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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Lamdage22 on August 11, 2013, at 6:39:42
In reply to Re: Supplements for Schizo-affective disorder, posted by Hugh on August 10, 2013, at 17:07:08
Interesting. What i wanna do for now is:
I wanna take the Lithium Orotate at 10mg elemental lithium
I wanna take a Magnesium Product (whats a good dosage?)I hear they are both chemicals with calming, stabilizing and mild antidepressant effects.
Then i want to take "Relora Plus" http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B006U90TOC/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3LS9RMBKLIJVP
Ingredients are the B-Vitamins in bioactive forms and two herbs.Then i am looking into both Glycine and Sarcosine(n-methylglycin). And other nmda modulating things.
I dont know about NAC.. since it send me a bit overboard once. I may end up taking 600mg for detox purposes.
Then i want to take L-Tryptophan.
And 300mg Seroquel of course. No need to experiment.
Criteria for a Supplements to jump on board of my treatment schedule are first and foremost that they do not require me to take a higher Antipsychotic dosage. And that they work in a calm, mild and pleasant fashion and DO NOT DESTABILIZE.
I will of course only experiment with these substances. One at a time. Otherwise i wont know what helps.
I will take Lithium Orotate without a worry or second guess. I dont care. Studies show Lithium in water supply reduce violence. Violence against self&others starts in the head so it must be doing something at that level.
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 11, 2013, at 7:14:56
In reply to Re: Supplements for Schizo-affective disorder, posted by Lamdage22 on August 11, 2013, at 6:39:42
I have serious trouble finding Sarcosine (N-Methylglycin) online.
I want to experiment with Glycine, which i found online as a powder (AFFORDABLE! kind of). Still pretty expensive.But Sarcosine (N-methylglycin) is a bummer. Nothing on UK Amazon.
Any other nmda site substances worth looking into?
Thank you!Scott, im not a doc but i dont approve of taking an antibiotic for that reason. If they make a non-antibiotic substance that does the same thing, alright maybe. But like this? I decline because i dont know what it will do to me long term.
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 11, 2013, at 7:27:46
In reply to Nmda agonists: Schizo-affective, posted by Lamdage22 on August 11, 2013, at 7:14:56
Can i take one 600mg NAC tablet every other day and still reap the benefits of detoxing heavy metals?
Or does NAC need to be taken daily? Scott, what u think?
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 11, 2013, at 8:33:45
In reply to Re: Nmda agonists: Schizo-affective, posted by Lamdage22 on August 11, 2013, at 7:27:46
Does it promote EMS? Dangerous? Or was that just that japanese company that had unwanted chemicals in it?
Whats a good Dosage? It seems to me that 3 grams/day divided into two doses is good.
One upon wakenig and an hour before breakfast. One 2,5 h after lunch. Both 1,5g doses.
Also i read that it is good to take it on a schedule to not get too much of some enzyme that inhibits Tryptophans effects.I read for first 3 weeks this Schedule is good:
Day 1-3 ON 3g
Day 4 OFF
Day 5-6 ON 3g
Day 7 OFF
Then for maintenance:
Day 1-2 OFF
Day 3 ON 3g
Day 4-5 OFF
Day 6 ON 3g
Day 7 OFFIs this true?
Also concerning Nmda: Glycin and Sarcosine.If i combine the two, prolly lower the dosage a bit in both right? I think i will try one after the other and then see whats better and combine them in some way, if they really are both helpful.
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 11, 2013, at 8:47:37
In reply to Is L-tryptophan dangerous? Tryptophan help pls., posted by Lamdage22 on August 11, 2013, at 8:33:45
Do the 3 Amino Acids i want to take: Tryptophane, Glycine and Sarcosine inhibit eachother when taken at the same time?
Please help me out with a dosing schedule.
Id take all the three of them in the morning 1h b4 breakfast.
Then Tryptophane and Sarcosine 2,5 h after lunch and the second dose of Glycine in the evening.
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 11, 2013, at 9:44:15
In reply to Re: Supplements for Schizo-affective disorder, posted by Lamdage22 on August 11, 2013, at 6:39:42
Empty Stomach 1h b4 breakfast:
Glycine, Sarkosin, Tryptophane (Wednesday and Saturday)
With breakfast:
1x Lithium Orotate 5mg
1x Magnesium Citramate 150mg
1x Relora Plus (Thorne)
2x Basic Nutrients V (Thorne)
1x NAC 600mg (Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday)With lunch:
1x Lithium Orotate 5mg
1x Magnesium Citramate 150mg
1x Relora Plus (Thorne)2,5h past lunch:
Sarcosine, Tryptophane (Wednesday and saturday)
Dinner:
1x Basic Nutrients V
Bedtime:
300mg Seroquel, Glycine.
I will add Lithium Orotate, Magnesium and Basic Nutrients V hopefully immedieately. Dont know because i have to ask my dear dear doctor.Anyway. I will do this one after another for the most part to see the effects.
Dont know exactly in what order but will figure out.
Posted by Tomatheus on August 11, 2013, at 21:51:34
In reply to Re: Supplements for Schizo-affective disorder, posted by Lamdage22 on August 11, 2013, at 9:44:15
Lamdage,
Have you been in contact with the naturopath in the U.S. that you mentioned earlier in this thread? If so, what thoughts does the naturopath have concerning your plans for supplementation?
T.
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 12, 2013, at 13:38:53
In reply to Re: Supplements for Schizo-affective disorder » Lamdage22, posted by Tomatheus on August 11, 2013, at 21:51:34
Hey Tomatheus,
my old Naturopath doesnt do practice anymore so she referred me to another one.
The big question will be, will a Psychiatrist on US soil treat me over the Phone or Skype while im in Germany?
She wont need to prescribe any medications, she just should speak through and monitor my experiments. Experiments sounds soo bad... I mean were talking about pretty safe and mild substances.
Anyway.. We will see.
I havent looked for one of the Psychiatrist AND Naturopath species here in Germany yet. Might be a tough one!?
Greetings!
Posted by Tomatheus on August 12, 2013, at 14:17:27
In reply to Contacted Psychiatrist + Naturopath. Same person, posted by Lamdage22 on August 12, 2013, at 13:38:53
Hi Lamdage,
Thanks for getting back to me. I don't know for sure whether or not the naturopath you're being referred to will be able to treat you while she's in the U.S. and you're in Germany. I mean, I would think that it would be possible for her to oversee your treatment, but I'm not completely sure.
Have you started taking your supplements yet? And are you still in the hospital, or have you been discharged? I think that it would be safest to wait until you talk to the naturopath that you were referred to (or any health-care professional) before starting the supplements, if you haven't already started them. Although I tend to see supplements as generally being milder and safer than prescription drugs, interactions can happen. I actually once had a really intense bad reaction when I tried taking a little bit of SAM-e (which I was taking sublingually at the time) with Korean ginseng. Strangely enough, though, I never had problems taking a liquid version of SAM-e with Korean ginseng. But anyway, the reason why I'm telling you this is just to let you know that interactions between supplements can happen, even though supplements may oftentimes be relatively mild in their effects. So, again, please be safe, but good luck.
T.
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 13, 2013, at 7:47:13
In reply to Re: Contacted Psychiatrist + Naturopath. Same person » Lamdage22, posted by Tomatheus on August 12, 2013, at 14:17:27
Im still in the hospital until i have my home in the town i grew up in. I dont like Bavaria cuz the state (politically) is huge and the citizen tiny. Also, i dont have my friends there.
I cant do anything in the hospital with supplements. I hope i wont be too depressed. Certainly im not doing drugs anymore except Seroquel.
Or an exiting new AP like Abilify comes up. You know the non-sedating, no weight gain antidepressant type Antipsychotic.
Until then i will stick it out with Seroquel.
Posted by Tomatheus on August 13, 2013, at 14:14:25
In reply to Re: Contacted Psychiatrist + Naturopath. Same person, posted by Lamdage22 on August 13, 2013, at 7:47:13
Hi Lamdage,
Thank you for your response. I hope that the rest of your hospitalization will go at least ok with you taking just the Seroquel, and I also hope that it won't be too much longer before you get out. I think that you have some good supplementation ideas, and I hope that if you do start on a regimen of supplements with your Seroquel after you get out of the hospital that you'll find them to be beneficial.
T.
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 14, 2013, at 11:46:13
In reply to Re: Contacted Psychiatrist + Naturopath. Same person » Lamdage22, posted by Tomatheus on August 13, 2013, at 14:14:25
Thx Tomatheus,
always supportive, always appreciated ;)
I think its cool, when they release me from the hospital feeling OK on Seroquel and i have a couple of "Jokers" in my hands.. to hopefully feel super OK;)
Im looking forward to furnishing my home. Its already furnished so basically a pillow and comforter and im good to go. But of course i wanna be comfortable in there, so it needs some work and im looking forward to do it.
And im doing a test when im on Seroquel only for driving. If that goes well im getting a car, a bike.. gosh im looking forward to it.
And some sort of computer-database type job. Nothing fancy, just staying busy and being social.:) So thank God, some of this "feeling a whole bit better" stayed with me!
I love being back with my old friends.
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 15, 2013, at 8:57:49
In reply to Re: Contacted Psychiatrist + Naturopath. Same person » Lamdage22, posted by Tomatheus on August 13, 2013, at 14:14:25
Alright the Zyprexa therapy is starting to really take its toll. Bin in bed all morning long today!
Lack of drive and detrimental effect on daily structure are my complaints. Now that i dont take Parnate in an amount worth mentioning anymore, the bed is magnetic for me.
Magically i end up in bed with no desire to do anything.
Unfortunately i didnt catch my doctor today.. He was like "yeah after the weekend we can reduce it by 2.5. Im not doing that. Zyprexa is harmful to my mental health at this point and i decline 7.5 tonight to take only five. Im not on this sh*t for more than another week, even if my doctor does a handstand infront of me!I hope he will stay professional and help me. I am compliant with Seroquel at no more than 300 and, pretty much non-compliant to everything else.
Id try prazosin for nightmaires thats about it.
I will do the supplements. Think its a good decision.
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 16, 2013, at 13:38:47
In reply to Refusing to continue Zyprexa, posted by Lamdage22 on August 15, 2013, at 8:57:49
Wohoo, Doc threatened to kick me out cuz i reduced Zyprexa on my own...
At the same time he threatens to kick me out if i dont go to the therapies.. Which clearly Zyprexa doesnt help with.
Im sorry, but they are all the same and they all like to lick butthole!
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 16, 2013, at 13:41:01
In reply to Re: Refusing to continue Zyprexa, posted by Lamdage22 on August 16, 2013, at 13:38:47
I dont give too much of a sh*t.
A good friend from SD Ymca told me: "Take sh*t from no one"
I want to honor this advice, because it is good.
Posted by Lao Tzu on August 18, 2013, at 11:01:33
In reply to Refusing to continue Zyprexa, posted by Lamdage22 on August 15, 2013, at 8:57:49
I have schizophrenia too. It is difficult to take the medicine when you are still sick. I've been stable for about 8 years now, and in the beginning I was very non-compliant with taking Risperdal tablets. What helped me was this: My doctor insisted that I be given Risperdal Consta injections every two weeks. It releases medicine into your system slowly and gently, not like the pills do. I was compliant with this, and within a year I was stable. Eventually, I went on the pills and I take them everyday without fail. Then I started the nutritional supplements later as I was getting better. Today, I am almost recovered. Still have some negative symptoms though, and my doctor told me about Clozaril. Supposed to help a lot with negative symptoms. The only drawback to this med is you have to get regular blood tests. So I just wanted to tell you what helped me get through this difficult time in my life. First, you must stabilize on some medication, then try the supplements, including a lot of B vitamins, fish oil, vitamins C and E, etc. I hope this was helpful to you.
Lao
Posted by Lao Tzu on August 18, 2013, at 11:07:51
In reply to Supplements for Schizo-affective disorder, posted by Lamdage22 on August 10, 2013, at 9:40:56
Yes, glycine, sarcosine, or serine might help. I haven't had great success with glycine, however. Get stabilized on antipsychotic medicine, the long-acting injections which you get every two weeks. I was getting Risperdal Consta. Once you are stabilized, look into the supplements. I take high dosages of B vitamins, Vitamins C and E, and fish oil. These supplements have helped tremendously once you are stabilized on the antipsychotics. Don't be afraid of the injections. They work slowly and gently, as opposed to the pills you have to take everyday. I didn't like the pills. However, once you are stabilized on the injections, you can switch over to the pills later.
Lao
Posted by Tomatheus on August 18, 2013, at 12:14:49
In reply to Re: Refusing to continue Zyprexa, posted by Lao Tzu on August 18, 2013, at 11:01:33
> Still have some negative symptoms though, and my doctor told me about Clozaril. Supposed to help a lot with negative symptoms. The only drawback to this med is you have to get regular blood tests.
Lao,
Let me say first that I always enjoy reading your posts and generally find what you have to say to be helpful and informative. I think that the information that you share with those of us who read messages on the Psycho-Babble alternative forum about medications and supplements is worth reading, and I like to read about the various supplements that you've found to be helpful in the treatment of your psychiatric condition.
I must, however, disagree with your statement that getting regular blood tests is the only drawback of taking Clozaril (clozapine). In addition to being associated with a 1-2 percent incidence of agranulocytosis (which, as you may know, is the reason why regular blood monitoring is required for patients taking Clozaril), Clozaril increases the risk of seizures and diabetes, and also comes with side effects that could potentially include fast or irregular heartbeat, myocarditis, and orthostatic hypotension. The full list of potential side effects from Clozaril is, of course, much longer, and patients considering taking Clozaril, yourself included, should be aware that such side effects are possible before they take the medication.
Here is a list of side effects associated with Clozaril (clozapine) use from drugs.com:
http://www.drugs.com/sfx/clozaril-side-effects.htmlAnd here is some side-effect information from Clozaril's official Web site:
http://www.clozaril.com/info/about/side_effects.jspAs you can see, the potential drawbacks of taking Clozaril (clozapine) are many, and although not everybody taking the medication is going to experience all of the side effects, it is my impression that most (if not all) individuals taking Clozaril have more drawbacks to contend with than just the regular blood tests.
T.
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 18, 2013, at 13:27:56
In reply to Re: Clozaril » Lao Tzu, posted by Tomatheus on August 18, 2013, at 12:14:49
I am stable on 300mg Seroquel.
Im not getting injections however. The pills are fine with me. Id like my doctor to have as little power over me as possible. You may say im paranoid, schizophrenic and whatever. But im only "paranoid" about mental health personell and no one else.
There are people who dont want your thinking to be free, who dont want your mind to be free. Im not giving them MORE power over me with injections, i am striving to free myself of the grips of psychiatry. I only accept help when the help is agreeable with my dignity. This is a foreign word for many patients, but not for me.
I couldnt trust any PSYCHIATRIST enough to put me on injections, sorry dude. Its called freedom and its kinda cool when you have some.
Seroquel at 300mg does everything an Antipsychotic can do for me with benign side effects. Its really okay.
Clozaril for negative symptoms? Idk, i have personally seen quite the opposite. And this is an understatement. Seroquel is alleged to work against depression at 300mg. Like i said, i have all the med i want with 300mg Seroquel.
As far as meds go, id like to take 1.25 Abilify and 75mg Lamictal AND id like to try Prazosin against my atrocious nightmaires.
But these nightmaires always occur when i change meds. When im stable they are still distressing though. Do i write nightmaires wrong? damit!
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 18, 2013, at 13:28:27
In reply to Re: Clozaril, posted by Lamdage22 on August 18, 2013, at 13:27:56
And i am considered schizo-affective, not schizophrenic.
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 18, 2013, at 13:36:42
In reply to Re: Clozaril, posted by Lamdage22 on August 18, 2013, at 13:28:27
Lao,
im on Seroquel immediate release and i take 300mg at night.
Is it worth experimenting around with some Seroquel XR?
You say you experience a better more stable effect with the injections, so maybe this would be a compromise...
I dont know if i want to try, my doctor who will split up with me tomorrow suggested to try XR.
I am scared to be more tired. Whats REALLY important for my healing process is, that i have little trouble waking up in the morning, so my med schedule should be designed so that i have as little problems getting up as possible.
Posted by Lao Tzu on August 22, 2013, at 14:28:05
In reply to Re: Clozaril » Lao Tzu, posted by Tomatheus on August 18, 2013, at 12:14:49
Thank you for all the information on Clozaril. I wasn't aware of all the potential side effects of this med. My doctor only just mentioned it on my last visit. I am still hesitant to try it just for the mere possibility that it could cause agranulocytosis. I have been taking Risperdal for about 10 years now, and I have always done pretty well with that med, except for a slight elevation in liver enzymes. As it is right now, while everything seems to be working fine, I have reservations about changing anything to my medication regimen. My doctor is open-minded. I told him I would think about it b/c he said it might help with the apathy and anhedonia. I think Risperdal helps somewhat with negative symptoms (at least it is supposed to), but Clozaril seems to have an advantage in that respect according to what I have read on the subject. Thanks for your feedback.
Lao
Posted by Lao Tzu on August 22, 2013, at 14:44:10
In reply to Re: Clozaril, posted by Lamdage22 on August 18, 2013, at 13:27:56
I've heard many people say that Seroquel is a good drug for them. They tried to put me on it when I was in the behavioral hospital, but I wouldn't take the pills. In fact, that is why I let the doc put me on injections b/c I was refusing to take any pills for my condition. Deep down somewhere I knew that I needed some kind of medication (antipsychotic), and I trusted my doctor. It sounds odd that a schizophrenic would TRUST a doctor, but I felt like he had the capability to help me. For some reason, the voices all agreed that it would be beneficial to get the injections, which was really me telling myself this would be the best thing for me, even though I might not have been crazy about the idea in the beginning. But I don't feel like I was giving up my freedom. In fact, today I feel more in control of myself than I ever did when I was really delusional. I was an absolute mess back then. Doing and saying all kinds of strange things, not taking a bath for a week, smoking cigarettes all the time, going through rituals, paranoia, you name it.
I agree with you. I don't know about the Clozaril really helping me. There's a possibility that it could, but I've doing fine on Risperdal. I'm glad you are doing okay on the Seroquel. Hang in there, and thanks for your feedback.Lao
Posted by Tomatheus on August 22, 2013, at 21:46:49
In reply to Re: Clozaril))Tomatheus, posted by Lao Tzu on August 22, 2013, at 14:28:05
Lao,
Thank you for your response. I think you're right that Clozaril (clozapine) may have some advantages over other medications in the treatment of negative symptoms, although I'm not sure exactly how it compares with Risperdal. Clozaril is certainly a highly effective medication, and I can see why you're considering possibly switching to it from Risperdal. But you also have a good point in saying that you'd have reservations about switching medications, since Risperdal seems to be working at least reasonably well for you. Deciding whether to try another medication can be a difficult thing to do, especially when your current medication is exerting some beneficial effects. On one hand, I think we always want improvement over where we're currently at, but on the other hand, we don't want to stop taking something that's been working fairly well for us. There's always a lot to consider when thinking about switching medications, and I wish you luck in deciding whether or not to go ahead with Clozaril.
T.
Posted by Lao Tzu on August 24, 2013, at 14:38:28
In reply to Re: Clozaril » Lao Tzu, posted by Tomatheus on August 22, 2013, at 21:46:49
I see you listed chronic fatigue as one of the conditions you have. I have similar symptoms. Have you ever used Riboflavin in higher doses? I take 100mg morning and 100mg at bedtime, and it appears to help the fatigue due to its antioxidant effects and its effects on mitochondria. But I also have to mention that I also take 200mg of B1 per day (100 in the morning, 100 at bedtime); 100mg of B6 (50 in the morning, 50 in the afternoon); 350mcg of B12, 100mcg of selenium at bedtime; 200mg magnesium at bedtime. All of these nutrients combined seemed to have helped a great deal with my fatigue, but it wasn't until I added the Riboflavin and increased my B6 to 100mg, that I started feeling a difference. It may be quite probable that schizophrenia has a component of increased oxidative stress and the mitochondria may be involved. That's why I recommended the riboflavin. I did read an article that said that some people with affective disorders may be deficient in B1, B2 (riboflavin), and B6. Thought I'd pass this on to you. Thanks for your response. I don't know if I am going to switch antipsychotics or not. My gut reaction is to just stick with what I've been taking all these years. Take care.
Lao
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