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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 4 of 4. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by smartweed on September 7, 2004, at 15:41:35
Greetings. I'm a 50-year-old woman with a longstanding diagnosis of Bipolar Disorder (type II). I have undergone conventional treatments (medications and/or psychotherapy) off and on since my early 20s. I have probably never been completely free of symptoms (beginning in childhood), but I have had periods of relative stability during which I have been able to function reasonably well.
Although I certainly don't dismiss the medical model as a partial explanation for my "illness," I believe that its overstated. My developmental history was one of trauma and sustained emotional neglect, which my last pdoc dismissed as being of no significance whatsoever in the etiology of my "disease." His assertions that its all a matter of my having "a brain disease" - bad genes and faulty wiring - might perhaps not be so troubling if the extravagent claims made for the efficacy of medications were borne out by my experience. Medications have not, however, been very effective for me: I am "treatment resistant." I won't detail the years of misdiagnosis and medications trials I've been through, which would no doubt be a familiar story to most of you. Through it all, I seemed to do just as well (or badly) on or off medications.
In the last few years, I did have some success with Lamictal, Wellbutrin and Seroquel as prescribed by my last pdoc. But eventually my symptoms reemerged, and each time I reported a deterioration in my mood, the pdoc advised adding additional medications (and gave me an additional diagnosis of ADD). Given my lack of sustained positive response to medications, and my feeling that the "fix" - if there is one - has also to involve my coming to terms with the psychodynamic foundations of my disorder and the fallout from a lifetime of instability, I have long been conflicted about medications as the solution. My latest course of therapy has driven me to a point of despair. Its a conundrum: on the one hand, I'm being told that I must accept that I have a brain disease and that I'll need to be on medications for the rest of my life; on the other hand, the medications don't work. I believe that much of my depression has to do with feeling that I am powerless to control the direction of my life. I am struggling to overcome this black view of things, but my pdoc's assertions simply reinforce the idea that I have no control.
The so-called "stress-diathesis" model - the notion that genetic vulnerability in combination with stressful life circumstances can result in mental illness - makes a great deal of sense to me. I can accept that I am "brain damaged" but I also tend to think that the brain is "plastic" and can be rehabilitated to some extent with therapeutic interventions that do not involve medications.
I recently began attending a bipolar support group, and so far it seems to be about accepting one's "illness" rather than striving to get well. People introduce themselves by saying "I'm so-and-so, and I am bipolar". They talk about taking it all one day at a time. The hegemony of the psychopharmacology discourse is overwhelming and its assumptions underlie discussions and conversations at every level. I feel so isolated in my views.
I took myself off medications last March, and I have been sinking into a deep depression. I could probably ride out the depression, but what always tends to do me in is the acute anxiety (generalized and social) that tends to come with it. Its possible that this would have been mitigated somewhat by the medications, but maybe not, as I've had several similar episodes while on the meds. I don't want to see the pdoc, who will attempt to scare and bully me into taking more meds, new meds.
Anyone who has struggled with the debilitating effects of depression, bipolar disorder, etc. will know how heartbreaking their effects can be. Presumably some of you post on this forum because you question the assumptins of psychiatric of the establishment and are searching for alternative understandings and remedies.
I am searching for some hope and a possibility that I may still find some way of healing that doesn't involve psychopharmacology. I have recently begun researching nutritional supplements and have begun taking fish oil, vitamin C, vitamin B12, a multivitamin, lecithin, and L-threonine. I don't know if this is a good combination, but its from a "shopping list" I found on the internet. The L-threonine has been effective in reducing my anxiety, but its too soon to tell if the other supplements are having any effect. I am also trying to learn meditation to relieve my anxiety, to practice yoga, and to get regular aerobic exercise.
Sorry if I've been rambling. I would be grateful to anyone who would share their experiences with alternative therapies for bipolar disorder. What influenced you to seek alternatives? Have they worked for you?
Thanks so much.
Posted by KaraS on September 7, 2004, at 22:14:09
In reply to New to alternatives, posted by smartweed on September 7, 2004, at 15:41:35
> Greetings. I'm a 50-year-old woman with a longstanding diagnosis of Bipolar Disorder (type II). I have undergone conventional treatments (medications and/or psychotherapy) off and on since my early 20s. I have probably never been completely free of symptoms (beginning in childhood), but I have had periods of relative stability during which I have been able to function reasonably well.
>
> Although I certainly don't dismiss the medical model as a partial explanation for my "illness," I believe that its overstated. My developmental history was one of trauma and sustained emotional neglect, which my last pdoc dismissed as being of no significance whatsoever in the etiology of my "disease." His assertions that its all a matter of my having "a brain disease" - bad genes and faulty wiring - might perhaps not be so troubling if the extravagent claims made for the efficacy of medications were borne out by my experience. Medications have not, however, been very effective for me: I am "treatment resistant." I won't detail the years of misdiagnosis and medications trials I've been through, which would no doubt be a familiar story to most of you. Through it all, I seemed to do just as well (or badly) on or off medications.
>
> In the last few years, I did have some success with Lamictal, Wellbutrin and Seroquel as prescribed by my last pdoc. But eventually my symptoms reemerged, and each time I reported a deterioration in my mood, the pdoc advised adding additional medications (and gave me an additional diagnosis of ADD). Given my lack of sustained positive response to medications, and my feeling that the "fix" - if there is one - has also to involve my coming to terms with the psychodynamic foundations of my disorder and the fallout from a lifetime of instability, I have long been conflicted about medications as the solution. My latest course of therapy has driven me to a point of despair. Its a conundrum: on the one hand, I'm being told that I must accept that I have a brain disease and that I'll need to be on medications for the rest of my life; on the other hand, the medications don't work. I believe that much of my depression has to do with feeling that I am powerless to control the direction of my life. I am struggling to overcome this black view of things, but my pdoc's assertions simply reinforce the idea that I have no control.
>
> The so-called "stress-diathesis" model - the notion that genetic vulnerability in combination with stressful life circumstances can result in mental illness - makes a great deal of sense to me. I can accept that I am "brain damaged" but I also tend to think that the brain is "plastic" and can be rehabilitated to some extent with therapeutic interventions that do not involve medications.
>
> I recently began attending a bipolar support group, and so far it seems to be about accepting one's "illness" rather than striving to get well. People introduce themselves by saying "I'm so-and-so, and I am bipolar". They talk about taking it all one day at a time. The hegemony of the psychopharmacology discourse is overwhelming and its assumptions underlie discussions and conversations at every level. I feel so isolated in my views.
>
> I took myself off medications last March, and I have been sinking into a deep depression. I could probably ride out the depression, but what always tends to do me in is the acute anxiety (generalized and social) that tends to come with it. Its possible that this would have been mitigated somewhat by the medications, but maybe not, as I've had several similar episodes while on the meds. I don't want to see the pdoc, who will attempt to scare and bully me into taking more meds, new meds.
>
> Anyone who has struggled with the debilitating effects of depression, bipolar disorder, etc. will know how heartbreaking their effects can be. Presumably some of you post on this forum because you question the assumptins of psychiatric of the establishment and are searching for alternative understandings and remedies.
>
> I am searching for some hope and a possibility that I may still find some way of healing that doesn't involve psychopharmacology. I have recently begun researching nutritional supplements and have begun taking fish oil, vitamin C, vitamin B12, a multivitamin, lecithin, and L-threonine. I don't know if this is a good combination, but its from a "shopping list" I found on the internet. The L-threonine has been effective in reducing my anxiety, but its too soon to tell if the other supplements are having any effect. I am also trying to learn meditation to relieve my anxiety, to practice yoga, and to get regular aerobic exercise.
>
> Sorry if I've been rambling. I would be grateful to anyone who would share their experiences with alternative therapies for bipolar disorder. What influenced you to seek alternatives? Have they worked for you?
>
> Thanks so much.
Hi smartweed,Until someone with more knowledge and experience in this area can help you, you might want to do a search for posts by BarbarCat. She was taking St. John's Wort along with lithium and it was very successful for her.
-K
Posted by JLx on September 24, 2004, at 17:06:47
In reply to New to alternatives, posted by smartweed on September 7, 2004, at 15:41:35
> I am searching for some hope and a possibility that I may still find some way of healing that doesn't involve psychopharmacology. I have recently begun researching nutritional supplements and have begun taking fish oil, vitamin C, vitamin B12, a multivitamin, lecithin, and L-threonine. I don't know if this is a good combination, but its from a "shopping list" I found on the internet.
You also might benefit from magnesium supplementation as many if not most people are considered deficient in the common modern diet.
JL
Posted by LOOPS on September 26, 2004, at 16:24:12
In reply to Re: New to alternatives » smartweed, posted by JLx on September 24, 2004, at 17:06:47
Also try researching taurine, as this has been found to be low in bipolars. I use taurine to control my anxiety and stabilize my emotions somewhat.
There is also lithium orotate which gives you a much lower dose of lithium than normal but due to the orotate form is effective.
Some bipolars have found 5htp or tryptophan very helpful - I take 5htp.
Zinc is also low in people with depression / anxiety. You can take quite high doses of zinc before you start affecting levels of iron/copper.
And of course B vitamins have been found to be very useful in all types of depression / nervous disorders. Thiamin is calming, niacinamide binds to benzo receptors in your brain, B6 sometimes needs to be supplemented in its co-enzyme form to be useful - supports production of both norepinephrine and serotonin.
I have never been to a doctor to be diagnosed, but have emotional cycles with tend to the extreme all my life. For me not one single supplement worked on its own, but combining a couple of key ones has been extremely helpful - brought down the anxiety and lifted my depression, and made life much more liveable.
Don't be afraid to try things in 'mega' doses - vitamins in particular. If I were you I would buy a book specifically dealing with orthomolecular medicine (using vitamins/aminos/minerals etc in mega doses to treat depression/anxiety/mental disorders etc). There are quite a few on the market written by doctors with a lot of experience. This way you will know how to balance various nutrients/vitamins in the body/brain properly.
Good luck.
Loops
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