![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 37 to 61 of 72. Go back in thread:
Posted by Simus on September 6, 2004, at 1:23:07
In reply to Re: allergy testing » KaraS, posted by Larry Hoover on September 5, 2004, at 10:11:37
> > Honestly, I think there was only one thing missing: in one of Simus' posts about the kind of food sensitivity test she had done. You said that there were good tests for this and not so good ones. She mentioned RASP and either ELISA or ERISA (I think it was the former). The ELISA/ERISA one I believe is what I had years ago. That's the good one, isn't it?
>
> Food sensitivies/allergies are a huge conceptual quagmire. There is a lot of psuedoscience in there.
>
> RAST can be very useful. It is a test of IgE response to allergens. For that, it works beautifully, but.....
> a) it is most useful for inhallant allergens (e.g. pollens, spores)
> b) it has a strong negative predictive utility (i.e. no RAST response is a pretty good indication that the body is not sensitized (90% utility on negative responses))
> c) positive tests are merely suggestive. Only if a food history indicates a possible sensitivity, and the RAST is positive, should there be any clinical response (e.g. food elimination/rechallenge, or better yet double-blind food challenge (best done in the doctor's office, because if you have a serious response, it is an emergency)).
>
> ELISA is a test for IgG response. Everybody has IgG responses to food, and, in fact, IgG responses may be protective against IgE responses (which can be fatal). All formal allergy specialists (doctors with extra years of study in residency programs) dismiss ELISA as an unreliable measure, except when its results bolster the RAST, and food diaries.
>
> See: http://www.tldp.com/issue/174/IgG%20Food%20Allergy.html
>
> RAST itself is perhaps a "lazy man's" version of skin prick tests. But, even those can be unreliable, as most of the food extracts are not stable (they are perishable). Same goes for the RAST reagents. They are notoriously unstable. RAST *is* an excellent way to determine e.g. peanut, shellfish, wheat, etc. allergies, as most of the top allergens do have stable and reliable allergens to employ in the tests. It gets less reliable the more you move away from the most common allergens.
>
> Moreover, even a negative test (via RAST or skin-prick) does not guarantee the absence of allergy, or cross-reactivity. Peanut allergy can show up as an allergic response to licorice. An allergy to birch pollen can make you react to apple skins, but only when the offending pollen is sensitizing you (i.e. only in the spring). It's a very messy and illogical environment.
>
> The take-home message is that RAST (better) and ELISA (far less reliable) are starting points for investigations, not points from which conclusions can be reached.
>
> You may get a lot out of perusing this site:
> http://www.allergy-clinic.co.uk/food_allergy_testing.htm
>
> > P.S. How old are your two sons?
>
> Alexander is 12 (but his voice is changing, and he's already acting teenage, and he is almost as big as me). Thomas is 10, and even he is over five feet and 105 lbs. The food bills are already outrageous. Thank god I love to cook.
>
> LarWow, Lar. Thanks for all the info. That must have taken some time to put together! I didn't know any of that. I think my test was the "Lab C" in the first site you recommended. I guess I was just looking for a general screening tool to point out any definite "stay away from"s that could further stress my immune system. On their scale (0 - +4), I was interested in the +3s and +4s, and none showed up. I had three +2s and 29 +1s. I didn't get the "test result interpretation" booklet yet, nor have I spoken with the doctor yet (she mailed the results to me - gotta admire that at least). But between you and me, I am not planning on avoiding the 29 +1s (they include lettuce in that, for crying out loud). I will probably keep the +2s in the back of my mind, to watch how I react to them when I eat them. I haven't noticed a real problem with them before. Now my mother who got the same test the same day as I did, only had 8 foods on her list. But she got a +4 for brewer's yeast and a +3 for baker's yeast. She had tested positive with the skin test for yeasts in the past. Based on the two sets of tests, I think it would be wise if she avoided yeast completely. So like you said, it is a good place to start. I will pass all this info along...
Thanks again and God bless,
Simus
Posted by Simus on September 6, 2004, at 1:58:07
In reply to Re: pyroluria...symptom or disorder? » Simus, posted by Larry Hoover on September 5, 2004, at 10:22:21
> > > I can't think of a single disorder where fish oils are contraindicated. If you can find such a reference, let me know, 'kay?
> >
> > It is because of the pyroluria condition. Dr. Edmond O`Flaherty has a very good Omega3 website http://www.omega3.20megsfree.com/whats_new.html where he included some of Dr. Walsh's work at the Pfeiffer clinic on pyrolurics. "We've had considerable success in using PUFA's (poly-unsaturated fatty acids) to treat persons with mental illness, but have found that omega-3 and omega-6 oils can cause clear worsening if given inappropriately. Pyrolurics need omega-6..... whereas most other patients need omega-3. There is a competition between o3 and o6 for zinc, B-6, and the delta 5,6 desaturases. The ideal would be to identify a person's biochemical individuality, with respect to PUFA's, then treat accordingly."
>
> I've only just begun to root out the truth within the theory, and it doesn't look good for Pfeiffer et al.
>
> There are correlations between a sub-population of the mentally ill and nutritional status and pyrroles in urine. Correlation can be explained in four possible ways. A leads to B; B leads to A (identical correlation in both these cases); coincidence; or, both A and B are caused by an unmeasured entity (or entities) C (and D, etc.).
>
> I am arriving at the conlusion that this latter case is the better explanation. Porphyria is a disorder of heme synthesis. Porphyrrins are essential protein-derived "shells" for the reactive metal ion in various molecules, such as chlorophyll, or hemoglobin. Porphyria has many variants, so it's hard to make generalizations, but one form is out-of-control synthesis of the pyrroles which are later turned into porphyrins. The excess pyrroles are dumped into urine by the kidneys. The pyrroles have numerous adverse effects, including psychosis and mood disturbance. Those adverse effects can be ameliorated by zinc and B6 supplements, in some cases. I believe that pyroluria (as a disorder) is an accidental re-discovery of porphyria, by someone who did not recognize its origin.
>
> LarLar,
I did check out porphyria, and I didn't really fall into any of the several sub-categories mentioned. However, it does make sense that "pyroluria" could possibly another sub-categories under porphyria. I understand that you look at things through a biochemist's eye. But when I was so sick, I looked at it and say, "Hey, that's me! That's my whole medical history right there! And the treatment makes me feel better!" So exactly what causes it and what it is named weren't nearly as important to me when I found it as the fact that I had finally found some relief from lifelong symptoms. The one thing that does concern me now is that since it really isn't recognized by most of the medical community (as anything at all), it won't be tested for in general and people who could be greatly helped with simple supplements like zinc and B6 just seem to get sicker and sicker... So I hope whatever it is gets more attention and research and finds a "home" somewhere in the medical journals so people like me don't have to go through what I did.
Once again, your knowledge astounds me, and I appreciate your continued help.
Simus
Posted by Simus on September 6, 2004, at 2:14:01
In reply to Re: Licorice » Simus, posted by Larry Hoover on September 5, 2004, at 10:27:02
> > Kara and Larry,
> >
> > Well today around 6pm I FINALLY got up the courage to try the licorice after a couple of years. (I have become leary of taking anything since a few BAD reactions.) Well... At around 9pm I had a slice of pizza (late and not great supper). I wasn't feeling well, but I attributed it to waiting so long for supper. Within minutes I was running to the bathroom and my stomach violently returned my dinner. Then the diarrhea started. I was so miserable that I was contemplating going to the hospital. I called my family physician and told him I took licorice. He wasn't surprised with the reaction, and said that licorice is toxic to a lot of people. He told me to just ride it out for about 12-24 hours, and it will be out of my system and I will feel better (and to stick to liquids).
> >
> > I was just wondering if either of you have any thoughts on this.
> >
> > Simus
>
> Oh, most certainly, I do.
>
> Licorice is an accepted treatment for stomach upset. It is not known to cause it.
>
> Licorice can be toxic, if you take it for months on end. It causes pseudo-aldosteronism.
>
> I think there are two reasonable explanations for your experience.
> 1. Coincidence. You were going to be sick anyway.
> 2. Allergy. That is a possibility, but it would be exceedingly rare, and I'd have thought you'd know about that already, unless you seldom eat licorice.
>
> If you think you can bear the risk, try taking some on another day, with a meal.
>
> Challenge/rechallenge is an accepted way to consider coincidence as a possible explanation.
>
> LarLarry,
Wow! I was one sick puppy! I think that the only way I would ever try licorice again is possibly sipping on a tea on a full stomach. I know my medical doctor used the word "toxic", but an allergic reaction or sensitivity would probably be more believable. As far as history with it, I never did eat licorice candy. I hated the taste and the smell. So I wouldn't know if I was allergic to it. I don't even know if the candy is flavored with real licorice. It could be anise, or artifically flavored for all I know. Well, live and learn...
Simus
Posted by KaraS on September 6, 2004, at 2:38:35
In reply to Re: Kara - not the best day, posted by Simus on September 6, 2004, at 0:40:02
> > > Today was the first day of depression since February (Wellbutrin). What a disappointment. Just when I was all set to NEVER have to deal with that again. Sigh...
> >
> > NEVER say NEVER! It's too dangerous. Everyone has bad days. Even people who don't need antidepressants. You're probably just reacting to the horrible couple of days you've had. (Make that horrible couple of weeks you've had. It's hard not to feel depressed when you feel so physically ill.)
>
> You are so right, my friend! Why should I be the only one exempt from a "down" day once in a while??? Before all this doctors/meds stuff, I would have just had a good cry, a pint of chocolate ice cream, and moved on. But now, my initial (over)reaction is, "OH NO!!! It's starting ALL over AGAIN!"You're entitled. I think that's a natural reaction to experiencing depression again esp. after what you went through. I would feel the same way. I keep thinking of something Larry said once: "sometimes ya dip". I think that says it all.
> Just a few minutes ago, it occurred to me that even the slightest fever always used to cause depression. So I took my temperature, and guess what??? Low-grade fever. I am very relieved that this is quite possibly the only reason for the depression today. But I am overwhelmed by a great sense of remorse that my answer may be so simple while so many others struggle to get a handle on something to help them. I hate mental illness of any kind, from any cause, and what it does to the lives of so many people. Anyhow... There's my $0.02 worth... Oh, by the way, you and Lar and the gang are in my prayers. =)
I know. I've read some really heartbreaking posts on these boards and it just makes me so sad and angry that all of us have to go through such hardship.
Thanks for including me in your prayers. I don't pray much myself but if I did, I'd include you as well.
> > > > As an aside, I live in a section of LA (Brentwood) where a lot of stars live. Of course I'm in a dumpy apartment building and they're in mansions up in the hills, but I still run into them in town. You wouldn't believe who was walking in front of my complex as I drove into the driveway a couple of weeks ago? I was just a few feet from them and I nearly crashed my car when I saw them.
> > >
> > > You know, I'm sensing a mean streak here... LOL
> > >
> > > > Or who I walked past once (he was going out and I was going in) when I went to the Whole Foods store down the street from me.
> > >
> > > OK, now I'm certain of it!!! You better 'fess up, girl!
> > >
> > > Simus
> > >
> >
> > I'll babble-mail you about the rest of it.
>
> Wow!!! The one at the store was absolutely my favorite male actor when I was younger. He still probably is, but we don't see much of him anymore. Brilliant actor! Thanks for sharing, and keep me posted.Also ironically, all of the people I told about seeing him weren't terribly impressed because they had all met him or had something more than that to do with him themselves. It really burst my bubble. One of my friends is in catering and she has catered at some small parties he's been at and he has actually helped her to clear tables!!! So, needless to say, on top of being a fabulous actor, he's also a really good guy.
> Hey, I understand Lar's apartment is in the movies too. Do you think he will be an actor next??? Oh yeah. He said he was applying for a government job. Soooo... Do you think it is for CIA or FBI??? Hmmmmmmmm...
>
> SimusI think we need to find out what he looks like so we can look for him onscreen. Maybe he'll combine the two and be the next James Bond although they'll have to change the name slightly to "Larry Hoover, Scientist at Large".
Posted by Larry Hoover on September 6, 2004, at 6:33:26
In reply to Re: Kara - not the best day » Simus, posted by KaraS on September 6, 2004, at 2:38:35
> Maybe he'll combine the two and be the next James Bond although they'll have to change the name slightly to "Larry Hoover, Scientist at Large".
Quite preferable to "Larry Hoover, Large Scientist", I dare say.
Lar
Posted by KaraS on September 6, 2004, at 12:15:32
In reply to Re: Kara - not the best day, posted by Larry Hoover on September 6, 2004, at 6:33:26
> > Maybe he'll combine the two and be the next James Bond although they'll have to change the name slightly to "Larry Hoover, Scientist at Large".
>
> Quite preferable to "Larry Hoover, Large Scientist", I dare say.
>
> Lar
Hahahaha!
Posted by Simus on September 6, 2004, at 14:04:28
In reply to Re: Kara - not the best day, posted by Larry Hoover on September 6, 2004, at 6:33:26
> > Maybe he'll combine the two and be the next James Bond although they'll have to change the name slightly to "Larry Hoover, Scientist at Large".
>
> Quite preferable to "Larry Hoover, Large Scientist", I dare say.
>
> LarHeHe Gotta keep that sense of humor, Lar!
Simus
Posted by Simus on September 6, 2004, at 14:12:35
In reply to Re: Kara - not the best day » Simus, posted by KaraS on September 6, 2004, at 2:38:35
> > > > Today was the first day of depression since February (Wellbutrin). What a disappointment. Just when I was all set to NEVER have to deal with that again. Sigh...
> > >
> > > NEVER say NEVER! It's too dangerous. Everyone has bad days. Even people who don't need antidepressants. You're probably just reacting to the horrible couple of days you've had. (Make that horrible couple of weeks you've had. It's hard not to feel depressed when you feel so physically ill.)
> >
> > You are so right, my friend! Why should I be the only one exempt from a "down" day once in a while??? Before all this doctors/meds stuff, I would have just had a good cry, a pint of chocolate ice cream, and moved on. But now, my initial (over)reaction is, "OH NO!!! It's starting ALL over AGAIN!"
>
> You're entitled. I think that's a natural reaction to experiencing depression again esp. after what you went through. I would feel the same way. I keep thinking of something Larry said once: "sometimes ya dip". I think that says it all.Yep. Ain't that's the truth. =)
Posted by KaraS on September 6, 2004, at 14:38:11
In reply to Re: Kara - not the best day » KaraS, posted by Simus on September 6, 2004, at 14:12:35
Here's the article I sent Larry and his reaction to it that I was telling you about. I think it's enough for ME to be the one invited along on his next excursion!:
> http://www.pcrm.org/health/prevmed/alzheimers.html
"Excellent article! I could kiss you! Oh, dear. Gabbi might not like that much.
"My relational database brain really liked the way it tied different threads together. I will read this one over and over again, methinks, and springboard from it to other avenues of research. Yes!"
Are you running scared yet, Simus?
I think you best be planning your own vacation next year!!
Posted by Simus on September 6, 2004, at 17:08:47
In reply to Re: Article I sent Larry » Simus, posted by KaraS on September 6, 2004, at 14:38:11
> Here's the article I sent Larry and his reaction to it that I was telling you about. I think it's enough for ME to be the one invited along on his next excursion!:
>
> > http://www.pcrm.org/health/prevmed/alzheimers.html
>
> "Excellent article! I could kiss you! Oh, dear. Gabbi might not like that much.
>
> "My relational database brain really liked the way it tied different threads together. I will read this one over and over again, methinks, and springboard from it to other avenues of research. Yes!"
>
> Are you running scared yet, Simus?
> I think you best be planning your own vacation next year!!Hey! I would have sent him that article, but I sensed how he would react and I didn't want to come between him and Gabbi. I am very sensitive and considerate like that, you know. Plus, I didn't want to appear too "show-off"y. LOL Well, you may be included on the next vacation because of your brains, but don't count me out yet. If I can track them down to the Swiss Alps, I can track them anywhere! (Wouldn't it be funny if they really did go to the Alps??? LOL)
By the way, that is a very interesting article. I haven't read it all, nor do I understand it all, but it is very encouraging to me that someone in doing work in this area.
I will forgive you in time,
Simus
Posted by KaraS on September 6, 2004, at 17:43:13
In reply to Re: Kara - not the best day » KaraS, posted by Simus on September 6, 2004, at 14:12:35
> > > > > Today was the first day of depression since February (Wellbutrin). What a disappointment. Just when I was all set to NEVER have to deal with that again. Sigh...
> > > >
> > > > NEVER say NEVER! It's too dangerous. Everyone has bad days. Even people who don't need antidepressants. You're probably just reacting to the horrible couple of days you've had. (Make that horrible couple of weeks you've had. It's hard not to feel depressed when you feel so physically ill.)
> > >
> > > You are so right, my friend! Why should I be the only one exempt from a "down" day once in a while??? Before all this doctors/meds stuff, I would have just had a good cry, a pint of chocolate ice cream, and moved on. But now, my initial (over)reaction is, "OH NO!!! It's starting ALL over AGAIN!"
> >
> > You're entitled. I think that's a natural reaction to experiencing depression again esp. after what you went through. I would feel the same way. I keep thinking of something Larry said once: "sometimes ya dip". I think that says it all.
>
> Yep. Ain't that's the truth. =)
I don't know what happened to my response to this one... I probably didn't take that second step. But anyway, how are you doing today, both physically and mentally?
Posted by KaraS on September 6, 2004, at 18:12:04
In reply to Re: Article I sent Larry » KaraS, posted by Simus on September 6, 2004, at 17:08:47
> > Here's the article I sent Larry and his reaction to it that I was telling you about. I think it's enough for ME to be the one invited along on his next excursion!:
> >
> > > http://www.pcrm.org/health/prevmed/alzheimers.html
> >
> > "Excellent article! I could kiss you! Oh, dear. Gabbi might not like that much.
> >
> > "My relational database brain really liked the way it tied different threads together. I will read this one over and over again, methinks, and springboard from it to other avenues of research. Yes!"
> >
> > Are you running scared yet, Simus?
> > I think you best be planning your own vacation next year!!
>
> Hey! I would have sent him that article, but I sensed how he would react and I didn't want to come between him and Gabbi. I am very sensitive and considerate like that, you know.Really? How sensitive were you when you crashed their last vacation?
>Plus, I didn't want to appear too "show-off"y. LOL Well, you may be included on the next vacation because of your brains,
I just sent it to him. I didn't say I understood it. (I only understood a small fraction of it.)
> but don't count me out yet. If I can track them down to the Swiss Alps, I can track them anywhere! (Wouldn't it be funny if they really did go to the Alps??? LOL)
Gabbi said that they didn't go to the Swiss Alps, remember? Honestly, you'd better hone those skills if you expect to find "us" the next time!
> By the way, that is a very interesting article. I haven't read it all, nor do I understand it all, but it is very encouraging to me that someone in doing work in this area.Yes, I'd like to think that someday someone could fix the damage...
> I will forgive you in time,
>
> Simus(You're too kind!)
Kara
Posted by Simus on September 6, 2004, at 19:19:47
In reply to Re: Kara - not the best day » Simus, posted by KaraS on September 6, 2004, at 17:43:13
> how are you doing today, both physically and mentally?
Hey guys, I am having an evening a little reminiscent of Friday night - but not quite as bad. I ate an early dinner at around 5:00, took my vitamins, and went on with my day. By 7:00ish, I was starting to feel urpy and generally yucky. Anyway, I took benedryl and advil (my typical response to an allergic reaction to something I ate). And I am sipping ginger tea.Here is where I need some input. Today, as on Friday, I took 3000mg evening primrose oil. I usually take 2000mg borage oil, but Friday I remembered I had this "almost gone" bottle of EPO and decided to just use it instead of the borage oil to use it up and throw away the bottle. It wasn't expired yet - I checked. And I had taken EPO up until a couple of months ago instead of the borage oil. Anyhow, could this be what made me so sick on Friday night instead of the licorice???
I will let you know how the night progresses. God forbid I should have a repeat of Friday night.
Thanks,
Simus
Posted by KaraS on September 6, 2004, at 23:26:45
In reply to Kara and Larry - help?, posted by Simus on September 6, 2004, at 19:19:47
> > how are you doing today, both physically and mentally?
>
> Hey guys, I am having an evening a little reminiscent of Friday night - but not quite as bad. I ate an early dinner at around 5:00, took my vitamins, and went on with my day. By 7:00ish, I was starting to feel urpy and generally yucky. Anyway, I took benedryl and advil (my typical response to an allergic reaction to something I ate). And I am sipping ginger tea.
>
> Here is where I need some input. Today, as on Friday, I took 3000mg evening primrose oil. I usually take 2000mg borage oil, but Friday I remembered I had this "almost gone" bottle of EPO and decided to just use it instead of the borage oil to use it up and throw away the bottle. It wasn't expired yet - I checked. And I had taken EPO up until a couple of months ago instead of the borage oil. Anyhow, could this be what made me so sick on Friday night instead of the licorice???
>
> I will let you know how the night progresses. God forbid I should have a repeat of Friday night.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Simus
Hi Simus,
Usually with supplements I think that they just lose their potency rather than really being able to do any harm. However, with something that is in oil, maybe it could become rancid? Would that give you those symptoms though? Maybe you just have to experiment. I'm inclined to think that something else is going on here. Larry will have more informed comments for you though, I'm sure.You poor thing. I feel so bad that you are having to go throught this. At least when you know what you are dealing with, you can do something. I think that the not knowing is the worst part. But hang in there. You'll figure it out soon enough I would bet.
Please let me know if you're doing any better since you posted the message above.
XXXX OOOO,
Kara
Posted by Simus on September 7, 2004, at 1:11:18
In reply to Re: Kara and Larry - help? » Simus, posted by KaraS on September 6, 2004, at 23:26:45
> > > how are you doing today, both physically and mentally?
> >
> > Hey guys, I am having an evening a little reminiscent of Friday night - but not quite as bad. I ate an early dinner at around 5:00, took my vitamins, and went on with my day. By 7:00ish, I was starting to feel urpy and generally yucky. Anyway, I took benedryl and advil (my typical response to an allergic reaction to something I ate). And I am sipping ginger tea.
> >
> > Here is where I need some input. Today, as on Friday, I took 3000mg evening primrose oil. I usually take 2000mg borage oil, but Friday I remembered I had this "almost gone" bottle of EPO and decided to just use it instead of the borage oil to use it up and throw away the bottle. It wasn't expired yet - I checked. And I had taken EPO up until a couple of months ago instead of the borage oil. Anyhow, could this be what made me so sick on Friday night instead of the licorice???
> >
> > I will let you know how the night progresses. God forbid I should have a repeat of Friday night.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Simus
>
>
> Hi Simus,
> Usually with supplements I think that they just lose their potency rather than really being able to do any harm. However, with something that is in oil, maybe it could become rancid? Would that give you those symptoms though? Maybe you just have to experiment. I'm inclined to think that something else is going on here. Larry will have more informed comments for you though, I'm sure.
>
> You poor thing. I feel so bad that you are having to go throught this. At least when you know what you are dealing with, you can do something. I think that the not knowing is the worst part. But hang in there. You'll figure it out soon enough I would bet.
>
> Please let me know if you're doing any better since you posted the message above.
>
> XXXX OOOO,
> KaraHey Kara, your message made my evening! I feel pretty good now. I did throw the EPO away. I read that it can cause nausea, vomiting and diarrhea. Worse yet, it is not advised for people prone to seizures or on a med that makes people more seizure prone (Wellbutrin is one). Even if it wasn't what made me sick, I just don't want to take a chance...
Just what I needed... I was "kicked off" the internet about an hour ago because SOMEONE ELSE had just signed on using my login and password. Ain't that something?!! I called my internet subscriber and asked them what was going on, and they told me that programs can be put on our computers without our knowledge that somehow make our screen name and password available to hackers. I guess I knew it could happen, I just never thought it would happen to me. They were actually using my ID for at least 4 days, and even sending out mail from my address. Isn't that creepy? It's like finding out someone has been walking around in your home when you were gone. It doesn't even matter if anything was touched... it's just the thought of it...
Anyway, yeah, I am doing better. But as you said before, it can sure seem like a long, long road sometimes...
How have you been doing? Have you tried anything new? How is work? If you ever need any stress relief, let me know. We can start a new game of "Where in the World is Larry Hoover?" I hear it is quite popular in Canada.
God bless,
Simus
Posted by Simus on September 7, 2004, at 1:21:09
In reply to Re: Article I sent Larry » Simus, posted by KaraS on September 6, 2004, at 18:12:04
> > > Here's the article I sent Larry and his reaction to it that I was telling you about. I think it's enough for ME to be the one invited along on his next excursion!:
> > >
> > > > http://www.pcrm.org/health/prevmed/alzheimers.html
> > >
> > > "Excellent article! I could kiss you! Oh, dear. Gabbi might not like that much.
> > >
> > > "My relational database brain really liked the way it tied different threads together. I will read this one over and over again, methinks, and springboard from it to other avenues of research. Yes!"
> > >
> > > Are you running scared yet, Simus?
> > > I think you best be planning your own vacation next year!!
> >
> > Hey! I would have sent him that article, but I sensed how he would react and I didn't want to come between him and Gabbi. I am very sensitive and considerate like that, you know.
>
> Really? How sensitive were you when you crashed their last vacation?Actually, quite sensitive. Especially after Lar threw the glass at me. That downright smarted.
> >Plus, I didn't want to appear too "show-off"y. LOL Well, you may be included on the next vacation because of your brains,
>
> I just sent it to him. I didn't say I understood it. (I only understood a small fraction of it.)
>
> > but don't count me out yet. If I can track them down to the Swiss Alps, I can track them anywhere! (Wouldn't it be funny if they really did go to the Alps??? LOL)
>
> Gabbi said that they didn't go to the Swiss Alps, remember? Honestly, you'd better hone those skills if you expect to find "us" the next time!Wait a minute! I believe what she said was that he was watching a Star Trek marathon in his mother's basement. I don't remember her saying that his mother wasn't Swiss. LOL
> > By the way, that is a very interesting article. I haven't read it all, nor do I understand it all, but it is very encouraging to me that someone in doing work in this area.
>
> Yes, I'd like to think that someday someone could fix the damage...Better yet, in our lifetimes. =)
Simus
(Sometimes we really push the envelope of the "Alternative" board, don't we? Just "Alternative" enough to scrape by... LOL)
Posted by KaraS on September 7, 2004, at 22:09:52
In reply to Re: Kara and Larry - help? » KaraS, posted by Simus on September 7, 2004, at 1:11:18
>
> Hey Kara, your message made my evening! I feel pretty good now. I did throw the EPO away. I read that it can cause nausea, vomiting and diarrhea. Worse yet, it is not advised for people prone to seizures or on a med that makes people more seizure prone (Wellbutrin is one). Even if it wasn't what made me sick, I just don't want to take a chance...That's unbelievable. I never would have suspected that about EPO. I always think of it as so harmless and I've taken it for years without any problem. You have to be careful about borage oil as well. The poorer quality ones can have contaminants. I forgot what the offending chemical involved is. Black currant oil is another alternative as well.
> Just what I needed... I was "kicked off" the internet about an hour ago because SOMEONE ELSE had just signed on using my login and password. Ain't that something?!! I called my internet subscriber and asked them what was going on, and they told me that programs can be put on our computers without our knowledge that somehow make our screen name and password available to hackers. I guess I knew it could happen, I just never thought it would happen to me. They were actually using my ID for at least 4 days, and even sending out mail from my address. Isn't that creepy? It's like finding out someone has been walking around in your home when you were gone. It doesn't even matter if anything was touched... it's just the thought of it...
>How wierd. I've had viruses or worms where they get into your computer and send out spam and viruses from your PC with your name on it. Sometimes I'd get these messages that such and such was undeliverable to some address I'd never ever send anything to. It's amazing what some hackers can do. Of course you feel robbed. It is identity theft. But to throw you off of your own computer, the nerve!!! (Like you need this now of all times.)
BTW, how are you feeling now? Is the depression gone?
> How have you been doing? Have you tried anything new? How is work? If you ever need any stress relief, let me know. We can start a new game of "Where in the World is Larry Hoover?" I hear it is quite popular in Canada.The job today was really fast-paced and stressful and disorganized. They said that when I'm there in the evenings it won't be as crazy. Hopefully, that's true.
I think Larry is bored with us here on the Alternative Board. He's on the main board a lot more now. Also, he's been very involved on the administrative board arguing against some of the recent blocks. I hope he doesn't get himself blocked because of it.
Take care,
Kara
>
> God bless,
>
> Simus
Posted by KaraS on September 7, 2004, at 23:50:02
In reply to Re: Article I sent Larry » KaraS, posted by Simus on September 7, 2004, at 1:21:09
Have you had a chance to talk to your doctor about your thyroid test results? My neighbor just had the same kind of results. She went off of her thyroid medication that she's been taking for years because she was feeling hyperthyroid type symptoms. She's been off of her Armour thyroid for about 4 months now and has been feeling fine - lots of energy, concentration is good and she is warm all of the time. She just got tested and got the results today. Her T4 and T3 levels were fine but her TSH was over 21! Her situation is similar to yours. She hasn't spoken to her endocrinologist yet about it. I'd be very interested in his or her interpretation of those results. I'll let you know when she gets that feedback. Let me know when you get same.
Take care,
Kara
Posted by simus on September 8, 2004, at 0:02:05
In reply to Re: Kara and Larry - help? » Simus, posted by KaraS on September 7, 2004, at 22:09:52
> > Hey Kara, your message made my evening! I feel pretty good now. I did throw the EPO away. I read that it can cause nausea, vomiting and diarrhea. Worse yet, it is not advised for people prone to seizures or on a med that makes people more seizure prone (Wellbutrin is one). Even if it wasn't what made me sick, I just don't want to take a chance...
>
> That's unbelievable. I never would have suspected that about EPO. I always think of it as so harmless and I've taken it for years without any problem. You have to be careful about borage oil as well. The poorer quality ones can have contaminants. I forgot what the offending chemical involved is. Black currant oil is another alternative as well.Hmmmm... I had better read up on the borage oil before I start taking it again...
> > Just what I needed... I was "kicked off" the internet about an hour ago because SOMEONE ELSE had just signed on using my login and password. Ain't that something?!! I called my internet subscriber and asked them what was going on, and they told me that programs can be put on our computers without our knowledge that somehow make our screen name and password available to hackers. I guess I knew it could happen, I just never thought it would happen to me. They were actually using my ID for at least 4 days, and even sending out mail from my address. Isn't that creepy? It's like finding out someone has been walking around in your home when you were gone. It doesn't even matter if anything was touched... it's just the thought of it...
> >
>
> How wierd. I've had viruses or worms where they get into your computer and send out spam and viruses from your PC with your name on it. Sometimes I'd get these messages that such and such was undeliverable to some address I'd never ever send anything to. It's amazing what some hackers can do. Of course you feel robbed. It is identity theft. But to throw you off of your own computer, the nerve!!! (Like you need this now of all times.)Uhhh... Kara??? Strange mail was being sent from my e-mail address starting about a week ago (showed up in "sent" category). That was my FIRST tip that something was going on. That isn't from viruses or worms, but from spyware that has been installed on your computer via the internet. You don't even have to download something to get it - just sometimes click on something and "voile!". Someone actually has your address and password, and heaven only knows what else, thanks to the wonderful world of spywear, and is sending mail from address. I just learned about all of this from my daughter's computer geek boyfriend (I really adore him though). He came over tonight and ran a new virus scan and spywear detector. WOW!!! What a mess I had! My computer was so messed up that he won't let me use it to get on the internet. Well, he cleaned out all of the viruses, but the spywear (or possibly a virus) had somehow corrupted a file and he couldn't remove the spywear because of it. But he did clean out all of the viruses (and spywear) from the kid's machine, so at least I have some access to the internet.
> BTW, how are you feeling now? Is the depression gone?
I am doing much better today, thanks. Well, aside from messing with the computer stuff and fretting over that. Thank God for daughters' geeky boyfriends!!! =) He is only 17, but he brilliant. He is about to start school for electrical engineering. (I hope he remembers "Mom" when he becomes rich and famous! LOL)
> > How have you been doing? Have you tried anything new? How is work? If you ever need any stress relief, let me know. We can start a new game of "Where in the World is Larry Hoover?" I hear it is quite popular in Canada.
>
> The job today was really fast-paced and stressful and disorganized. They said that when I'm there in the evenings it won't be as crazy. Hopefully, that's true.Ooooohhhhh... Nightshift! Right up my alley! I am virtually to the point of not fighting the insomnia anymore and just letting it work in my favor.
> I think Larry is bored with us here on the Alternative Board. He's on the main board a lot more now. Also, he's been very involved on the administrative board arguing against some of the recent blocks. I hope he doesn't get himself blocked because of it.
He seemed pretty stressed once when he posted... I REALLY hope he doesn't get blocked too. He is such a blessing.
God bless,
Simus
(P.S. Get that computer thingie looked into when you can.)
Posted by simus on September 8, 2004, at 0:28:54
In reply to Re: Question for Simus » Simus, posted by KaraS on September 7, 2004, at 23:50:02
> Have you had a chance to talk to your doctor about your thyroid test results? My neighbor just had the same kind of results. She went off of her thyroid medication that she's been taking for years because she was feeling hyperthyroid type symptoms. She's been off of her Armour thyroid for about 4 months now and has been feeling fine - lots of energy, concentration is good and she is warm all of the time. She just got tested and got the results today. Her T4 and T3 levels were fine but her TSH was over 21! Her situation is similar to yours. She hasn't spoken to her endocrinologist yet about it. I'd be very interested in his or her interpretation of those results. I'll let you know when she gets that feedback. Let me know when you get same.
>
> Take care,
> KaraKara,
I have done some research on it, and only one thing is clear now. NO ONE seems to completely understand much about the whole endocrine thing. It is like "brain chemical" issues. Unfortunately, the people who seem like they should have the most answers, the endocrinologists, seem to be the least "in the know".
I guess instead of repeating a lot of really valuable information I have found, I would like to direct you to the message board that TeaLady recommended to me here on PBA. (She posted the site for me a few days ago.) On that message board, look for my name (Simus), and read the posts. A couple of sites mentioned in the last post (?) are wonderful. VERY interesting...
I wish her all the best. I am going to get more testing done, but until I am sure I need the hormones, I am going to avoid them.
Take care,
Simus
Posted by Larry Hoover on September 9, 2004, at 10:42:02
In reply to Kara and Larry - help?, posted by Simus on September 6, 2004, at 19:19:47
> Here is where I need some input. Today, as on Friday, I took 3000mg evening primrose oil. I usually take 2000mg borage oil, but Friday I remembered I had this "almost gone" bottle of EPO and decided to just use it instead of the borage oil to use it up and throw away the bottle. It wasn't expired yet - I checked. And I had taken EPO up until a couple of months ago instead of the borage oil. Anyhow, could this be what made me so sick on Friday night instead of the licorice???
>
> I will let you know how the night progresses. God forbid I should have a repeat of Friday night.
>
> Thanks,
>
> SimusIf the oil had gone rancid, it could easily cause immense stomach problems. Your body senses the rancidity as a measure of food spoilage, and tries to protect you from the potential of contaminated intake. Expiry dates are not an infallible measure of safety, as polyunsaturated fatty acids are perishable. There are things that could have happened to the oil that you could not ever assess, long before you bought it. For example, your particular batch of oil might have been loaded onto a truck on a Friday afternoon, and left sitting out in the hot sun all weekend. You just can't know that sort of thing. If in doubt, throw it out.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on September 9, 2004, at 10:44:51
In reply to Re: Kara and Larry - help? » KaraS, posted by Simus on September 7, 2004, at 1:11:18
> Just what I needed... I was "kicked off" the internet about an hour ago because SOMEONE ELSE had just signed on using my login and password. Ain't that something?!! I called my internet subscriber and asked them what was going on, and they told me that programs can be put on our computers without our knowledge that somehow make our screen name and password available to hackers. I guess I knew it could happen, I just never thought it would happen to me. They were actually using my ID for at least 4 days, and even sending out mail from my address. Isn't that creepy? It's like finding out someone has been walking around in your home when you were gone. It doesn't even matter if anything was touched... it's just the thought of it...
Those hijack programs can do much more harm than that. There is a free and easy to use program to solve this problem. Ad-aware, by lavasoft.
http://www.lavasoftusa.com/software/adaware/
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on September 9, 2004, at 10:49:30
In reply to Re: Kara and Larry - help? » Simus, posted by KaraS on September 7, 2004, at 22:09:52
> I think Larry is bored with us here on the Alternative Board.
No, actually. This Solost, I mean, Zoloft that I'm taking messes with my thinking. Some days I just can't re-immerse myself into these complex threads. And I make some really stupid mistakes, ones I could not reasonably expect myself to make. It's quite frustrating.
> He's on the main board a lot more now.
Covering for chemist, a bit, and trying to provide accurate information.
> Also, he's been very involved on the administrative board arguing against some of the recent blocks.
I'm passionate about fairness.
> I hope he doesn't get himself blocked because of it.
I've learned from my past experiences, though I'm sure I come close to the edge, now and again.
Lar
Posted by KaraS on September 9, 2004, at 17:08:26
In reply to Re: Kara and Larry - help? » KaraS, posted by Larry Hoover on September 9, 2004, at 10:49:30
> > I think Larry is bored with us here on the Alternative Board.
>
> No, actually. This Solost, I mean, Zoloft that I'm taking messes with my thinking. Some days I just can't re-immerse myself into these complex threads. And I make some really stupid mistakes, ones I could not reasonably expect myself to make. It's quite frustrating.Sorry to hear that. I guess even Hoover, Larry Hoover, has his share of brain fog. I was solost on Zoloft too.
> > He's on the main board a lot more now.
>
> Covering for chemist, a bit, and trying to provide accurate information.It can't be easy being Larry Hoover, large scientist (oops, I meant scientist at large).
> > Also, he's been very involved on the administrative board arguing against some of the recent blocks.
>
> I'm passionate about fairness.Yes, I know. That's a good thing.
> > I hope he doesn't get himself blocked because of it.
>
> I've learned from my past experiences, though I'm sure I come close to the edge, now and again.
>
> LarGood. Take care of yourself. You've been missed.
-K
Posted by simus on September 9, 2004, at 21:46:39
In reply to Re: Kara and Larry - help? » KaraS, posted by Larry Hoover on September 9, 2004, at 10:49:30
> This Solost, I mean, Zoloft that I'm taking messes with my thinking. Some days I just can't re-immerse myself into these complex threads. And I make some really stupid mistakes, ones I could not reasonably expect myself to make. It's quite frustrating.
Solost... hehehe... Yeah, I know what you mean. As far as any mistakes, you can rest assured that I wouldn't catch them! Good to see you back.
Simus
P.S. Thanks for the answer on the EPO too.
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