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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 5 of 5. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by linkadge on December 4, 2005, at 9:03:56
I read somewhere that long term administration of dopa to parkinsons patients could actually worsen the course of the illness for some reason.
Isn't it possable that loading up on serotonin precursors might also pose similar risks to the serotonergic system ?
Linkadge
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 4, 2005, at 12:48:34
In reply to Question about 5-htp / Tryptophan, posted by linkadge on December 4, 2005, at 9:03:56
> I read somewhere that long term administration of dopa to parkinsons patients could actually worsen the course of the illness for some reason.
>
> Isn't it possable that loading up on serotonin precursors might also pose similar risks to the serotonergic system ?
>
> LinkadgeMy opinion, for what it's worth. There is no known parallel to Parkinson's that involves degeneration of a serotinergic system, where dedicated cell types die off. In treating parkinsonism, there are two objectives: stopping the atrophy, and symptomatic relief. L-DOPA does give symptomatic relief, but it might cause further atrophy of the remaining live cells. In other words, it's a trade off.
Like I said, I know of no similar neurological disorder involving serotonin. I see no evidence that loading of serotonin precursors has caused worsening of the course of depressive illness, which is about all you could really compare Parkinson's to. So, I consider the increase of morbid risk to be an improbable effect of serotonin precursor loading.
Lar
Posted by linkadge on December 4, 2005, at 13:07:04
In reply to Re: Question about 5-htp / Tryptophan » linkadge, posted by Larry Hoover on December 4, 2005, at 12:48:34
But I am wondering why the dopamine precursor would cause the disease to worsen. Is there evidence that high level dopa administration could compramise the dopaminergic system in healthy persons ?
And, in your oppinion, since we have many different serotonergic methods of treating depression, lithium, uptake inihibitors, MAOI's,
precursors, ECT, etc, what exactly is wrong with the system, if not atrophy?
Linkadge
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 4, 2005, at 13:51:45
In reply to Re: Question about 5-htp / Tryptophan, posted by linkadge on December 4, 2005, at 13:07:04
> But I am wondering why the dopamine precursor would cause the disease to worsen.
It doesn't. It changes the course of the disease in such a way that the symptoms that do later present are not themselves generally part of the Parkinson's progression. I can't say it better than these abstracts:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11978145&query_hl=27
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12375059&query_hl=27
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=14646609&query_hl=23> Is there evidence that high level dopa administration could compramise the dopaminergic system in healthy persons ?
I suppose there is a toxic threshold in acute exposure, but the issue in respect of Parkinson's is long-term exposure. Moreover, L-DOPA also promotes NE formation, so it's not just a dopamine effect. I know of no long-term study of L-DOPA exposure in healthy people.
>
> And, in your oppinion, since we have many different serotonergic methods of treating depression, lithium, uptake inihibitors, MAOI's,
> precursors, ECT, etc, what exactly is wrong with the system, if not atrophy?
>
>
>
>
> LinkadgeIf I knew, I'd be rich.
Atrophy? I hope not.
A piano can go out of tune, without a single part missing. Atrophy is not a pre-requisite for the loss of utility of a complex system. I do prefer to think of depression as disharmony rather than atrophy.
Lar
Posted by linkadge on December 7, 2005, at 15:22:01
In reply to Re: Question about 5-htp / Tryptophan » linkadge, posted by Larry Hoover on December 4, 2005, at 13:51:45
Although atrophy is concievable. A lot of the work of Dr. Manji shows that both depression and bipolar disorder share many similarities with other neurodegenerative disorders, namely cell loss and atrophy.
It is concevable that chronic anxiety could cause destruction to limbic circutry.
Linkadge
This is the end of the thread.
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