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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by zefdie on July 26, 2004, at 16:07:56
I'm currently on Effexor and can't stand the apathy and lack of motivation, so am suffering through the withdrawal symptoms with an eye toward trying some natural supplements. I would love to try Rhodiola but am wary of the estrogenic activity, as there is a history of breast cancer in my family. I have anergic depression and can't focus or pay attention to my work to save my life.
I've been looking around at various supplements and am interested in trying a multiple -- something with a B complex and amino acids as well as ginko or other herbs. I've noticed that a number of good companies, like Solgar and Source Naturals, make "brain enhancer" and "mood boost" formulas. Does anyone here have experience with any of these? Recommendations? I need something energizing. I'm somewhat wary of SJW because of the apathy I feel on SSRIs -- and I can't afford SAM-E.
Thanks!
Posted by zefdie on July 26, 2004, at 16:26:05
In reply to Recommendations for a good multiple supplement?, posted by zefdie on July 26, 2004, at 16:07:56
> I'm currently on Effexor and can't stand the apathy and lack of motivation, so am suffering through the withdrawal symptoms with an eye toward trying some natural supplements. I would love to try Rhodiola but am wary of the estrogenic activity, as there is a history of breast cancer in my family. I have anergic depression and can't focus or pay attention to my work to save my life.
>
> I've been looking around at various supplements and am interested in trying a multiple -- something with a B complex and amino acids as well as ginko or other herbs. I've noticed that a number of good companies, like Solgar and Source Naturals, make "brain enhancer" and "mood boost" formulas. Does anyone here have experience with any of these? Recommendations? I need something energizing. I'm somewhat wary of SJW because of the apathy I feel on SSRIs -- and I can't afford SAM-E.
>
> Thanks!I'm also taking Provigil, but who knows how long that will last: I'm on samples and it's unlikely that the insurance company will budge on their refusal to cover me. I have excessive, excessive, EXCESSIVE daytime sleepiness, lethargy, and apathy. I eat fish often and get flax in my system almost every day, but I'm not currently supplementing with fish oil. I was on Strattera until a few weeks ago -- quit becasuse of exhausting and a general wariness of the pharmaceutical convention happening in my veins.
Posted by chemist on July 26, 2004, at 17:12:08
In reply to Also..., posted by zefdie on July 26, 2004, at 16:26:05
hello there, chemist here....might i make a suggestion? i am not in the know about your queries, but if you start at the top of this page and work through it, you can get pretty much all the info you need in re: supplements and other add-ons of that nature. Larry Hoover, KaraS, SLS, and BarbaraCat are quite up-to-speed on this (and more!) and you might post a query directly for any or all of them. as for the prescription meds, i suggest you post on the psych-babble main board, or take a look at what has been posted that pertains to your meds. all in the interest of getting your queries to the right places. apologies for a non-answer, but i encourage you to condiser what i propose. additionally, on the meds board, posters Dinah and Racer seem to know a bit about provigil, and in addition to all 6 of these folks, look for Sad Panda and King Vultan (i wish to make it clear that i find that these 8 posters appear to regularly post in areas that you seek info, and that there are many, many other posters who are very well-informed, but this subset comes to mind to me in re: your post). as for effexor, you'll find a large crowd, and it works for some and not for others, from what i can tell....all the best, chemist
> > I'm currently on Effexor and can't stand the apathy and lack of motivation, so am suffering through the withdrawal symptoms with an eye toward trying some natural supplements. I would love to try Rhodiola but am wary of the estrogenic activity, as there is a history of breast cancer in my family. I have anergic depression and can't focus or pay attention to my work to save my life.
> >
> > I've been looking around at various supplements and am interested in trying a multiple -- something with a B complex and amino acids as well as ginko or other herbs. I've noticed that a number of good companies, like Solgar and Source Naturals, make "brain enhancer" and "mood boost" formulas. Does anyone here have experience with any of these? Recommendations? I need something energizing. I'm somewhat wary of SJW because of the apathy I feel on SSRIs -- and I can't afford SAM-E.
> >
> > Thanks!
>
> I'm also taking Provigil, but who knows how long that will last: I'm on samples and it's unlikely that the insurance company will budge on their refusal to cover me. I have excessive, excessive, EXCESSIVE daytime sleepiness, lethargy, and apathy. I eat fish often and get flax in my system almost every day, but I'm not currently supplementing with fish oil. I was on Strattera until a few weeks ago -- quit becasuse of exhausting and a general wariness of the pharmaceutical convention happening in my veins.
Posted by zefdie on July 26, 2004, at 18:06:15
In reply to Re: Also... » zefdie, posted by chemist on July 26, 2004, at 17:12:08
Thanks for your input. I just put the extra info about my current meds in to be thorough. I'm weaning off of Effexor and looking for information about good alternatives, especially supplements containing multiple nutrients (B complex and amino acids, for example).
Thanks!
Posted by simus on July 27, 2004, at 0:40:08
In reply to Re: Also... » zefdie, posted by chemist on July 26, 2004, at 17:12:08
Posted by chemist on July 27, 2004, at 8:25:11
In reply to Chemist... Missed you!!! (nm), posted by simus on July 27, 2004, at 0:40:08
....so YOU were the one! all the best, chemist
Posted by WAKI on July 28, 2004, at 12:40:57
In reply to Re: Chemist... Missed you!!! » simus, posted by chemist on July 27, 2004, at 8:25:11
Hello Chemist,
I need your opinion on this subject thread. I will copy it here for you to understand the question and answer given.
The question to you will be to evaluate why Strattera could make someone depressed even though it works with the NE.
Heres the original question from another post:
An 8 week trial of Strattera for ADHD induced melancholic symptoms which abated upon withdrawal of it. What could possible be the mechanism for this? She has dysthymia, ADHD, anxiety/social phobia, and Fibromyalgia with atypical features. Thoughts/conjectures?
Another person replied with this answer:
One of the few clues we had was that NE reuptake inhibitors were THERAPEUTIC for melancholic depression, so it's ironic that while non-selective NE reuptake inhibitors (output hardly seems to be amenable to conjecture yet.TCA's) have real efficacy for this disorder, selective ones like reboxetine and Strattera can worsen or induce such symptoms.
Chemist,
You explain things really well. Could you take a shot at this original question please?Thanks!
Posted by WAKI on July 28, 2004, at 14:18:18
In reply to Re: Also..., posted by zefdie on July 26, 2004, at 18:06:15
Listening to some of your meds you and I have certainly shared some of the same meds and effects.
After I tried Effexor and provigal I was really disgusted with feeling fatigued. At this point I was at near 3 years trying different meds and cocktails and bla bla bla.
My P-doc got me to try Wellbutrin XL, not the SR. It really helped me out and gave me my life back.
Fatigue and sadness is no longer a problem for me. My next objective is to solve my attention problem, insomnia and the speed feeling.
I get frustrated because I solve one problem and either gain another or dont solve another. Then when I try to solve the other I lose something else.
Anyway, fatigue was my largest problem in which i will deal with the rest at a slow pace.
Posted by chemist on July 28, 2004, at 15:36:15
In reply to Chemist, a question for you please....., posted by WAKI on July 28, 2004, at 12:40:57
hello there, chemist here...i am flattered by your comments. however, this is really outside my realm of providing an answer that will prove to be more insightful than those already in the thread. i do not have a perfect track-record - especially with SSRI/SNRI/etc. drugs - to say the least. i can offer a few words....first, i do know that lilly had originally targeted strattera as an anti-depressant, and that somewhere along the line, it became apparent that this drug would not make it through the pipeline as such. along the way - and keeping with themes in the pharmaceutical industry - lilly discovered (or perhaps determined, i do not know) that atomoxetine was useful in treating ADHD. this time, the drug was approved, and marketed as such. second, i have heard anecdotal evidence - among audience members at a talk by Keith Conners, he of the Conners' Adult ADHD Rating Scale (CAARS) [and i am not in any way implying that the speaker was involved in the sidebar in which i was: i am making a point that there were people in attendence who are specialists in this field, and i am not one of them] - that strattera is a more effective drug for ADHD in younger patients than in older (adult) ones. if this is true, and taken with the failure of the drug to alleviate depression, it would make some sense that it would at most keep one's depression at bay in the best case or fail, thus being ineffective in attenuating the downward spiral as the depression worsened. third, i do believe that you should readdress you question about the mechanistic aspects (and others, as you see fit) to the original posters who responded, as they are more qualified than i to elaborate on their (informed) original responses. finally, i apologize for the non-answer, but this is all i can offer, as any more speculation on my part would be unwarranted. in summary: i know the drug failed as an anti-depressant (this does not mean it is not effective for a subset of individuals, it failed to meet certain criteria); was reborn as an ADHD med and approved as such by the FDA; that some people in the field that i met very briefly felt that its efficacy was higher in treating ADHD in a younger population (this is an opinion from a small group of people attending a lecture, mind you); and that posters here on PB seem to be mixed in their response. again, i apologize for not being of much help, perhaps Rod and/or SLS can elaborate for you, as this med is not one that is on my radar. all the best, chemist
> Hello Chemist,
>
> I need your opinion on this subject thread. I will copy it here for you to understand the question and answer given.
>
> The question to you will be to evaluate why Strattera could make someone depressed even though it works with the NE.
>
> Heres the original question from another post:
>
> An 8 week trial of Strattera for ADHD induced melancholic symptoms which abated upon withdrawal of it. What could possible be the mechanism for this? She has dysthymia, ADHD, anxiety/social phobia, and Fibromyalgia with atypical features. Thoughts/conjectures?
>
> Another person replied with this answer:
>
> One of the few clues we had was that NE reuptake inhibitors were THERAPEUTIC for melancholic depression, so it's ironic that while non-selective NE reuptake inhibitors (output hardly seems to be amenable to conjecture yet.TCA's) have real efficacy for this disorder, selective ones like reboxetine and Strattera can worsen or induce such symptoms.
>
>
> Chemist,
> You explain things really well. Could you take a shot at this original question please?
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
>
>
>
Posted by jparsell82` on August 5, 2004, at 10:29:13
In reply to Recommendations for a good multiple supplement?, posted by zefdie on July 26, 2004, at 16:07:56
A good energizing herb is Rhodiola Rosea, I think it's a lot better than Ginseng(in my opinion). As far as supplements go TMG is a good alternative to Sam-E(much cheaper). Also amino acids like l-tyrosine or l-phenylalanine might help.
This is the end of the thread.
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