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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 35 to 59 of 60. Go back in thread:
Posted by Poet on September 2, 2006, at 16:10:12
In reply to Re: Second Job Interview » Poet, posted by Dinah on September 2, 2006, at 9:27:50
Hi Dinah,
I can try. Not this weekend. I need to lick my wounds. My T is on vacation, I don't see her until Sept. 14, so I may end up at Camp Comfort. She did call me yesterday. It's not like she can get me a job, but she understands why I'm so down. Poor thing, a nice vacation ruined by a depressed Poet.
Poet
Posted by Racer on September 2, 2006, at 16:54:22
In reply to Re: Second Job Interview, posted by Poet on September 2, 2006, at 16:10:12
That's pretty good advice, what Dinah suggested. Despite her sordid past, she's a smart one...
I'd also suggest the inverse of it: make a list of people you admire or respect or like who have NOT suceeded in the employment world. You can use people like Ogden Nash, who really didn't do all that well writing advertising copy; or you can use people you know, like FineLineBob, who's got so much going for him, but claims to be the ultimate employment loser. Ask yourself which list contains people with the attributes you value most.
Another option is just plain to write down everything that you think career success would bring you. What does it really mean to you?
For what it's worth, despite things like not being able to support myself, etc, teaching horseback riding made me feel much more successful than being assistant accounting manager at a huge, international law firm. ;-)
Posted by Deneb on September 2, 2006, at 20:32:17
In reply to Hired Someone Else- Interview Cancelled, posted by Poet on August 31, 2006, at 15:32:58
Hi Poet,
I think you can recognize that saying you are a loser is a distortion in thought.
Would you think all the other applicants are losers? I don't think you would. What makes you different?
It takes a lot of guts to go through job interviews and you obviously did well at that first interview.
I have a lot of trouble with thinking I'm a loser too. I should have graduated already, but I haven't and so I think I'm a loser.
My self esteem and self worth shouldn't be contingent on my achievements. I am of value even if I flunk out of university.
Deneb*
Posted by Jost on September 2, 2006, at 20:51:43
In reply to Re: Second Job Interview » Poet, posted by Racer on September 2, 2006, at 16:54:22
Can you imagine Van Gogh on a job interview?
Interviewer: "Uh, Sir, could you explain the seeming absence of part of one of your ears? It was not in any way the cause of your losing your last job, I hope?"
VG: I haven't had time for a job; for the past years I've devoted myself singlemindedly to the pursuit of my art, to the love of all that is spiritual, and to the passionate attempt to learn how to draw. Also paint. I have also spent some time in a fine institution on the other side of town. I was forced to cut off part of my ear due to the pain I experienced upn being abandoned by my master and co-worker, a fellow seeker named Paul Gaugin, who.....
I: I see!?
VG: Yes! That ingrate, whom I loved as a brother and compatriot, sojourned here to the countryside to be my collaborator in the development of a new....
I: Har-umph! Sir! Sir!.."
.VG: .."a new and remarkable school of painting and the...
I: My Good Sir! Thank you for your time, Sir..... Guards.....!!!"
VG: But!... I must explain!: my love for Gaugin and his terrible abandonment....
I: (loudly) Next?"
Jost
Posted by Poet on September 4, 2006, at 0:00:42
In reply to Re: Hired Someone Else- Interview Cancelled » Poet, posted by Deneb on September 2, 2006, at 20:32:17
Hi Deneb,
You are right that self esteem and self worth shouldn't be contingent on achievements. I just can't seem to find what will give me either of them.
You're also right that my saying that I am a loser is distortion in thought. I started therapy because I wanted help accepting failure. As I wrote that I immediately thought, I'm a loser in therapy, too.
Why can't I just think like a normal person on career? I'll be in therapy forever. Sigh.
Poet
Posted by Poet on September 4, 2006, at 0:04:30
In reply to Re: Second Job Interview » Poet, posted by Racer on September 2, 2006, at 16:54:22
Hi Racer,
Dinah is pretty darn smart. So are you.
I can try writing what career success would bring me, but it won't be easy. Because I know it would bring me happiness and nothing else will. Go ahead, hit me.
Poet
Posted by Poet on September 4, 2006, at 0:07:14
In reply to Re: Second Job Interview, posted by Jost on September 2, 2006, at 20:51:43
Hi Jost,
Thank you for making me laugh at my own negative thinking.
At least I have both my ears, so that's not why I got turned down...
Poet
Posted by Racer on September 4, 2006, at 0:32:17
In reply to Good advice » Racer, posted by Poet on September 4, 2006, at 0:04:30
> Hi Racer,
>
> Dinah is pretty darn smart. So are you.
>
> I can try writing what career success would bring me, but it won't be easy. Because I know it would bring me happiness and nothing else will. Go ahead, hit me.
>
> PoetS'OK, when I read your first sentence, my first thought was, "fat lot of good *that* does me..." Guess we flock together, huh?
Listen, here's a deal for you:
You're funny as [torrid climate], and I've been saying for ages that my nightmare would be exorcised if I could make it into a novel. Why don't we egg each other on and write those dang things? You can write a screenplay, or a fully volume of poetry, or a novel, or a 250 page grocery list, for that matter! I'll write what happened to me, and call my heroine something we'd both like -- we could work that out.
It might not improve anything for either of us, and I still might wake up at 4AM shaking and crying, and you still might work for a company with "F" in its name -- but it would give us some focus, and a reason for weekly updates, right?
Besides, we might become rich and famous -- and have to retire our crowns, step down from our rightful places in the pantheon of losers...
Posted by Jost on September 4, 2006, at 1:07:19
In reply to {Pow!} Let's Make A Deal » Poet, posted by Racer on September 4, 2006, at 0:32:17
Posted by Poet on September 4, 2006, at 17:57:11
In reply to {Pow!} Let's Make A Deal » Poet, posted by Racer on September 4, 2006, at 0:32:17
Hi Racer,
I'm game. First we need a title. Then a lead character. Then some support characters...
Poet
Posted by llrrrpp on September 6, 2006, at 23:07:12
In reply to Re: {Pow!} Let's Make A Deal » Racer, posted by Poet on September 4, 2006, at 17:57:11
I think it's going to be awesome.
Will there be a recipe for crab cakes?
With there be an opportunity for me to write in my name?
"THIS BOOK BELONGS TO ______llrrrpp_______"
?
fondly, to my favorite poet, and my favorite essayist/(narrator? well, you know what I mean- paragraphs/stories/tall tales/epics
I will even buy a new bookmark to mark my place.
can I do some calligraphy for one of the illustrations?yours fondly, in happy anticipation and vivid imagination,
-ll
Posted by Jost on September 6, 2006, at 23:33:12
In reply to Re: {Pow!} Let's Make A Deal » Racer, posted by Poet on September 4, 2006, at 17:57:11
Okay:
Two people who live near one another, although they don't know it, become friends on a psychology message board.Here are two plot ideas:
One: they correspond on the Message board , revealing increasingly intimate details of their lives, etc, and interacting with some other characters on the message boards. Meanwhile their lives go through career disappointments and re-structuring, and the vicissitudes of living with husbands, cats, a meeting with a difficult, but inspiring math teacher who initially is skeptical of the student's aspirations, but who, as a deep thinker and spirit, takes the student under her wing, on trips to Europe (or Canada, or wherever) and adopting her as a spiritual "goddaughter."
There is some sort of sexual tension, but neither teacher or student pursues it, except the student, after doing brilliant work, and moving through struggles about ambition and risk, finally leaves to pursue a graduate education in Math.
Meanwhile our other heroine, initially, dejected by her career failures, and the discouragements of various headhunters, realizes that her true life vocation is as a healer ,and poet. She writes a book of poetry about her infatuation with her online friend, whom she calls her "Light Woman." It is a difficult book of lyric invention, but startles the poetry world, with its inventive wordplay and golden-tongued odic structure.
Suddenly, the two meet, on the plane where one is travelling to her new graduate future, and the other is on a book tour to read a the 92nd st. Y in New York.....
(or you could go for a darker plot/ending, but maybe not...)
There's another plot, but it's a bit more exotic.
Jost
Posted by Poet on September 7, 2006, at 9:00:34
In reply to Re: {Pow!} Let's Make A Deal » Poet, posted by llrrrpp on September 6, 2006, at 23:07:12
Hi llrrrpp,
Right now I can guarantee you that there 's a place for you to write you name, because all we have is blank pages. ;)
Chef Racer will have to come up with the crab cakes recipe. I have problems not burning toast. Hey, maybe it could be mystery: the Crab Cake Conspiracy? If we have illustrations I'm sure we could use some crab cake calligraphy.
I am getting way ahead of myself. We don't even have characters. Am I obsessed with the letter C today or what?
Poet
Posted by Poet on September 7, 2006, at 9:04:48
In reply to Re: {Pow!} Let's Make A Deal » Poet, posted by Jost on September 6, 2006, at 23:33:12
Hi Jost,
I can't even come up with beginnings that aren't dark.
I like your story, maybe if you just add a few chapters and sign my name to the contract...
Just out of curiosity how exotic is the other story?
Poet
Posted by Jost on September 7, 2006, at 14:03:59
In reply to Re: {Pow!} Let's Make A Deal » Jost, posted by Poet on September 7, 2006, at 9:04:48
Although fiction doesn't have to be autobiographical.
But it could be dark, too.
Give me a few minutes and I'll re-work it. (Are we going for a popular, commercially-successful type of novel, or a more serious, "critically-successful" type?)
If I recall (dimly), I was thinking, the two posters on the message board would each be posting, using names of the other gender-- so the woman would be posting with a male name and and the man would be posting with a female name-- or we (or should I say, you) could do two women posting with men's names--but I thought maybe that wasn't so appealing, although it could have a cult (or more specialized) audience.
The question is how to interweave that with the RLives, so that they were posting about their actual lives, but somehow transposing the details--also what it's like to think of yourself as of a nother gender and how to present that-- but I mean not in a politically correct or stereotypical way-- which I wouldn't like and would be horribly formulaic-- but if you just went with it-
And I guess somehow they would meet and recognize something about one another-- could be gimmicky-- but if you didn't go with the gimmick, but just used it more seriously, it might (or might not) go somewhere.
I'm not sure.
I can come up with other ideas. Ihe dark thing is probably the most interesting-- but I didn't want to suggest that because it could be depressing, which would be counter-productive-- I think-- or could be. Not too dark, but darkish-- but I won't sign on to a super-dark ending, or a vague, ambiguous, who knows ending-- maybe a more Henry Jamesian ending (whatever that is...)
Jost
Posted by llrrrpp on September 7, 2006, at 14:12:56
In reply to Re: {Pow!} Let's Make A Deal » Poet, posted by Jost on September 7, 2006, at 14:03:59
Successful, schmuchcessful.
I don't care about critics, or nothing. I just wanna book that has some interesting things in it, and some personality. I just wanna read or look at something that makes me think and want to think.
It shouldn't be too hard, knowing Racer and Poet. They are awfully good at communicating using words. But they might freak out if they have to fill up 300 blank pages to satisfy some publisher!
I like the format Jost proposes: a series of posts to each other. anonymous on the WWW, revealing, yet concealing. And then, some day, the mental picture we have of a post-er coincides with the reality of the person we meet in real life. And there is a frightening, exhilharating nexxus where art and life stop imitating each other.
-ll
Posted by Jost on September 7, 2006, at 16:36:44
In reply to Re: {Pow!} Let's Make A Deal » Jost, posted by llrrrpp on September 7, 2006, at 14:12:56
Thanks, Ll!
I liked the idea of posts, because some of the early novels were in the form of letters-- and there's the added element of how one creates oneself-- or imagines oneself, esp in narrating oneself to oneself and to other people-- and the internet makes it more possible-- because in the epistolary novel, the people were supposedly already individual, formed selves, writing to someone who knew them-- also, it make me wonder how the way one images oneself is subject to conscious (or partly conscious) modification, and also whether the modifications can produce real change (maybe-- or maybe not? but it's a subject, anyway)
There were these early epistolary novels-- and they're really great--
It's a way that I think a contemporary novelist could get so much more into the inner lives of characters-- without having to be omnipotent, or use an artifiical, third person-- or an uncomfortable first person--
I think it could work--
Probably my favorite novel is Clarissa--- which is one of those-- but it's also probably the longest novel in the English language-- (there is an abridged version, which is pretty long, but it's such an amazing book--or I thought so a while back)
But of course you (Poet and Racer) would need your own subject-- so I'm interested-- what subject(s), characters, or situations, would each of you be interested in???
Jost
Posted by llrrrpp on September 7, 2006, at 17:45:31
In reply to Re: {Pow!} Let's Make A Deal » llrrrpp, posted by Jost on September 7, 2006, at 16:36:44
HELP!!!!
scientist no understand literature
"epistolary novel"
"Clarissa"
I may have read it. Nope. don't think so.
scientist no remember literature
I was thinking of "Dear Mr. Henshaw"
little girl remembers that one well.
-ll
Posted by Racer on September 7, 2006, at 19:38:16
In reply to Re: {Pow!} Let's Make A Deal » Jost, posted by llrrrpp on September 7, 2006, at 17:45:31
A rite of passage for English Lit majors, I think...
I did like "Pamela: Or Virtue Rewarded" though... Mr Richardson was a visionary, of course. Much more creative -- in my not at all humble opinion on this matter -- than silly Fielding pup. (Although "Shamela" is funny -- made me make funny noises analogous to GG's {snort}s...)
(And just lemme say -- it's a pain in the behind when books with totally unrelated titles come up before the one I want. I went through nearly 200 titles before giving up and using the FULL title... Sheesh.)
Posted by Jost on September 7, 2006, at 22:40:24
In reply to lol Clarissa is... » llrrrpp, posted by Racer on September 7, 2006, at 19:38:16
That's interesting-- although I never read it until graduate school.
I guess if you can only be on one side, I'm on Richardson's side for sure--Fielding is so annoying, IMO-- although Richardson's side is the uncool side, no question.
I do wonder if I'd still like it--
It's so over the top-- which usually appeals to me. But I sometimes reread things from graduate school and wonder what was going on in my mind--
Have you ever read Villette (by Charlotte Bronte)?
Jost
Posted by Jost on September 7, 2006, at 22:44:08
In reply to Re: {Pow!} Let's Make A Deal » Jost, posted by llrrrpp on September 7, 2006, at 17:45:31
Aw you scientists are so cute.
Scientist must read more fiction. Scientist must become verbal.
Therefore I prescribe a full course of Clarissa for scientist, once daily at bedtime. Sure to produce deep sleep rapidly.
Continue until full prescription used up. May last for many years possibly decades, no refills possible (or necessary).
Email if by some chance you need further prescriptions.
Jost
Posted by Racer on September 8, 2006, at 0:11:38
In reply to Re: lol Clarissa is... » Racer, posted by Jost on September 7, 2006, at 22:40:24
> > Have you ever read Villette (by Charlotte Bronte)?
>
> JostFirst off, since someone has to tell you ;-), if you put that in a double set of double quotation marks, it'll link to it at Amazon...
Yeah, I read Villette way the heck back there, although I hardly remember it. I do remember I was never much impressed by Charlotte Bronte, though. "Wuthering Heights," of course, is one of the most romantic novels out there, proving that Emily was brilliant in that sense -- very poetic, you know? But Anne Bronte was my favorite: "The Tenant of Wildfell Hall" is very, very high on my list of all time favorites, as is "Agnes Grey." Have you read either?
Maybe I should reread "Villette" sometime soon, see what I think now? I did reread "Tenant" not too long ago... Right before I read "Anthony Adverse" -- talk about a lifetime's work! lol I think it was what? 1250 pages?
Posted by llrrrpp on September 8, 2006, at 7:47:38
In reply to Double Double Quotes... » Jost, posted by Racer on September 8, 2006, at 0:11:38
> > > Have you ever read Villette (by Charlotte Bronte)?
> >
> > Jost
>
> First off, since someone has to tell you ;-), if you put that in a double set of double quotation marks, it'll link to it at Amazon...
>
> Yeah, I read Villette way the heck back there, although I hardly remember it. I do remember I was never much impressed by Charlotte Bronte, though. "Wuthering Heights," of course, is one of the most romantic novels out there, proving that Emily was brilliant in that sense -- very poetic, you know? But Anne Bronte was my favorite: "The Tenant of Wildfell Hall" is very, very high on my list of all time favorites, as is "Agnes Grey." Have you read either?
>
> Maybe I should reread "Villette" sometime soon, see what I think now? I did reread "Tenant" not too long ago... Right before I read "Anthony Adverse" -- talk about a lifetime's work! lol I think it was what? 1250 pages?Okay, Scientist make confession:
Scientist has read every Bronte book out there. I like them all. I can't remember any of them, but I remember that they were dark and personal and wonderful to get lost in.Scientist's last fiction read was "Lulu Incognito". Scientist's next fiction read will be... "Heavenly Days" I bought it because the cover is orange, and it didn't look too triggering.
Scientist also like to read Psycho-Babble. make me sleepy...
I have "War and Peace" but I'm saving it for cold weather. I like to read Russian stuff when it's winter. You know...
-ll
what's the "amniotic novel" or whatever it's called? No one ever told me what that word means. I'm too lazy to wikipedia. please help...
Posted by Jost on September 8, 2006, at 8:53:50
In reply to Re: Double Double Quotes... » Racer, posted by llrrrpp on September 8, 2006, at 7:47:38
I did like Villette when I first read it-- at the beginning of graduate school.
Then I read it right after I finished and I was really put off by the central character;s attitudes-- she seemed to be a really bitter, envious person, as opposed to this clear-eyed, and horribly denied, victim of cirumstances.
That was weird, because although I sometimes reread books (not often-- but I've reread Jane Austen and Proust, who are two of my favorites), but I've never felt so at odds from my original reading.
I read about 1/2 of Agnes Grey this year. What I liked about it was how easy, and unspectacular the style was-- it was a perfect voice--I mean even if there were occasional affectations or 19th centurism, it just was completely real as a voice. That was its weakenss too, I thought-- it never went in for fireworks, bon mots, turns of phrase, crescendos and decrescendos-- everything was steady, and delivered in this calm, simple tone.
I have to admit, that the heroine was also a bit of a bear. Always right and much better than everyone-- and cruelly beset by circumstances-- which I'm sure governesses were & all-- but at a certain point, I get contrary, and want to say-- oh, cut it out-- the self-righteous and insensitive boor who employed you did NOT do that! --- And the loud, cruel, disobedience, little ruffians did NOT not speak courteously to you, run amok in the garden,, hurt their hands (after having pulled the tail of long-suffering dog once too often), and then go running to their indifferent, but haughty parents screaming that it "was all Miss Agnes' fault..."
Then there was the weird-looking Lurch-like assistant preacher who obviously was going to be the love-interest and savior of our heroine, who would reject some more gaudy possiblity to lead a "small" life in the back country, where was she and the earnest Klutz (who would now be presented as much less klutzy and very good) undoubtedly would spread hope, industry, and light to all and sundry--- at least after they got together--which looked like it would take forever.
I mean I really felt bad that I couldn't finish it-- I think if Lurch had been good-looking I would have-- but the--" oh--what a strange and uncommonly plain, if not oafish man that assistant preacher is-- with his wall eye and pigeon toed limp," (this spoken, of course, by some more trifling acquaintance of dear Agnes) or whatever-- really did me in-- superificial twentieth-century creature that this reader is.
But the Bronte's all write so well.
I"ve never read War and Peace (aw....I also never read "The Brothers Karamazov", or so many things-- "Dead Souls", I never got through Dead Souls--- although I think the Russians novelists are great, if loony..) or "The Golden Bowl", actually.So many books, so little time.
Jost
Posted by Racer on September 8, 2006, at 21:22:17
In reply to Re: Double Double Quotes... » Racer, posted by llrrrpp on September 8, 2006, at 7:47:38
> > > >"Heavenly Days" I bought it because the cover is orange, and it didn't look too triggering.
>
lol I've purchased books because I liked their covers...But my best ever was whim triggered by title:
"B*mbos of the Death Sun!"
Who amongst you could resist?
(I highly recommend it. And the sequel, "Zombies of the Gene Pool...")
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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