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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by SheilaC on August 5, 2007, at 20:18:50
I am very depressed and also have problems with anxiety. After 18 years of taking all the SSRIs, SNRIs and other drugs, I feel like I have messed my body up.
I suffer from terrible bladder spasms, urine retention, ultimately leading to bladder infections from the SSRIs. Problem is, these drugs usually work great for my depresison, but the serotonin receptors or nerves in my lower GI go into severe spasms and I end up at the urologist's office. She says not to take any of those drugs because she sees women in her office everyday with similar complaints.
I have tried lowering the doseages, etc. But I just can't take them.
What can I take that will help with depression but that won't bother my insides? I'm afraid my body has deveoloped a condition called neurogenic bladder due to all the ADs over the years.
What now?
Posted by JLx on August 9, 2007, at 21:35:32
In reply to What to try for depression..., posted by SheilaC on August 5, 2007, at 20:18:50
> I am very depressed and also have problems with anxiety. After 18 years of taking all the SSRIs, SNRIs and other drugs, I feel like I have messed my body up.
>
> I suffer from terrible bladder spasms, urine retention, ultimately leading to bladder infections from the SSRIs. Problem is, these drugs usually work great for my depresison, but the serotonin receptors or nerves in my lower GI go into severe spasms and I end up at the urologist's office. She says not to take any of those drugs because she sees women in her office everyday with similar complaints.
>
> I have tried lowering the doseages, etc. But I just can't take them.
>
> What can I take that will help with depression but that won't bother my insides? I'm afraid my body has deveoloped a condition called neurogenic bladder due to all the ADs over the years.
>
> What now?Exercise http://www.holisticonline.com/Remedies/Depression/dep_exercise.htm
http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUSCOL97044920070719
Cognitive therapy. The MoodGym is a free self-help program from the University of Australia. http://moodgym.anu.edu.au/
Good CBT self-help books are "Feeling Good" and "The Feeling Good Handbook" by David Burns, M.D.
And of course, there are supplements, the primary drawback of which is that it may take a lot of trial and error to find something that works. Magnesium has helped me a lot. I also take fish oil, just because it makes sense that it could contribute to a healthy brain. Amino acids, SAM-e, herbs like St. John's Wort and Rhodiola work for some people. Gingko. B vitamins. The list goes on.
What have you already tried besides meds?
JL
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on August 11, 2007, at 10:08:17
In reply to Re: What to try for depression... » SheilaC, posted by JLx on August 9, 2007, at 21:35:32
There are lots of great alternatives out there that won't upset your GI. I would go see a registered herbalist, and they could recommend things.
St John's Wort is a really great alternative to SSRIs. It would be worth checking out. Although I seem to remember I had to take mine with food because I got a tiny bit of stomach upset, and I don't have any problems with GI stuff.
I'm really sorry to hear that you suspect that these drugs have caused your problems. Personally, I really hate all conventional ADs, and I really think they are totally over prescribed, and also, we don't know the long-term effects of them. And I think they were supposed to be a short term ish remedy, not 20 plus years.
Anyway. There are some really great alternatives out there.
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by linkadge on August 15, 2007, at 20:33:49
In reply to Re: What to try for depression..., posted by Meri-Tuuli on August 11, 2007, at 10:08:17
Ginger root has some antidepressant effects, and can reduce GI symtpoms.
Linkadge
Posted by qqqsimmons on August 19, 2007, at 19:00:21
In reply to Re: What to try for depression... » SheilaC, posted by JLx on August 9, 2007, at 21:35:32
fish oil boosts neurotransmitters without messing with your stomach.
but for me, higher doses lead to overstimulation.
Posted by Optimist on August 28, 2007, at 23:07:06
In reply to What to try for depression..., posted by SheilaC on August 5, 2007, at 20:18:50
> I am very depressed and also have problems with anxiety. After 18 years of taking all the SSRIs, SNRIs and other drugs, I feel like I have messed my body up.
>
> I suffer from terrible bladder spasms, urine retention, ultimately leading to bladder infections from the SSRIs. Problem is, these drugs usually work great for my depresison, but the serotonin receptors or nerves in my lower GI go into severe spasms and I end up at the urologist's office. She says not to take any of those drugs because she sees women in her office everyday with similar complaints.
>
> I have tried lowering the doseages, etc. But I just can't take them.
>
> What can I take that will help with depression but that won't bother my insides? I'm afraid my body has deveoloped a condition called neurogenic bladder due to all the ADs over the years.
>
> What now?Have you had your hormones tested? Estrogen dominance can cause some of the symptoms you have.
Too much estrogen can cause increased norepineprine levels which may lead to anxiety states and lack of serotonin. The increased norepinephine can prevent the parasympathetic nerve responsible for relaxing your bladder from working properly.
It's possible you may need some progesterone prescribed to balance out your estrogen, increase parasympathetic tone, and increase your mood from it's serotonin boosting activity.
I would ask your doctor for some blood work to see if your hormones are causing your problems. Hopefully that'll work.
Brian
Posted by saturn on September 1, 2007, at 19:52:35
In reply to Re: What to try for depression... » SheilaC, posted by JLx on August 9, 2007, at 21:35:32
>>> Magnesium has helped me a lot.
Hi JL. May I ask what brand, formulation and dosage of Magnesium you take?
Thanks...Saturn
Posted by JLx on September 2, 2007, at 10:02:37
In reply to Re: What to try for depression... » JLx, posted by saturn on September 1, 2007, at 19:52:35
> >>> Magnesium has helped me a lot.
>
> Hi JL. May I ask what brand, formulation and dosage of Magnesium you take?
>
> Thanks...SaturnI mix it up quite a bit.
I take magnesium taurate, Cardiovascular Research brand, found at Amazon who distributes for Vitamin Shoppe. The capsules are 125 mg of magnesium; I vary but usually at least take two before bed.
I also take magnesium orotate, bulk powder from Beyond A Century. I put it into capsules myself and calculate there's about 70 mg of magnesium in each of my capsules. I take 1,2, or 3 at night when I don't take the magnesium taurate.
Sometimes I take other magnesium taurate throughtout the day, such as if I get particularly irritable. 1 or 2 capsules.
Sometimes I take 1 or a half of one, calcium/magnesium that is magnesium citrate balanced with less magnesium than calcium. That one is a local health store brand and has about 100 mg of magnesium.
I also usually use 1-2 packets of Emergen-C in the day, which has 50 mg of both calcium/magnesium in it. Emergen-C is supposed to be energizing but I find it calming.
If I am eating a lot of dairy, I take more magnesium to counteract the crazy-making effects of calcium on me.
Pumpkin seeds are one of the highest magnesium foods, and I put some in my protein shakes sometimes.
In general though, even when I think I'm getting enough magnesium through my diet, I don't feel it. I always take some supplemental magnesium.
JL
Posted by brooke484 on September 8, 2007, at 13:39:23
In reply to Re: Magnesium » saturn, posted by JLx on September 2, 2007, at 10:02:37
I bought some chelated magnesium (250 mgs) by Country Life because a man at the health food store said it was the best they had (they don't carry the mag. taurate). It has cellulose, stearic acid, silica, cellulose coating, and magnesium stearate. Do you know how this compares to the magnesium taurate? I wanted to try this because I suffer from depression and my magnesium level is also low.
Thanks for your help.
brooke
Posted by JLx on September 8, 2007, at 21:12:11
In reply to Re: Magnesium - JLX, posted by brooke484 on September 8, 2007, at 13:39:23
http://www.country-life.com/moreinfo.cfm?Category=7&Product_ID=97
If that is the product you bought, then you've got magnesium oxide, which has been found to be not very absorbable in some tests. Whether it will be absorbable to you is another question. Some people have found it worked. But if it doesn't, I would definitely try another brand.
Can you order online? Otherwise, you might ask your store owner to order something else for you.
You might also try bigger grocery store chains, as they might carry magnesium citrate. (But you don't want the liquid stuff.)
Then there's always food. Pumpkin seeds are one of the highest magnesium foods. http://www.whfoods.org/genpage.php?tname=nutrient&dbid=75
JL
> I bought some chelated magnesium (250 mgs) by Country Life because a man at the health food store said it was the best they had (they don't carry the mag. taurate). It has cellulose, stearic acid, silica, cellulose coating, and magnesium stearate. Do you know how this compares to the magnesium taurate? I wanted to try this because I suffer from depression and my magnesium level is also low.
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> brooke
>
>
>
Posted by brooke484 on September 9, 2007, at 9:56:26
In reply to Re: Magnesium - JLX » brooke484, posted by JLx on September 8, 2007, at 21:12:11
Yes, that's the one I bought.
Is magnesium citrate as good as the taurate? Or would eating pumpkin seeds be better than taking supplements? I'm a little clueless about all of this, can you tell?
Thanks again,
brooke
Posted by JLx on September 10, 2007, at 14:21:46
In reply to Re: Magnesium - JLX, posted by brooke484 on September 9, 2007, at 9:56:26
> Yes, that's the one I bought.
>
> Is magnesium citrate as good as the taurate?Magnesium taurate is magnesium chelated with the amino acid taurine. Magnesium glycinate is magnesium chelated with glycine. With these kinds of magnesium, you get some of the same effect of the amino acid, primarily calming. Both of these are also considered very absorbable and so is magnesium citrate.
Magnesium citrate is the most likely to give me diarrhea in larger doses, but other people take it quite successfully.
Most everything in alternative health is trial and error, so you won't know how something works for YOU until you try it. Also, some things may work best in combination with something else, so again, trial and error.
>Or would eating pumpkin seeds be better than taking supplements? I'm a little clueless about all of this, can you tell?
>
> Thanks again,
>
> brookeI think food is always preferable to supplements -- in theory. In practice, it may not always be convenient to achieve higher doses of something with food. There may also be a question of absorption or something else preventing the body from utilizing the nutrients in food. A supplement may bypass that "something". That may not be scientific, it's just my theory.
If your magnesium oxide is not very absorbable for you, then you may benefit from eating magnesium rich foods like pumpkin seeds too. It just depends on how you feel.
See this nutritionist's page for some good info on magnesium. Note her recommendation for magnesium calculated by body weight, also taking into consideration possible factors that deplete magnesium: http://www.krispin.com/magnes.html
Why are you taking magnesium? What are you trying to achieve or why do you think you may be deficient?
I never would have thought I was deficient but am glad I tried it anyway.
JL
Posted by brooke484 on September 11, 2007, at 20:21:53
In reply to Re: Magnesium - JLX » brooke484, posted by JLx on September 10, 2007, at 14:21:46
Well, I've suffered with depression/anxiety for a very long time and back in 2002 my doctor said my magnesium was low but never did anything about it. Just yesterday I had an appt with another doctor and he's going to see if it's still low. If it is then I wanted to know a little more about supplements.
Thanks again for all of your help.
Posted by JLx on September 11, 2007, at 22:49:46
In reply to Re: Magnesium - JLX, posted by brooke484 on September 11, 2007, at 20:21:53
> Well, I've suffered with depression/anxiety for a very long time and back in 2002 my doctor said my magnesium was low but never did anything about it. Just yesterday I had an appt with another doctor and he's going to see if it's still low. If it is then I wanted to know a little more about supplements.
>
> Thanks again for all of your help.How did he say he determined that it was low? My understanding is that there is no accurate blood test for magnesium.
You may want to check out this magnesium deficienty quiz: http://www.thewayup.com/newsletters/081501.htm
JL
Posted by brooke484 on September 12, 2007, at 8:59:37
In reply to Re: Magnesium - JLX » brooke484, posted by JLx on September 11, 2007, at 22:49:46
My doctor used Great Smokies Lab. The test was called "Elemental Analysis." It looked at both toxic elements and essential elements. Why wouldn't they be able to test for magnesium? That seems a little odd to me.
Posted by JLx on September 12, 2007, at 11:13:10
In reply to Re: Magnesium - JLX, posted by brooke484 on September 12, 2007, at 8:59:37
> My doctor used Great Smokies Lab. The test was called "Elemental Analysis." It looked at both toxic elements and essential elements. Why wouldn't they be able to test for magnesium? That seems a little odd to me.
You must be right; I thought I remembered hearing that somewhere, that there was no accurate test. Perhaps that was years back.
Since I generally do everything by trial and error, I think that's exciting to know that you have a verified deficiency that you can address.
That being so, you may definitely want to consider purchasing a more absorbable form of magnesium than the one you have if this one doesn't seem to have an impact. One way to get magnesium, that I forgot to mention, is Epsom Salt baths which is magnesium sulfate, absorbed through the skin then.
JL
Posted by brooke484 on September 12, 2007, at 11:42:18
In reply to Re: Magnesium - JLX » brooke484, posted by JLx on September 12, 2007, at 11:13:10
I'll let you know what my labs say when I get them back. My doctor also said I was "borderline anemic." Maybe this is why I'm so tired?
This is the end of the thread.
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