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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 15 to 39 of 39. Go back in thread:
Posted by KaraS on July 11, 2004, at 22:55:22
In reply to Re: Chromium Picolinate Study w/ Atypical Depression, posted by Regis Harold on July 11, 2004, at 19:54:25
> > That's discouraging. Chromium is on my list of things to try. I wonder if it would make any difference if you divided up the dose and took it three times a day instead of all at once. Did anything in your diet change from when you first got the good effect? Did you eat a lot more sugar or stop taking your other vitamins or anything like that? Are you hypoglycemic to begin with? Those are the people who are supposed to be helped the most with chromium.
>
> Kara, probably the only habit that changed drastically was that I started eating more while at work. Eating anything close to a fulfilling lunch during the day turned me into a zombie for the rest of the day. I guess that might indicate that I am hypoglycemic, but I haven't had a blood glucose test done yet. I plan on scheduling a battery of tests (blood glucose, thyroid, etc) in the next couple of weeks.
>
> Although the chromium doesn't provide the same kick that it did in the first week, I can say that I'm no longer a useless zombie at work, and my rejection sensitivity is way down. I can still find it hard to motivate, focus, and concentrate at times, but I don't necessarily shrink away from social interaction. Kara, if you haven't tried it yet, I would say give it a whirl and see what it does for you. I plan on keeping it in my regimen. I might try dividing the doses to see what that does for me.
>
> I was reading another post of yours in which you referred to "Flowers of Algernon." To be honest with you, that's exactly how this past month has been for me. Literally, right after my first dose of chromium, and a week thereafter, I felt on top of the world, and with enough energy to rule it, even. Now I'm back to figuring out how to get myself to "wake up" again.
>
> RegisRegis,
I'm sorry to hear that you had that experience. It wasn't a complete washout though as you still have some benefit from the chromium - just not that unbelievable one you had the first week. Wish I could understand it all and tell you why.
I bet a lot of people here could appreciate the "Algernon" metaphor. To say that you've experienced "poop-out" just doesn't fully capture the emotional devastation.One thing I would suggest is that you read some of the postings here (or read up elsewhere) about thyroid problems before your doctor's appointment (if you haven't already) as many conventionally trained doctors only test for TSH levels and that just doesn't give the full picture. I was told I didn't have thyroid problems by my gp but I knew down deep that I really did as I had all of the symptoms. I begged for a referral to an endocrinologist. He tested me for Hashimoto's Thyroiditis (a simple antibody test) and it came up positive. It's a VERY common condition that goes undiagnosed in many cases.
What other meds and/or supplements are you taking?
Kara
Posted by Larry Hoover on July 12, 2004, at 8:02:02
In reply to Re: Chromium Picolinate Study w/ Atypical Depression, posted by KaraS on July 11, 2004, at 22:55:22
> > Although the chromium doesn't provide the same kick that it did in the first week, I can say that I'm no longer a useless zombie at work, and my rejection sensitivity is way down. I can still find it hard to motivate, focus, and concentrate at times, but I don't necessarily shrink away from social interaction. Kara, if you haven't tried it yet, I would say give it a whirl and see what it does for you. I plan on keeping it in my regimen. I might try dividing the doses to see what that does for me.
> > Regis
>
> Regis,
> I'm sorry to hear that you had that experience. It wasn't a complete washout though as you still have some benefit from the chromium - just not that unbelievable one you had the first week. Wish I could understand it all and tell you why.
> Kara
>I've left both of your statements in, because my comments are more philosophical than scientific. About being human, I guess.
Regis, I think the effect weakened because your body realized it was no longer starving for chromium, and stood down from its desperate attempts to circumvent that deficiency by upregulating every system it could muster, to minimize the adverse effects of that lack. In a symbolic representation, your body regressed to the mean. It normalized on chromium biochemistry. That you're still not well suggests that there are other experiments yet to do, but chromium intake is a piece of your wellness puzzle. I don't think you need that high dose in perpetuity, either. No point going into chromium toxicity/poisoning due to chronic high intake.
And Kara, I think there's another factor at play. I think human brains have a special sense for novelty. Somehow that first experience is always the ne plus ultra (except for sex, heh). Heroin users speak of "chasing the dragon", their first rush, with ever-increasing doses. You gotta climb a higher mountain, next time, and so on. Base jumping is novelty-seeking gone wild. I just think it's being human.
Lar
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 12, 2004, at 17:15:19
In reply to Re: Chromium Picolinate Study w/ Atypical Depression, posted by Regis Harold on July 11, 2004, at 19:54:25
> I was reading another post of yours in which you referred to "Flowers of Algernon."
I'd just like to plug the double double quotes feature at this site:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon
The first time anyone refers to a book without using this option, I post this to try to make sure he or she at least knows about it. It's just an option, though, and doesn't *have* to be used. If people *choose* not to use it, I'd be interested why not, but I'd like that redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7717.html
Thanks!
Bob
Posted by KaraS on July 19, 2004, at 2:11:07
I had some more questions on this. I was going to order and I couldn't decide whether to get the polynicotinate form or GTF Chromium (as niacin–amino acid chelate) or Chromium Chelate (as amino acid chelate). Does anyone know which amino acid(s) are involved with these chelates? It doesn't say on the product descriptions. Does that even matter?
Posted by Regis Harold on July 19, 2004, at 21:55:52
In reply to What happened to the chromium thread?, posted by KaraS on July 19, 2004, at 2:11:07
Hi Kara,
I'm very curious about your post because you imply that chromium polynicotinate and GTF chromium are different. However, the Vitamin Shoppe brand of GTF chromium I use is in fact chromium polynicotinate. So GTF means glucose tolerance factor. However, what makes GTF chromium, GTF chromium? Is the labeling as GTF simply part of a marketing scheme?
I've been taking chromium polynicotinate for about six weeks now, and it's done me some good. Nothing like the first week I was taking it. I'm still trying to figure out whether it was the chromium or if it was the nicotinic acid that caused the effects I felt. I've tried niacinamide without any major change in mood and energy level. I wonder if I should try nicotinic acid in higher doses. Any suggestions?
Larry, as you so aptly put it, I think I am "chasing the dragon" here.
Posted by KaraS on July 19, 2004, at 23:14:13
In reply to Re: What happened to the chromium thread?, posted by Regis Harold on July 19, 2004, at 21:55:52
> Hi Kara,
>
> I'm very curious about your post because you imply that chromium polynicotinate and GTF chromium are different. However, the Vitamin Shoppe brand of GTF chromium I use is in fact chromium polynicotinate. So GTF means glucose tolerance factor. However, what makes GTF chromium, GTF chromium? Is the labeling as GTF simply part of a marketing scheme?
>My guess is that you're probably right about GTF being a marketing scheme because iHerb had GTF chromium that were in both the polynicotinate versions as well as amino chelate versions.
(I'll leave the nicotinic acid discussion for Larry.)> I've been taking chromium polynicotinate for about six weeks now, and it's done me some good. Nothing like the first week I was taking it. I'm still trying to figure out whether it was the chromium or if it was the nicotinic acid that caused the effects I felt. I've tried niacinamide without any major change in mood and energy level. I wonder if I should try nicotinic acid in higher doses. Any suggestions?
>
> Larry, as you so aptly put it, I think I am "chasing the dragon" here.
Posted by gabbix2 on July 21, 2004, at 1:55:42
In reply to What happened to the chromium thread?, posted by KaraS on July 19, 2004, at 2:11:07
I don't know if you still need this, here's a link to the Chromium thread, the board was archived. It's in the June 13th section
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20040613/msgs/356535.html
Posted by KaraS on July 21, 2004, at 9:18:22
In reply to Re: What happened to the chromium thread? » KaraS, posted by gabbix2 on July 21, 2004, at 1:55:42
> I don't know if you still need this, here's a link to the Chromium thread, the board was archived. It's in the June 13th section
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20040613/msgs/356535.html
Thanks.
Posted by sjb on July 30, 2004, at 8:26:01
In reply to Re: What happened to the chromium thread?, posted by KaraS on July 21, 2004, at 9:18:22
I've been tring Chromium Picolinate for over a month now and it has not helped my cravings. I'm taking 600mcg daily, as cited in the report, and will keep trying until I run out in a few more weeks. I think I would have seen some benefits by now, however. Oh, well. I've wasted more money on supplements. Got this batch cheap from Puritan's Pride.
Posted by KaraS on August 1, 2004, at 0:00:38
In reply to No luck with the Chromium . . .yet, posted by sjb on July 30, 2004, at 8:26:01
> I've been tring Chromium Picolinate for over a month now and it has not helped my cravings. I'm taking 600mcg daily, as cited in the report, and will keep trying until I run out in a few more weeks. I think I would have seen some benefits by now, however. Oh, well. I've wasted more money on supplements. Got this batch cheap from Puritan's Pride.
It's not just for cravings. A lot of people feel happier and better when their blood sugar is more stable (which chromium is supposed to do). I've only taken it a couple of times so I don't know yet if it's going to help me at all. I'll start on it more regularly after I give something else a try (don't want to mix new things so I know what the effect of each is). Sorry it didn't help you at all.
Posted by sjb on August 2, 2004, at 10:32:01
In reply to Re: No luck with the Chromium . . .yet, posted by KaraS on August 1, 2004, at 0:00:38
Thanks for the feedback. I hope it helps you. I haven't noticed the other benefits you mentioned either. I'm starting to slip into a depression period again and am so frustrated. I have to force myself to excercise, I crave cookies, cakes and pies ALL the time and SURPRISE, my weight is up. I try to eat normal, regular, healthy meals but am ravenous and crave this other stuff. I even dream about it.
I just feel so lost, alone and helpless. Wish I could just run away. Have a big social event this weekend and am embarrassed to go, don't want to be seen by anyone.
Posted by KaraS on August 2, 2004, at 13:02:08
In reply to Re: No luck with the Chromium . . .yet, posted by sjb on August 2, 2004, at 10:32:01
> Thanks for the feedback. I hope it helps you. I haven't noticed the other benefits you mentioned either. I'm starting to slip into a depression period again and am so frustrated. I have to force myself to excercise, I crave cookies, cakes and pies ALL the time and SURPRISE, my weight is up. I try to eat normal, regular, healthy meals but am ravenous and crave this other stuff. I even dream about it.
>
> I just feel so lost, alone and helpless. Wish I could just run away. Have a big social event this weekend and am embarrassed to go, don't want to be seen by anyone.sjb,
I know exactly how you feel. It doesn't sound like chromium is going to be the answer for you but there are other things out there that can help. Are you taking anything else now - either medications or supplements? I have very little energy or motivation myself and have made a list of different things to try. I don't know how much you know about your options but there are a lot of people on this board who can give you a lot of information. Sometimes it takes a while to find what will work for you but once you do, life will get a lot better.Kara
Posted by sjb on August 2, 2004, at 13:59:21
In reply to Re: No luck with the Chromium . . .yet, posted by KaraS on August 2, 2004, at 13:02:08
Thanks. I'm not taking any other alternative supplement, other than the Chromium. I'm on 20mg of Prozac. I welcome all suggestions and am looking into some things but do not know what are out-and-out scams and which have some merit. I may ask Larry what he knows about some of them.
I've tried with not much help: most of the aminos (high dosages of Glutamine, Tyrosine, Carnitine, DLPA), multis, CoQ10, B-Complex, Fish Oils, and a bunch of other things that I cannot remember or can't remember how to spell.
Posted by KaraS on August 2, 2004, at 19:39:09
In reply to other things to try, posted by sjb on August 2, 2004, at 13:59:21
> Thanks. I'm not taking any other alternative supplement, other than the Chromium. I'm on 20mg of Prozac. I welcome all suggestions and am looking into some things but do not know what are out-and-out scams and which have some merit. I may ask Larry what he knows about some of them.
>
> I've tried with not much help: most of the aminos (high dosages of Glutamine, Tyrosine, Carnitine, DLPA), multis, CoQ10, B-Complex, Fish Oils, and a bunch of other things that I cannot remember or can't remember how to spell.
How long have you been on the Prozac? Has it helped at all? Have you tried any other meds? One of the things that I'm planning on trying soon is Perika (by Nature's Way). I don't know if you know anything about it but it's supposed to be the only really activating/energizing formulation of St. John's Wort. BarbaraCat said that a lot of people with anergic depression swear by it. (You might want to do a search on this site to find out more about it.) It wouldn't be wise to take it with Prozac though.
Posted by sjb on August 3, 2004, at 8:27:01
In reply to Re: other things to try » sjb, posted by KaraS on August 2, 2004, at 19:39:09
I've been on Prozac for years, off and on. It's been the best med for me, but it poops out. I've been on over 25 different meds and combos, inc. most of the SSRIs, Effexor, Wellbutrin, atypicals, MAOIs, anti-anxieties, and mood stabilizers. I'm definately better than I was last winter (when I went off meds completely) but the binge eating is a real problem. Thanks. I'll look into your recommendation, but you're right, it's probably not recommended w/Prozac, I know St. Johns Wart isn't. (Which by the way, SJW did bubkus (sp) for me.)) Thanks for your interest.
Posted by KaraS on August 3, 2004, at 13:46:47
In reply to Re: other things to try, posted by sjb on August 3, 2004, at 8:27:01
> I've been on Prozac for years, off and on. It's been the best med for me, but it poops out. I've been on over 25 different meds and combos, inc. most of the SSRIs, Effexor, Wellbutrin, atypicals, MAOIs, anti-anxieties, and mood stabilizers. I'm definately better than I was last winter (when I went off meds completely) but the binge eating is a real problem. Thanks. I'll look into your recommendation, but you're right, it's probably not recommended w/Prozac, I know St. Johns Wart isn't. (Which by the way, SJW did bubkus (sp) for me.)) Thanks for your interest.
Is your depression anxious or anergic?
Perika might work for you where other SJWs have failed if your depression is anergic. It's much more dopaminergic and stimulating than the other stuff from what I hear. Might be worth a try. I'm going to be starting it soon. Also, what have you done to augment the Prozac? Maybe you can find things to prevent the poop-out? I've heard of inositol helping with that (though what I read about that was completely anecdotal) as well as SAM-e (or preferably TMG). Have you tried augmenting with thyroid hormones, lithium or pindolol?What about selegiline - have you tried that separately or in combo with l-phenylalanine? There are also some great things that should be approved in the near future. If you've read the main board at all you probably know that many people are eagerly awaiting Cymbalta and the selegiline patch.
Prozac is serotonergic with some dopamine activity. If that works for you, maybe tianeptine would also. (You'd need to purchase that abroad if you live in the states but maybe your pdoc would be willing...)
There are still options and you're not alone. A lot of us here are in the same boat.
Kara
Posted by sjb on August 3, 2004, at 14:53:30
In reply to Re: other things to try, posted by KaraS on August 3, 2004, at 13:46:47
Thank you for your suggestions. I'm not sure I know what anergic means. I have atypical depression: lethargic, carbo/sweet cravings, oeversleeping, easily irritated, senstive (cry easily although Prozac helps with that). I also isolate and feel that nobody loves me. I know, boo, hoo, SOB! but's that the only way I can describe it. I get very paranoid and VERY down on myself.
However, I'm also an athlete. (My therapist would be more apt to call it obsessive-compulsive, but I've competed in marathons and beyond and was hoping to get back into competing. I run every day and go to the gym 4 times a week for weight training, but my weight is going up 'cause I can't stop eating like a pig!!!!) It's always like burning the candles at both ends.
I've printed out your post and will take it to my PDoc at my next appt. I have tried high doses of Inositol due to studies that showed it helped bulimics. I used the 12 grams, or whatever they recommended, and tried it for a long time with not much help. I've also tried TMG, SAM-e, lithium and phenylalanine. I have not tried Perika, selegiline or pindolol. I have had the complete thryoid test and all numbers are well within normal, not even close to being borderline.
Thanks again, Kara. You are a welcome addition to this board.
Posted by KaraS on August 3, 2004, at 15:31:21
In reply to Re: other things to try, posted by sjb on August 3, 2004, at 14:53:30
> Thank you for your suggestions. I'm not sure I know what anergic means. I have atypical depression: lethargic, carbo/sweet cravings, oeversleeping, easily irritated, senstive (cry easily although Prozac helps with that). I also isolate and feel that nobody loves me. I know, boo, hoo, SOB! but's that the only way I can describe it. I get very paranoid and VERY down on myself.
>Your symptoms are exactly what anergic means - low energy and low motivation etc. I think most of us here have the feeling that nobody loves us. Just try to keep in mind that feeling along with the paranoia and the lack of self-confidence are the depression - not the truth. (Easier said than done, I know.)
> However, I'm also an athlete. (My therapist would be more apt to call it obsessive-compulsive, but I've competed in marathons and beyond and was hoping to get back into competing. I run every day and go to the gym 4 times a week for weight training, but my weight is going up 'cause I can't stop eating like a pig!!!!) It's always like burning the candles at both ends.
>
Wow. Wish I could discipline myself to run everyday and do the weight training. That's great. Unfortunately, sometimes meds and/or depression can increase our appetites too much. There are other meds that decrease appetite (i.e. tryptophan or 5-htp -not good to mix with Prozac though-, selegiline).> I've printed out your post and will take it to my PDoc at my next appt. I have tried high doses of Inositol due to studies that showed it helped bulimics. I used the 12 grams, or whatever they recommended, and tried it for a long time with not much help. I've also tried TMG, SAM-e, lithium and phenylalanine. I have not tried Perika, selegiline or pindolol. I have had the complete thryoid test and all numbers are well within normal, not even close to being borderline.
>Pindolol is a beta blocker that's sometimes used to boost antidepressants. Selegiline (in case you don't know anything about it) is used to treat Parkinsons as well as touted as an antiaging drug because of it's saving effects on dopamine neurons). There's usually a lot about it on the main board and it's wonderful for anergic depressions like yours and mine. Many traditional pdocs don't prescribe it. It's an MAOI-B at doses above 10 or 15 mg so at higher doses you need to follow the diet. If you do a search on this board you can find some great posts by "Adam". After taking many meds that didn't work at all for him, he tried the selegiline patch in a drug trial situation and his whole life changed. It has been a miracle drug for him. Hopefully that will be out soon. Since it will be released as an antidepressant (not just a Parkinson's drug) the medical establishment will be much more likely to prescribe it. You might also want to read over on the main board about other things that people are trying or have tried for depressions like ours.
> Thanks again, Kara. You are a welcome addition to this board. >
Thanks. That's so nice to hear.
Good luck and keep me posted!Kara
Posted by sjb on August 4, 2004, at 9:31:07
In reply to Re: other things to try, posted by KaraS on August 3, 2004, at 15:31:21
Thanks for your prompt reply. I will ask about the patch, do we know when it will be available??? I also tried 5-HTP at various doses when I was not on Prozac. No help.
I will go back and read Adam's posts. I've just started to come back here again regulary, which is usually a sign that depression is getting worse again. . .sigh. . .
Posted by KaraS on August 4, 2004, at 15:30:50
In reply to Re: other things to try, posted by sjb on August 4, 2004, at 9:31:07
> Thanks for your prompt reply. I will ask about the patch, do we know when it will be available??? I also tried 5-HTP at various doses when I was not on Prozac. No help.
>
> I will go back and read Adam's posts. I've just started to come back here again regulary, which is usually a sign that depression is getting worse again. . .sigh. . .
Here's the post by Adam that you have to read. It's good advice but it's also incredibly inspirational - the kind of thing it's helpful to read periodically.http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20001115/msgs/48935.html
There's been a lot of chatter on the main board about the patch (ENSAM patch I believe it's called) and when it might be available. I don't think there's a definite date yet but you'll probably find that out by searching.
Cymbalta (a more balanced SSNRI), as I mentioned before, is also worth looking for but unfortunately the approval/release dates keep getting pushed back.
Myrapex has been getting some good words lately on the main board (don't know if I've mentioned that one yet.)
Have you tried Amisulpride? That is another one with lots of good word of mouth. (Look for AndrewB posts I believe but I could be wrong on that one.)
Good luck and keep me posted!
Kara
Posted by KaraS on August 4, 2004, at 16:34:01
In reply to Re: other things to try » sjb, posted by KaraS on August 4, 2004, at 15:30:50
Also, according to the main board today - Cymbalta has just been approved!!!! Check it out.
Posted by RichH on August 5, 2004, at 10:26:50
In reply to Re: other things to try, posted by KaraS on August 4, 2004, at 16:34:01
Hi - I've been reading the posts from the original thread on 'brain fog' and this reminded me of my suffering for many years. I was a successful athlete, until one day I began noticing a brain fog and debilitating fatigue deep within my system. This worsened and I tried every supplement known to man to cure it. I was reduced from an energetic UK hopeful to a vegetating cloth head... I know I'm not depressive, so it was hard to accept from my GP's that it was all psychological. After many years of suffering with trial and error supplementation I discovered that the multivits I take on a daily basis actually caused my mental fog and chronic fatigue. After reducing to low RDAs (~10% every other day or so, water soluble formulation) my mind cleared up probably 70%. To help recover now, I am taking rhodiola (reduces fybromyalgic symptoms & raises energy), plus occasional 5-htp (50mg, also reduces pain and gives you a slight mental boost) and obviously good diet plus fatty acids, good protein etc, with probiotics and colon cleansers. Not sure if this will help anyone but I was shocked to find my particular cause... if you take even 100% RDA strength on a daily basis think about going clean for a week & keep an eye on what happens! I also notice taking anything obsessiveley / daily doesn't feel good for the system... if you think how our diets evolved it's not likely we would pack so many nutrients consistently... but I'll admit I got obsessed with taking stuff and it was VERY hard to just stop taking something.
Posted by KaraS on August 5, 2004, at 12:22:32
In reply to Re: Brain Fog... other things to try, posted by RichH on August 5, 2004, at 10:26:50
> Hi - I've been reading the posts from the original thread on 'brain fog' and this reminded me of my suffering for many years. I was a successful athlete, until one day I began noticing a brain fog and debilitating fatigue deep within my system. This worsened and I tried every supplement known to man to cure it. I was reduced from an energetic UK hopeful to a vegetating cloth head... I know I'm not depressive, so it was hard to accept from my GP's that it was all psychological. After many years of suffering with trial and error supplementation I discovered that the multivits I take on a daily basis actually caused my mental fog and chronic fatigue. After reducing to low RDAs (~10% every other day or so, water soluble formulation) my mind cleared up probably 70%. To help recover now, I am taking rhodiola (reduces fybromyalgic symptoms & raises energy), plus occasional 5-htp (50mg, also reduces pain and gives you a slight mental boost) and obviously good diet plus fatty acids, good protein etc, with probiotics and colon cleansers. Not sure if this will help anyone but I was shocked to find my particular cause... if you take even 100% RDA strength on a daily basis think about going clean for a week & keep an eye on what happens! I also notice taking anything obsessiveley / daily doesn't feel good for the system... if you think how our diets evolved it's not likely we would pack so many nutrients consistently... but I'll admit I got obsessed with taking stuff and it was VERY hard to just stop taking something.
That's really interesting. What brand of multis did you take? Were you taking really excessive amounts? I have noticed the opposite. I have problems with viral type attacks and when I don't taken my vitamins, I get sick. I've never gone for a full week without them - just a few days.I just tried Rhodiola and am so disappointed that I'm not reacting well to it. It makes me feel a little tired, slightly headachey and it is very difficult to think straight. In fact, I've never felt like it was harder to focus than that. I may have some ADD (undiagnosed) so that may account for the atypical response. I'm wondering, though, if I continued to take it if those early symptoms would pass. Did you have any of those symptoms at first?
I'm glad you're doing better. Thanks for the feedback.
Kara
Posted by RichH on August 5, 2004, at 12:57:33
In reply to Re: Brain Fog... other things to try » RichH, posted by KaraS on August 5, 2004, at 12:22:32
Sorry to hear that - I'm using the Solgar brand Rhodiola 3x a day with plenty of water. The multivits.. I tried all sorts and not massive doses. I can actually feel the symptoms come on again when taken - this lasts 1-2 days. It's hard to know when you're taking so many things. I read your list and remembered how I was... but took the drastic measure of going clean to see what my natural state was. For example, on Prozac things became so confused I coundn't tell what I was doing, plus it made me ill with other neurochemical aids such as rhodiola. Have you every gone totally clean / detox? I had a detox for 2 weeks, then put on probiotics & enzymes to assist, then took Rhodiola to aid recovery. I don't need multivits any more. I have found Chi-Kung very helpful and get shiatsu or deep tissue massage regularly plus exercise. Somehow the fact I don't actually need anything anymore has provided me energy (to be self-sufficient) so in that sense there is a psychological bonus. From experience I'd go back to baseline and try simple things in isolation, else it just gets horribly complicated... Probably no help, but I believe you will find the answer!
Posted by KaraS on August 5, 2004, at 13:27:45
In reply to Re: Brain Fog... other things to try, posted by RichH on August 5, 2004, at 12:57:33
> Sorry to hear that - I'm using the Solgar brand Rhodiola 3x a day with plenty of water. The multivits.. I tried all sorts and not massive doses. I can actually feel the symptoms come on again when taken - this lasts 1-2 days. It's hard to know when you're taking so many things. I read your list and remembered how I was... but took the drastic measure of going clean to see what my natural state was. For example, on Prozac things became so confused I coundn't tell what I was doing, plus it made me ill with other neurochemical aids such as rhodiola. Have you every gone totally clean / detox? I had a detox for 2 weeks, then put on probiotics & enzymes to assist, then took Rhodiola to aid recovery. I don't need multivits any more. I have found Chi-Kung very helpful and get shiatsu or deep tissue massage regularly plus exercise. Somehow the fact I don't actually need anything anymore has provided me energy (to be self-sufficient) so in that sense there is a psychological bonus. From experience I'd go back to baseline and try simple things in isolation, else it just gets horribly complicated... Probably no help, but I believe you will find the answer!
I have gone a few days without vitamins and I really do get sick. My CFS symptoms come back. I don't think my situation is the same as yours. I'm on a very small amount of Effexor right now (about 19 mg.) but that's the only psychotropic med I'm taking. I may try the Rhodiola again when I'm not taking any Effexor (though Dr. Richard Brown often combines them for his patients).A good friend of mine is taking a Chi-Kung class and she said she'd teach me some things. Also she is studying to be a massage therapist and she wants to practice on me. I should probably take her up on it.
This is the end of the thread.
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