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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by daorlando on March 31, 2006, at 17:55:21
I've been experimenting with various supplements in the last year to help me with my symptoms of anxiety, slight depression and obsessive thoughts. I would like to share my findings with you in hope that some of you might find it useful or share your experience and advice.
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Kava-Kava: I like this very much, including the taste of it. It takes away all the anxiety and fear. I stopped using it because I had a feeling my mind was slightly dulled on it and I had trouble concentrating.
Valerian: Good for anxiety, yet I found I had difficulty breathing on higher doses and again - I had difficulty concentrating on it.
Gotu Kola: Incredible herb. This takes away severe depression in just a few hours. It works like magic. It also gives me a certain calm feeling. It's not sedating like kava, valerian or tranquilizers so it's not that good for panic disorders, but it still takes the edge off.
St. Johns Wort: I took this for a couple of weeks for depression. It helped yet I have discontinued to use this product because my skin got discolored and I had trouble adjusting my eyes to daylight.
5-HTP: I tried this a couple of times and the effects were always the same. It takes away anxiety and fear just like a tranquilizer would; yet it makes my head dull and severely depressed for the next two days. Friends that tried it had a very positive experience with it, though.
L-Phenylalanine, 5-HTP, Tyrosine: This combination made me happy, wired and anxious. Because I have trouble with anxiety as it is I don't use this anymore.
B-Complex 100mg: Did nothing for anxiety or depression. Made me angry from time to time.
OMEGA3: Did nothing for anxiety or depression. I've decided to try this supplement again, now using a better quality product with higher dosage.
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If you have any question please let me know.
I would like to hear from you too. What kind of supplements would you suggest for this 'strange brain', which gets depressed on 5-HTP, anxious on L-Phenylalanine and unfocused on other anti-anxiety supplements.
Thanks and good luck!
Posted by nolvas on March 31, 2006, at 18:23:50
In reply to Anti-anxiety review (valerian, kava, gotu, 5htp..), posted by daorlando on March 31, 2006, at 17:55:21
Gotu Kola is possibly the most interesting supplement you mention. CCK4 is implicated in panic disorder and depression and Gotu Kola is a CCK4 inhibitor.
Drug companies are working on CCK inhibitors to treat anxiety and it's possible these will be the next big thing in the treatment of anxiety conditions.
Binding studies have shown gotu kola to bind to both CCK and GABA receptors,these are both implicated in anxiety conditions.
The dosages were higher than normally used in Chinese Medicince > 12grams.
It's a herb that needs studying more with regard to anxiety and depressive disorders.
Posted by Jakeman on April 1, 2006, at 0:59:26
In reply to Anti-anxiety review (valerian, kava, gotu, 5htp..), posted by daorlando on March 31, 2006, at 17:55:21
Great post, thanks. My comments below.
> I've been experimenting with various supplements in the last year to help me with my symptoms of anxiety, slight depression and obsessive thoughts. I would like to share my findings with you in hope that some of you might find it useful or share your experience and advice.
>
> ---
>
> Kava-Kava: I like this very much, including the taste of it. It takes away all the anxiety and fear. I stopped using it because I had a feeling my mind was slightly dulled on it and I had trouble concentrating.Some-what similar experince. A natural valium but doesn't work long-term.
>
> Valerian: Good for anxiety, yet I found I had difficulty breathing on higher doses and again - I had difficulty concentrating on it.Good herb, helps with sleep but tolerance develops quickly. Can cause bad body odor.
>
> Gotu Kola: Incredible herb. This takes away severe depression in just a few hours. It works like magic. It also gives me a certain calm feeling. It's not sedating like kava, valerian or tranquilizers so it's not that good for panic disorders, but it still takes the edge off.I've had it in a mix of other herbs like Mentat, was great for a few days.
> St. Johns Wort: I took this for a couple of weeks for depression. It helped yet I have discontinued to use this product because my skin got discolored and I had trouble adjusting my eyes to daylight.Not enough AD response for me. Maybe good with another agent.
>
> 5-HTP: I tried this a couple of times and the effects were always the same. It takes away anxiety and fear just like a tranquilizer would; yet it makes my head dull and severely depressed for the next two days. Friends that tried it had a very positive experience with it, though.
>
> L-Phenylalanine, 5-HTP, Tyrosine: This combination made me happy, wired and anxious. Because I have trouble with anxiety as it is I don't use this anymore.Tyrosine and Glutamine has helped my cognitive abilities on stressful days. Especially if I've been drinking.
> B-Complex 100mg: Did nothing for anxiety or depression. Made me angry from time to time.
I take it as an all around vitamin suppement.
> OMEGA3: Did nothing for anxiety or depression. I've decided to try this supplement again, now using a better quality product with higher dosage.I'm not sure about mental health benefits. It has definitely helped with problems with back pain, joints.
>
> If you have any question please let me know.
>
> I would like to hear from you too. What kind of supplements would you suggest for this 'strange brain', which gets depressed on 5-HTP, anxious on L-Phenylalanine and unfocused on other anti-anxiety supplements.
>
> Thanks and good luck!
>
Posted by LOOPS on April 2, 2006, at 18:29:22
In reply to Re: Anti-anxiety review (valerian, kava, gotu, 5htp..) » daorlando, posted by Jakeman on April 1, 2006, at 0:59:26
Hey you!
I've had similar responses to things plus a few more.
5htp - excellent for anxiety, but throws me into a kind of snappy depression if I take too much.
valerian - have been taking this for sleep, but it recently quit working for me, so now I mix it with ambien (probably not a good idea).
kava - hmm, really effective if I make the drink the old-fashioned way. Pills don't seem to do much for me.
tyrosine - I am a machine without emotions.
phenylalanine - weeee. Yup - up with anxiety.Um, what else.
Right now tryptophan - cool. Has completely different effects on me to 5htp - like actually WORKS for depression instead of making me feel like the dead. Too much and I'm lethargic though. Taken with SMALLish amount of B vits, magnesium, zinc and vitamin C it actually works. Drawback - makes me VERY hungry - can also mess up my sleep even more if I take it at night.
Holy Basil - get that cortisol DOWN. Great for morning anxiety, even better coupled with tryptophan and taurine.
There are some things I keep going back to - it's a bit like a juggling act but that is how it seems to work best.
Fish oil - undecided. I took very high doses for about 6 months and although this worked very well for depression, I noticed my anxiety and tension at times were a bit high, especially if I was in a situation with not a lot to do. Other side effects for me included having a very red face all the time, bad acne and not sure if it exacerbated my insomnia. I still take it, but at a small fraction of what I used to. I try to eat more fish instead as who really knows what else is in fish which balances out the 'special oils'??
GLA oils - coupled with fish oil, grrrrreat for anxiety, but hello lack of motivation, reduced social interaction and initial insomnia. Oh, and also fluid retention and increased appetite. Doh NO!! (I'm a recovering bulimic).
Maybe I was taking too much, but I got scared off this stuff. I actually think now that due to my massive omega-3 intake at the time, my production of GLA had gone down (hence the anxiety) - so initially supplementing was a good idea. However this was so hard to balance without being shoved back into depression, so I ended up ditching the GLA and just taking fish oil and coping with the anxiety. Right now I figure a small amount of fish oil is the best way.
Passiflora - mmmm - nice stuff. Pity the effects wear off after a few weeks. Still - makes me calm and really helps with sleep if I haven't taken it in a while.
Alchohol and pot - well, yes they work, but only a few hours with alcohol until it kicks you in the face again. Still, I like my wine, just not tooo much of it. Pot - smoked every day makes me paranoid, but occasionally seems to help me regain my perspective on things. DO NOT COMBINE POT WITH DMAE - this made me quite anxious.
Loops
Posted by daorlando on April 4, 2006, at 15:51:38
In reply to Re: Anti-anxiety review (valerian, kava, gotu, 5ht, posted by LOOPS on April 2, 2006, at 18:29:22
Hey Loops!
Your brain chemistry sounds familiar J
Can I ask you a few questions?
Holy Basil - How exactly does that work for you? I find my anxiety is at it's peak in the morning also. Would this work for physical symptoms of anxiety? I find I can relax my brain, but the body is still in the state of distress. So this just might be it.
Passiflora - How would you compare its effects to Valerian and Kava. Does it knock you out or can you function normally on it?
Tryptophan - Does this do anything for your anxiety levels since it's related to 5-htp, which seems to work pretty well for anxiety?
If you find fish oil to increase your anxiety, you may want to Google 'Pyroluria'. I don't know if you know about this already, but since GLA helps you this might be something you may want to explore further.
Thanks for you feedback!
DaOrlando
Posted by daorlando on April 4, 2006, at 15:54:10
In reply to Re: Anti-anxiety review (valerian, kava, gotu, 5htp..) » daorlando, posted by Jakeman on April 1, 2006, at 0:59:26
Posted by blueberry on April 5, 2006, at 19:54:05
In reply to Anti-anxiety review (valerian, kava, gotu, 5htp..), posted by daorlando on March 31, 2006, at 17:55:21
Cool thread. Thanks for starting it.
Valerian... Only used it for a few nights. I think it helped sleep a little bit. I heard stories of poopout, addiction, and withdrawals, so I kind of backed away from it.
Passion flower, lavender, lemon balm mix...very good anti-anxiety, very calming. But made me cold, lowered blood pressure a lot. Wore off in 3 hours and anxiety was back stronger than ever. Kind of like xanax.
Licorice root...mixed results. Excellent unbelievably serene day, following by a very depressed day. Couldn't get consistent results.
Kava...calmed me nicely the one night I tried, but when I went to bed I realized I felt like I was speeding. Even tiny noises startled me. It has some dopamine effects, and they seemed very exaggerated with me. Scared me.
5HTP...very depressing. You want to feel what depression feels like, take 5htp. Good for anxiety if you don't mind me extremely dull and depressed.
Tryptophan...can't really tell. Sometimes it felt half decent, sometimes lousy. I think it has a lot to do with timing. Daytime it gets converted to serotonin mostly, but at night it goes mostly to melatonin...melatonin makes me very depressed. I think tryptophan has potential, a lot more than 5htp, but it could be tricky to get it right.
DLPA...stimulating at first, but has good anti-anxiety if continued. Weird though, it made my depression worse after a few days.
Tyrosine...wow, immediate total cure for depression, followed hours later by uncomfortable stimulation and paranoia.
D-phenylalanine...calming at first, but then in bed you realize you have a dull speed effect kind of like amphetamines, where you feel awake, but someone keeps telling you that you are snoring.
Ginkgo biloba...felt stimulating the first few days, a bit uncomfortable, but with continued use it has a decent anti-anxiety effect. Decent antidepressant effect on the first day or two, couldn't really tell after that.
St Johns Wort...So many people say it is good for sleep and anxiety. Well, for me it is but only after suffering through 3 weeks of incredibly uncomfortable stimulation and insomnia. And the withdrawals, holy cow, you're talking benzodiazepine withdrawals here. Landed me in the emergency room.
Gotu kola...now that's a great idea! I'll have to try that.
Posted by LOOPS on April 6, 2006, at 10:56:15
In reply to Re: Anti-anxiety review (valerian, kava, gotu, 5htp..), posted by blueberry on April 5, 2006, at 19:54:05
Hi -
forgot to add - ginkgo makes me food binge. I also had really awful insomnia on sjw - in fact to this day I still haven't managed to get back into a good sleep pattern, and I took it like 3 years ago.
The Holy Basil is pretty subtle. I still think it's worth it - mild anti-anxiety is the only way to describe it. I think mixed with a good adaptogen like siberian ginseng it would be even better. I have terrible physical anxiety too - sometimes my whole body jerks when I get fed up - can't explain that one, it's like I do it deliberately or something when the tension gets too much.
The passiflora stuff I got is supposed to be taken during the day - back in my irrensponsible clubbing days, I used to take like 10 pills on a come-down and it really chilled me out (although I still couldn't sleep). I don't do that squiffy stuff anymore, but I do do the passiflora. Never makes me sleepy, just a little more mellowed out.
Tryptophan seems to work pretty well for depression and anxiety, but not for insomnia for me. In fact nothing works for insomnia anymore - I'm trying to reconcile myself with the fact that I'll just have to accept this and try to cope. However, for some people tryptophan does help insomnia.
I probably do have mild pyroluria as I drink wine most nights and suffer terrible depression/anxiety still. However, I take my vitamins so it can't be that bad. Sometimes I take extra p5p and zinc.
Loops
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