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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Questionmark on July 13, 2010, at 14:33:39
http://www.neurowellness.com/Johns.Hopkins.Depression.Chapter.pdf
I wasn't too impressed by this until i got down to the "Treatment" section. Then it became pretty intriguing. Especially with some of their stats relating to effectiveness.
I'm still highly skeptical. But i wanted some knowledgeable people's opinions on this. Do you think this kind of relatively simple treatment guideline can be very helpful for many people?
(Oh, it looks like there's more to this writing that's not in this pdf page too, just so you're aware.)
Like i said i'm pretty skeptical, obviously. More so even because they seem to have some seemingly self-invented theories. i don't agree with their premise that reuptake inhibitors necessarily cause neurotransmitter depletion and lose effectiveness -- and/or are counter-productive, or what have you -- in the long run as a result. Subjectively and experientially it doesn't make sense that they deplete neurotransmitter levels to degrees that cause the synaptic NT levels to be reduced. And biochemically AND experientially it doesn't make sense that this would be the primary reason for reuptake inhibitor tolerance. What does make sense as the primary reason is receptor adaptation.
Anyway. Please share your thoughts.
Posted by Lao Tzu on July 14, 2010, at 20:09:18
In reply to Article on Amino Acids etc Effectiveness for Dep., posted by Questionmark on July 13, 2010, at 14:33:39
I did read somewhere that SSRI's can cause depletion of neurotransmitters. I read it on a site that promoted use of amino acids tryptophan, tyrosine, and DL-phenylalanine for replenishing the lost neurotransmitters. I don't know of any proof this occurs. I take an SSRI everyday, and it does help with depression. Taking additional amino acids to bolster neurotransmitter levels may be too simplistic. It's not the quantity of neurotransmitters that is the problem, but rather something else like receptor activity or possibly problems with secondary messengers. Just taking aminos is not necessarily going to correct your depression. SSRIs do help with depression, especially very severe depression that amino acids won't necessarily be able to correct.
Posted by Hombre on July 14, 2010, at 21:56:47
In reply to Re: Article on Amino Acids etc Effectiveness for Dep., posted by Lao Tzu on July 14, 2010, at 20:09:18
I mimicked the neuroresearch protocols for tyrosine, 5-htp, and cysteine as closely as I could for about 6 months and never noticed any consistent effects. Vitamin C, the Bs, zinc, magnesium and fish oil are more likely to produce some improvements in mood and anxiety. You may need to take more or less than other people based on your unique needs. Sometimes these needs are way beyond the "normal" doses.
Check out Lao Tzu's detailed posts on supplements.
Posted by ihatedrugs on July 15, 2010, at 0:15:17
In reply to Article on Amino Acids etc Effectiveness for Dep., posted by Questionmark on July 13, 2010, at 14:33:39
Here a few links on L-Tryptophan in particular. Pretty interesting and easy to understand reads.
http://www.naturalmedicinejournal.com/clinical_janci_gaby_insert.htmlThe full article can be purchased through Amazon using the link below:
http://www.amazon.com/L-tryptophan-back-Abstracts-Interest-Internist/dp/B003S0WYVM/ref=pd_rhf_p_t_1
This last one is a good eye opener (perhaps to conspiratorial to some).
Posted by morgan miller on July 15, 2010, at 23:15:51
In reply to Re: Article on Amino Acids etc Effectiveness for Dep., posted by Lao Tzu on July 14, 2010, at 20:09:18
> I did read somewhere that SSRI's can cause depletion of neurotransmitters. I read it on a site that promoted use of amino acids tryptophan, tyrosine, and DL-phenylalanine for replenishing the lost neurotransmitters. I don't know of any proof this occurs. I take an SSRI everyday, and it does help with depression. Taking additional amino acids to bolster neurotransmitter levels may be too simplistic. It's not the quantity of neurotransmitters that is the problem, but rather something else like receptor activity or possibly problems with secondary messengers. Just taking aminos is not necessarily going to correct your depression. SSRIs do help with depression, especially very severe depression that amino acids won't necessarily be able to correct.
I agree. I also think things like 5htp can be more destabilizing and less reliable than antidepressants like SSRIs.
Posted by Lao Tzu on July 16, 2010, at 12:05:14
In reply to Re: Article on Amino Acids etc Effectiveness for Dep., posted by morgan miller on July 15, 2010, at 23:15:51
I have to digress a little. Aminos, the right ones, can help with depression. The taurine I'm taking is definitely helping with my depression. However, if you aren't deficient in certain aminos, they're not going to help. Thus, tyrosine does nothing for me whereas it might help some people. I don't like glycine anymore. I feel strange on Phenylalanine. Tryptophan I'm not real familiar with, but I take an SSRI and I don't believe I need additional tryptophan. My serotonin levels are probably fine. Taurine, however, is interesting. I've always responded well to it, and it seems to work consistently everyday. Amino Acid Complexes I do horrible on. Aminos have to be tailored to the individual. Often than not, a person with depression is probably deficient in more than one amino acid, so it's not so simplistic to just rely on say, tryptophan or tyrosine. It also depends on how your brain is functioning. Someone with bipolar (like myself) may like taurine, but someone with ADHD may not. And like I said, taking an amino acid for depression is a shot in the dark. It may or may not help. You have to consider all nutrient deficiencies and consider taking meds if your condition is very severe. For someone who gets the blues now and then, an amino acid or two may be just what is needed, but for severe mental illness, usually medicine is the front line therapy.
Posted by Lao Tzu on July 19, 2010, at 13:56:32
In reply to Re: Article on Amino Acids etc Effectiveness for Dep., posted by Lao Tzu on July 16, 2010, at 12:05:14
I give up on amino acids. They just don't seem to work for me anymore. They just wind up complicating the depression, usually making my mood worse rather than better. My latest trial with taurine has failed. I should have known because I read a couple sources that claimed that medication serves to lower taurine levels in the brain, which are high in depression prior to the meds. So having high taurine levels is not necessarily therapeutic. Dumping amino acids into your body is not necessarily going to help with depression unless, I suppose, you are deficient due to malabsorption problems. You actually should get enough amino acids from your diet if it is well-balanced. I've discovered that vitamins and minerals in the right dosages for the individual seem to be more consistently beneficial for depression than the amino acids unless, of course, you have a malabsorption problem or are vegetarian.
Posted by Hombre on July 19, 2010, at 18:14:37
In reply to Re: Article on Amino Acids etc Effectiveness for Dep., posted by Lao Tzu on July 19, 2010, at 13:56:32
Not a failure. You've learned something valuable, I think. We appreciate your continued research.
This is the end of the thread.
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