strong enough to make it without meds...I know this
is probably the depression talking...
Posted by beardedlady on July 8, 2002, at 17:03:37
In reply to Anyone use spirituality rather than meds?, posted by Roo on July 8, 2002, at 13:05:03
Would you feel like that if you had asthma? Or diabetes? What about allergies?
Many things, especially meditation and spirituality, can make a difference where illness is concerened—in the frequency of outbreaks or occurrences, but especially in the whole mental outlook on life. But some illnesses need treatment with medicine. It's not as if severe depression, bipolar disorder, obsessive/compulsive disorder, etc. are colds, in that you can simply relieve the bad symptoms for awhile if you feel like it, or you can remain strong until the illness passes.
You shouldn't be so hard on yourself. It's great to take a med vacation, but don't give yourself so many expectations you may not be able to live up. You probably have more than a cold.
My best advice would be to use spirituality in conjunction with the meds you need.
beardy
Posted by tabitha on July 9, 2002, at 1:47:59
In reply to Anyone use spirituality rather than meds?, posted by Roo on July 8, 2002, at 13:05:03
Roo,
I hate to see you blaming yourself for not being able to control symptoms without meds-- you just might be trying to do the impossible.The way I think of it is, there are many things that help with symptoms, like meditation, exercise, yoga, etc. But without meds, I end up spending nearly all of my energy in life trying to control symptoms, or hide them, or work around them. I'd rather let the meds do most of that job for me, and let my own self-care efforts take care of the rest.
One definition of spirituality that I like is that it's just expressing and growing your unique self. Depression and other symptoms just get in the way of this.
Best wishes,
tabitha
Posted by Roo on July 9, 2002, at 8:50:51
In reply to Re: Anyone use spirituality rather than meds?, posted by tabitha on July 9, 2002, at 1:47:59
Thanks Tabitha--this really helps. That's how I feel
too--I can use the spirituality and meditation--but it takes
so much energy, and i'm usually ALL my damn energy, ALL day
long trying to deal with the negative thoughts...I want life
to be more than trying to keep my head above water.
I've had some effexor xr samples that my doc has been wanting me
to try, and I finally broke down and took one today. I hope they start
helping soon with minimum side effects. Have you any any experience with
this drug?
Posted by fachad on July 9, 2002, at 9:44:29
In reply to Anyone use spirituality rather than meds?, posted by Roo on July 8, 2002, at 13:05:03
The way I look at this is that a human being exists on many levels. The physical layer, the body, nerves, neurotransmitters are the most fundamental level.
Above that is the psyche, the mind, the personality, etc. This level has emergent properties that cannot be reduced to the physical, but it depends on the physical layer for its existence.
And above that is the spirit. This level also has further emergent properties that are beyond the psyche, but it depends on both the physical and the psychic levels for its existence.
Depression develops and manifests at many different levels of our being.
I believe that one of the biggest problems with the method of psychiatry today is that the label of "depression" is very broad and is based on external symptoms, rather than inner causes.
For example, you could have depression caused from biological factors (physical), or depression caused by maladaptive behavior patters (psyche) or you could have depression based on a spiritual crisis (spirit), and because the external symptoms are similar, a modern pdoc would code the diagnosis "depression" in all three cases.
This situation is further complicated by the fact that all three layers of our being can exert influence on the other layers.
For example, a long period of physical illness can trigger a physical depression, but it can also breed negative thinking patters, and cause psychic depression. Further, you can even "get mad at God" and end up in a spiritual depression.
Therefore it is best to utilize modalities that promote healing on all levels. Medication can be very effective, but it will never really resolve a behavioral problem, or a spiritual problem. Conversely, behavioral changes and spiritual practice will not (usually) resolve a physical problem.
To rely on spiritual practice exclusively is as inadequate as relying on medication exclusively (which is sadly very common). Both approaches are doomed to failure because they ignore critical components of our being.
So, unless you are certain that your suffering is entirely spiritual in nature, medication is probably a good idea. Even if your problem is primarily spiritual, medication may provide you with the stability on the physical layer that is needed to develop and maintain stability on the psychic layer that is in turn needed to and benefit from a spiritual practice.
> I've recently gone off meds to try alternative methods
> of dealing with my depression....spirituality, regular meditation,
> etc. But I think I still need the meds...it's just too hard.
> sometimes I feel like a "failure" because my faith or spirit
> doesn't seem strong enough to make it without meds...I know this
> is probably the depression talking...
Posted by tabitha on July 9, 2002, at 10:12:53
In reply to Re: Anyone use spirituality rather Tabitha, posted by Roo on July 9, 2002, at 8:50:51
I'd encourage you to try the effexor, and if it doesn't work, try something else. I did use effexor for a while and it worked for me, but I had some hair loss that I thought might be related (I was never sure) so I switched to celexa. I seem to respond well to all ADs, it's just a matter of choosing the one with the least side effects.Just to make sure we don't get redirected over to PB, I'll mention that my meditation is going well. I think I'm up to 20 minutes. I'm going to try the lovingkindness "metta" meditation also, where you do affirmations toward yourself, then a friend, then a neutral person, then an enemy.
tabitha
Posted by Roo on July 9, 2002, at 10:35:38
In reply to Re: Anyone use spirituality rather » Roo, posted by tabitha on July 9, 2002, at 10:12:53
That's funny, Tabitha--we're on the same wave-length...
I've been doing just the regular meditation for awhile, but
recently I have been wanting to start doing loving-kindness meditation...
I guess b/c I have been having what I judge as "petty" feelings
irrational anger towards other people (I think it's really just my
depression coming back from being off meds), that I thought maybe
practicing loving kindness would help that feeling of bitterness..
I actually have a guided loving-kindness tape that I'm going to use to
start with for awhile...if you want, I can make a copy for you and send it
to you if you feel like it would be helpful...It's weird, I don't know if it's purely psychological or what, but
I feel a little more positive after just taking one really low dose effexor
pill...well, whatever it is, I am just relieved...that was hellish.
Posted by tabitha on July 9, 2002, at 22:59:33
In reply to Re: Anyone use spirituality rather Tabitha, posted by Roo on July 9, 2002, at 10:35:38
> recently I have been wanting to start doing loving-kindness meditation...
I saw a website that said it was particularly good for depression, since it's not so inward-focused as other types of meditation.
> I actually have a guided loving-kindness tape that I'm going to use to
> start with for awhile...if you want, I can make a copy for you and send it
> to you if you feel like it would be helpful...you don't need to go to the trouble, but if you ever want to email I'm at silverfish2 at aol dot com.
>
> It's weird, I don't know if it's purely psychological or what, but
> I feel a little more positive after just taking one really low dose effexor
I get the same way after making a pdoc appointment. I think that's "placebo" effect, you feel better since you're taking positive steps. Whatever it is, I'll take it :0-tabitha
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