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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jasmineneroli on November 5, 2004, at 0:36:56
Apologies if this has been raised before, but my Pdoc has taken me off my low dose of Celexa, due to S/E's and replaced it with L-Tryptophan. He feels I will have less or no S/E's. I'm still on my low dose of Klon. He's left the daily dosing up to me, because he says that people have a wide range of dosage responses. I can take 500-1500mg per day to start with and experiment with timing.
I'm on day 4 on Trypt. and off Celexa.
Question 1: Exactly which 5ht receptors does Tryptophan affect?
2: Does it affect other catecholamines at all?
3: I'm taking 1250mg at night right now (zero side effects - yay, although waiting for sexual s/e's of Celexa to subside), is this the best time? Should I spread the dose out during the day?
4: On night 2, I took 1500mg at bedtime and just after falling asleep I had a very weird experience. I had a frightening dream and tried to scream in the dream, but couldn't. My throat seemed really closed up. I awoke, to find myself still trying to scream, but feeling terror and a constricted throat. In the past I've had dreams where I couldn't scream, but this was extreme and carried over to waking.I couldn't even call out for help. It took at least 5 minutes to be able to make a sound. This was only about 15 mins after falling asleep. I rarely dream at all. Was it the tryptophan, or coincidence?
Thanks for your help.
Jas
Posted by MKB on November 6, 2004, at 11:30:46
In reply to L-Tryptophan - dosages dreams receptors??, posted by Jasmineneroli on November 5, 2004, at 0:36:56
I'm so glad there is a question on here today about L-Tryptophan. Why? Because I was wondering how I could get on the board somehow to say to the world that I FEEL GOOD! I think the Effexor XR I stopped taking is finally out of my system and the L-Tryptophan I started taking about 10 days ago is really working.
I am only taking 500 mg because that is what I used to take before it was banned by the FDA. I decided to stay at that dosage for a couple of weeks to give it a chance to work. I did have a couple of bad nights in the beginning...trouble falling asleep and weird dreams. That only lasted about three nights and may have had another cause. Now I am sleeping well and I feel VERY calm. Hopefully, this is going to continue.
I am glad I chose to give the lower dosage time to work, but if I think it's not working well after a couple more weeks, I will increase it to 1000 mg. Where are you getting the L-Tryptophan and how much does it cost? I am getting mine from www.healthrecovery.com. (60 - 500 mg capsules for $25.00 + $5 shipping)
I'll be interested to hear what your experiences are. After many bad experiences with various antidepressants, I am very happy to know that safe, legal L-Tryptophan is now available for folks like me with depression, anxiety, and problems sleeping.
Posted by JLx on November 6, 2004, at 19:35:08
In reply to L-Tryptophan - dosages dreams receptors??, posted by Jasmineneroli on November 5, 2004, at 0:36:56
There's some info Joan Matthews Larson's site ("Depression Freee Naturally") http://www.healthrecovery.com/ including to take B6, Vit C and also some niacin with it.
"In one notable study, a Dutch medical researcher demonstrated that the combination of tryptophan (2 grams nightly) and vitamin B6 (125 mg three times daily) could restore patients with anxiety-type depression to normal in four weeks. Remember that the type of depression that is accompanied by anxiety and sleep disturbances is most likely to respond to tryptophan (serotonin's precursor.)"
Hmm...I've been taking tryptophan lately but not that much B6.
I had some nightmares at first too, just as I used to when I first went on an SSRI. Must be something about the serotonin.
It makes me too sleepy to take during the day.
JL
> Apologies if this has been raised before, but my Pdoc has taken me off my low dose of Celexa, due to S/E's and replaced it with L-Tryptophan. He feels I will have less or no S/E's. I'm still on my low dose of Klon. He's left the daily dosing up to me, because he says that people have a wide range of dosage responses. I can take 500-1500mg per day to start with and experiment with timing.
> I'm on day 4 on Trypt. and off Celexa.
> Question 1: Exactly which 5ht receptors does Tryptophan affect?
> 2: Does it affect other catecholamines at all?
> 3: I'm taking 1250mg at night right now (zero side effects - yay, although waiting for sexual s/e's of Celexa to subside), is this the best time? Should I spread the dose out during the day?
> 4: On night 2, I took 1500mg at bedtime and just after falling asleep I had a very weird experience. I had a frightening dream and tried to scream in the dream, but couldn't. My throat seemed really closed up. I awoke, to find myself still trying to scream, but feeling terror and a constricted throat. In the past I've had dreams where I couldn't scream, but this was extreme and carried over to waking.I couldn't even call out for help. It took at least 5 minutes to be able to make a sound. This was only about 15 mins after falling asleep. I rarely dream at all. Was it the tryptophan, or coincidence?
> Thanks for your help.
> Jas
>
Posted by Larry Hoover on November 7, 2004, at 11:50:19
In reply to L-Tryptophan - dosages dreams receptors??, posted by Jasmineneroli on November 5, 2004, at 0:36:56
> Apologies if this has been raised before, but my Pdoc has taken me off my low dose of Celexa, due to S/E's and replaced it with L-Tryptophan. He feels I will have less or no S/E's. I'm still on my low dose of Klon. He's left the daily dosing up to me, because he says that people have a wide range of dosage responses. I can take 500-1500mg per day to start with and experiment with timing.
> I'm on day 4 on Trypt. and off Celexa.
> Question 1: Exactly which 5ht receptors does Tryptophan affect?Well, all of them, but indirectly. By supplying serotonin precursor, you optimize your body's ability to "do the right thing" with respect to serotonergic function.
> 2: Does it affect other catecholamines at all?
Yes, indirectly. In a crude simplification, serotonin opposes dopamine. The thing is, sometimes that's good and sometimes that's bad. Depression, for example, isn't just serotonergic hypofunction. In some regions of the brain, it's hyperfunction. Blocking reuptake, as SSRIs do, can make certain abnormalities worse, not better.
> 3: I'm taking 1250mg at night right now (zero side effects - yay, although waiting for sexual s/e's of Celexa to subside), is this the best time? Should I spread the dose out during the day?
No reason to move away from night-time dosing. Many people find that it improves sleep, but the effect will carry over into the day.
> 4: On night 2, I took 1500mg at bedtime and just after falling asleep I had a very weird experience. I had a frightening dream and tried to scream in the dream, but couldn't. My throat seemed really closed up. I awoke, to find myself still trying to scream, but feeling terror and a constricted throat. In the past I've had dreams where I couldn't scream, but this was extreme and carried over to waking.I couldn't even call out for help. It took at least 5 minutes to be able to make a sound. This was only about 15 mins after falling asleep. I rarely dream at all. Was it the tryptophan, or coincidence?
I'd be hard pressed to call it just a coincidence. Your sleep structure could have been abnormal before the tryptophan intake, and you're simply conscious of how much it is changing. Alternatively, this may be a combination effect of Celexa withdrawal and tryptophan supplementation.
> Thanks for your help.
> JasLet us know how it goes.
Lar
Posted by MKB on November 7, 2004, at 12:17:18
In reply to Re: L-Tryptophan - dosages dreams receptors?? » Jasmineneroli, posted by Larry Hoover on November 7, 2004, at 11:50:19
Your knowledge and input are so appreciated. Do you do this for a living? If so, and if you're anywhere within 600 miles of Houston, I'd like to know.
Posted by Larry Hoover on November 7, 2004, at 12:25:02
In reply to Re: L-Tryptophan - dosages dreams receptors?? » Larry Hoover, posted by MKB on November 7, 2004, at 12:17:18
> Your knowledge and input are so appreciated. Do you do this for a living? If so, and if you're anywhere within 600 miles of Houston, I'd like to know.
No, I don't do it for a living. I'm thinking about writing....some way of getting financial returns for what I love to do.
I'm nowhere near Houston. I'm an hour northeast of Toronto.
Feel free to make use of the free advice.
Lar
Posted by MKB on November 7, 2004, at 13:37:25
In reply to Re: L-Tryptophan - dosages dreams receptors?? » MKB, posted by Larry Hoover on November 7, 2004, at 12:25:02
I hope you do write a book, and soon. Though I know you are completely competent to do it yourself, I'm an education writer and would be happy to help.
I know there is a lot of information "out there" about alternative treatments, but it is often hard to wade through. We need information that is unequivocal, yet simple to understand and easy to apply.
Posted by Larry Hoover on November 8, 2004, at 11:10:38
In reply to Re: L-Tryptophan - dosages dreams receptors?? » Larry Hoover, posted by MKB on November 7, 2004, at 13:37:25
> I hope you do write a book, and soon. Though I know you are completely competent to do it yourself, I'm an education writer and would be happy to help.
Now there's an offer I'd have difficulty passing up. Why don't you email me. lhooverca
at
yahoodotca
Note, .ca not .com
Lar
Posted by jasmineneroli on November 8, 2004, at 13:47:28
In reply to Re: L-Tryptophan - dosages dreams receptors?? » MKB, posted by Larry Hoover on November 8, 2004, at 11:10:38
Hey Lar & MKB:
Yes!! Now there's something I'd LOVE to see - a book written by a collaboration of Babblers, FOR babblers (& others), to make sense of the labyrinth that's mental health disorders and treatments!
Larry, my tryptophan treatment is going SUPERBLY!
I wish I'd done this years ago. (I know, Iknow, early days yet, don't get too excited).
A week into it, I'm still getting these mini-nightmares shortly after falling asleep, but for the rest of the night I sleep well. A few awakenings (but less than before, on Celexa) and I always fall back to sleep right after.
The BIG DIFFERENCE? I awake refreshed and much easier to rouse (not perfect yet, but SO improved). I'm taking 1500mg at bedtime with P5P B6, & Mag Citrate(250mg) & Vit E (400iu.
I'm livelier in the am (I used to be "slow" for up to 4 hours after waking).
I believe your sleep-structure comment to be right on the money.Mood-wise I feel brighter and even. The SAME every day!! I still take the Klon. for anxiety (.25mg at lunch time, .25mg at dinner).
I had ONE day where I was very hyper-energy and creative, but scattered-that came with an edgy nervous feeling, last week. I sometimes have this odd combo of happy head and nervous, anxious body. (That has been ongiong forever, but I only got it once in the last 7 days, and I just exercised the physical anxiety "buzzing ball in the solar plexus" away).
So I'm very pleased so far. :).
As tryptophan is a precursor to 5ht and affects all 5ht receptors, without blocking, or inhibiting re-uptake, would it have a more "balancing affect" (in terms of serotonin and other neurotransmitters) as compared to a very selective SSRI, such as Celexa? Has the Celexa, in fact, "unbalanced" my brain (along with the other 8 meds before it, including Celexa another time)?
Is it a case of "I only use the tryptophan, if my brain needs it"? To put it a bit crudely.
Am I experiencing a more "normal" (for want of a better term) effect on serotonin levels?
Also, on dosage, is there a typical therapeutic range? My pdoc (and I thank him for suggesting and prescribing the tryptophan - not getting stuck with the pharmaceuticals) suggested 500-1500mg to start, but said some people need to take up to 3,000mg daily.
NO side effects so far, beyond nightmares. This is so positive for me!!Thanks for ALL the feedback, Larry. I'm so appreciative of the time you spend.
Warmest wishes,
Jas
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