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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Franz on July 31, 2005, at 3:07:10
Hello, I am finding it difficult to get 7-8 hours sound sleep. I wake up at 5-6.
What can help to get continuous sleep?. Not valerian, melatonin or klonopin.
Thanks
Posted by LOOPS on July 31, 2005, at 21:00:27
In reply to help to get enough slep?, posted by Franz on July 31, 2005, at 3:07:10
Hi -
have you tried -
5htp
tryptophan + carb snack
calcium/magnesium pills
brewer's yeast tablets (~5g)Ok - and here's a really weird one -
hot raisins with melted butter (microwaved raisins with butter). I know it sounds stupid, but this really makes me sleepy. I have been known to get up in the middle of the night and make this up to get back to sleep. I eat it and drink 2 bags chamomile tea at same time. Calcium/magnesium also works very well for me to relax my mind, but then that depends on what it is keeping you from slumbering on.
Occasionally I will actually get up and do something, then the next night I will sleep very well. However this depends on what kind of job you have.
When all else fails, a mixture of 1/2 zolpidem (5mg)(mild hypnotic) and a couple of pills of passiflora extract really do the job. It is possible to mix a low dose of mild hypnotics and sleep herbs, but NOT benzos with anything else. I have talked to my doc about this and she agrees. Specifically do not mix kava with hypnotics OR benzos - I had a couple of horrible nights on this mix. However valerian/passiflora(passionflower)/oatseed/melissa etc. etc. with small dose of hypnotic is fine.
I'm sure there's more -
oh yes - aromatherapy -
don't laugh, it does help A LOT.
A hot bath with ~5 drops clary sage essential oil (do not drink copious amounts of alcohol if you're going to use clary sage)
5 drops lavender
5 drops marjoramThis is great for getting off to sleep and should improve your overall relaxation/deep sleep throughout the night.
I always find mixing different therapies works the best (i.e. essential oil bath/herbal pills/in extreme dire need 1/2 zolpidem).
Loops
Posted by linkadge on July 31, 2005, at 23:05:48
In reply to Re: help to get enough slep?, posted by LOOPS on July 31, 2005, at 21:00:27
My best combination has been time released vitamin C 500mg-1g. It has an anticortisol effect that helps me relax. Somtimes I mix in some magnesium.
Linkadge
Posted by Declan on July 31, 2005, at 23:47:39
In reply to help to get enough slep?, posted by Franz on July 31, 2005, at 3:07:10
IMO
Valerian.....no advantage over benzos
Passionflower......slight allergic problem with it
melatonin....doesn't deepen sleep
zizyphus....10g will somewhat deepen sleep and it's not toxic
goji....interesting, might be good if you take enough,expensive
I wish I could get 6 continuous hours. I only get 3, which is OK as long as that's not it for the night. The only thing that sounds promising is Xyrem and you can't get that.
I dunno
Declan
Posted by LOOPS on August 1, 2005, at 10:21:50
In reply to Re: help to get enough slep?, posted by Declan on July 31, 2005, at 23:47:39
I know melatonin isn't working for you - but I just thought I'd say anyway that a very small dose works for me much better than a large one. I'm talking 1mg - any more and I wake up wide awake after 2 hours.
Just in case....
Loops
Posted by Declan on August 1, 2005, at 15:35:23
In reply to Re: help to get enough slep?, posted by LOOPS on August 1, 2005, at 10:21:50
I was taking a thing called Natural Sleep, which contained 2.5mg melatonin IR and 2.5mg SR, with glycine, magnesium, pyridoxal 5 phosphate, inositol and other stuff.
Maybe too much melatonin?
I could always take half.
Declan
Posted by LOOPS on August 1, 2005, at 21:26:19
In reply to Re: help to get enough slep?, posted by Declan on August 1, 2005, at 15:35:23
yes! try half - honestly, I had completely ditched melatonin until I tried a smaller amount and then it worked.
Loops
Posted by Franz on August 3, 2005, at 10:09:46
In reply to help to get enough slep?, posted by Franz on July 31, 2005, at 3:07:10
Hello, here are some comments on your suggesions:
vit C: it tends to wake me up
valerian, passion flower, etc: I like them but they are not working too much now.
klonopin reduces the slep time.
melatonin: small doses are better as you suggested. Give me nightmares (also 5HTP).
Yesterday I took
200 mg taurine
0.25 mg alprazolam
a tiny dose of vodka
strong melissa tea
some carbs
Seemed to work. I took it after I woke up in the middle of the nightAlprazolam is more desinhibitory for me than clonazepam
I do not know if this sleep problem is due to I quit Effexor (used it for 2-3 months).I am also having high blood pressure. I took 10mg propranolol during the day as I read it can ionterfere with sleep.
Supplements I am taking: alpha lipoic acid, TMG, B50. can those be a problem?. Maybe the TMG at morning is causing a late effect?.Thanks
Posted by Declan on August 3, 2005, at 15:25:41
In reply to thanks comments, posted by Franz on August 3, 2005, at 10:09:46
Hey Franz, when do you take your B vits? I think they can keep you awake (they did me) because they are involved in the formation of dopamine and noradrenaline. I don't take any after lunch.
TMG is said to be stimulatory, so I only take that first thing in the morning.
And Vit C wakes you up? I dunno.
Alpha Lipoic acid doesn't keep me awake, I don't think.
But I'm not very good at sleeping either.
Declan
Posted by Franz on August 14, 2005, at 8:50:33
In reply to Re: thanks comments, posted by Declan on August 3, 2005, at 15:25:41
> Hey Franz, when do you take your B vits?
at breakfast, lunch or maybe even later
btw do you kow if taking them on an empty stomack makes any difference?
> I think they can keep you awake (they did me) because they are involved in the formation of dopamine and noradrenaline. I don't take any after lunch.maybe, thanks
> TMG is said to be stimulatory, so I only take that first thing in the morning.
I will do the same although I can´t tell if I feel anything from it
> And Vit C wakes you up? I dunno.
Have you tried it?. It has a slight effect.
> Alpha Lipoic acid doesn't keep me awake, I don't think.ok but wasn´t that it is used in supplements (for mitochondria) with ALCAR?
> But I'm not very good at sleeping either.
> Declan:-)
Posted by Declan on August 14, 2005, at 20:34:17
In reply to Re: thanks comments » Declan, posted by Franz on August 14, 2005, at 8:50:33
Hi Franz
I think B vits on an empty stomach would be irritating to me, certainly some vits. C and pantothenic acid would be, I think.
Declan
This is the end of the thread.
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