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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 12, 2004, at 17:11:38
In reply to Question for barbara-cat, posted by linkadge on July 12, 2004, at 16:10:51
Posted by linkadge on July 12, 2004, at 16:10:51
> You tried lithium and SJW together ?. I was thinking of trying this, how did it go. Did it help or were you finding it not so beneficial. How long were you on it.
>
>
> Linkadge
Posted by BarbaraCat on July 14, 2004, at 16:24:06
In reply to Question for barbara-cat « linkadge, posted by Dr. Bob on July 12, 2004, at 17:11:38
Hi,
Hope you get this with the redirect confusion. Yes, I'm still on SJW and lithium and am very happy with the combo. I'm taking HBC Protocols pharmaceutical grade SJW. www.hbcstore.com. Look under Products and then Anxiety. Typing St. John's Wort in the search box on the upper right displays some good research info.Being bipolar, however, St. John's Wort alone was not doing me any good. I recently went back on lithium and noticed a vast improvement since. Now, I've only been taking SJW for about 6 weeks so my response might have something to do with time, but what was happening was prior to restarting lithium I'd get a definite response, kind of like when a good SSRI finally kicks in. You know that feeling. But then it would fade, in and out, very shaky. I feel that lithium gave it stability and vice versa. I have also increased my thyroid med, since my recent TSH levels were high. The three together have had a major positive impact on my mood.
SJW has a very nice brightening effect, not at all wired like I've felt on every other SSRI. It hits S NE and D pathways and probably others. No one really knows what's going on. Very different from any other AD but very effective. Lithium is definitely important, however. I think there's a synergy going on, greater than the individual parts.
You do have to watch the brand, not all SJW is the same. The reason I like HBC Protocols is that it's standardized for 4% hyperforin as well as .3% hypericin and they use the Indena product, which was used in some positive research findings. I tried Perika and Kira, other pharmaceutical research brands, but this one I like the best and it's the least expensive. - Barbara
> > You tried lithium and SJW together ?. I was thinking of trying this, how did it go. Did it help or were you finding it not so beneficial. How long were you on it.
> >
> >
> > Linkadge
>
Posted by tabitha on July 15, 2004, at 0:28:03
In reply to Re: Question for barbara-cat » Dr. Bob, posted by BarbaraCat on July 14, 2004, at 16:24:06
Barbara, that's good info on the SJW, but could you say more about the lithium? Are you BPI or BPII? Do you have to get regular blood checks? Are the side effects tolerable?
I've had so much stomach trouble and dizziness from the anti-convulsant meds, I've never been able to stay on one long-term. I'm wondering if lithium might actually suit me better. I'm struggling along on just an AD, because I've had such bad luck with mood stabilizers. But I have the same experience with ADs as you describe with the SJW-- a good initial response, but spotty or fading out from then on.
Posted by BarbaraCat on July 15, 2004, at 1:22:29
In reply to Re: Question for barbara-cat » BarbaraCat, posted by tabitha on July 15, 2004, at 0:28:03
Hi Tabitha,
Be glad to say more on lithium. I'm BP-II, I think. The reason I'm not sure is that I get extremely severe mixed states depressions which have been psychotic at times, that is, very nightmarish bleak horrors. This is more in the realm of BP-I, but I have depression primarily, I respond to SSRI's as a BP-II would, and, other than a mixed state, I'll get little blips of hypomania rather than the typical severe BP-1 manias. But believe me, when it's bad, it's realllllllly bad. So, with that said, it's amazing that I'm only taking 600mg lithium carbonate and that it's working. My blood levels are always far below the 'therapeutic window'. I've don't get the uncomfortable side effects others speak of, probably because the dose is so low. I believe that I'm getting a good effect because I'm also taking an AD that works (SJW) and they potentiate each other. I got up to 900mg when I first started and had tremors but I understand they go away with time. The only downside is that my thyroid which has always been low has gotten worse on lithium and I have to watch this carefully and adjust my meds as necessary. I also have to drink alot of water because I pee more. I also use extra sea salt to replenish my sodium levels because of this.I used to get blood drawn once a month but now rarely do because 600mg has worked for me since I've been on it which is around 2 years. It's amazing the difference this med has made in my life. I'm acutely aware of the difference because I just went back on it after trying to do things naturally and cycling into irritability, rage and lethargic depression since stopping in January. I haven't had a bad mixed state for awhile, but it was just a matter of time.
Within 2 days of restarting it felt like I'd been meditating for a week, calm, centered, that awful feeling of dread and doom lifted. I think the St. John's and lithium together are the ticket because when I first started lithium it wasn't enough and I eventually went on Lamictal to combat the depression. Lamictal was OK for a while but then pooped and I ended up with the rash. Lam always made me feel internally agitated. SJW is a lovely AD. I was surprised because I tried it before and either didn't give it enough time or the brand wasn't the right one, but most likely because it didn't have my friend lithium to boost and smooth things.
Something else that has been helping alot is L-Taurine, which is an amino acid that's getting good press as a mood stabiliser for BP's. I figure it can only potentiate things. I prefer to do things as naturally as possible so as not to put a further burden on my body, but lithium is one med I won't go without again. And hey, lithium is even natural -- a mineral salt. AND this is pretty exciting, it's been getting a really good rap for 'neurogenesis', which means that it actually regenerates neurons and helps the brain's plasticity. Folks who aren't bipolar are taking it as a preventative against Alzheimer's and other age-related neuro decline disorders. Hope this helps and feel free to ask again with any further questions. - Barbara
> Barbara, that's good info on the SJW, but could you say more about the lithium? Are you BPI or BPII? Do you have to get regular blood checks? Are the side effects tolerable?
>
> I've had so much stomach trouble and dizziness from the anti-convulsant meds, I've never been able to stay on one long-term. I'm wondering if lithium might actually suit me better. I'm struggling along on just an AD, because I've had such bad luck with mood stabilizers. But I have the same experience with ADs as you describe with the SJW-- a good initial response, but spotty or fading out from then on.
Posted by tabitha on July 15, 2004, at 13:48:53
In reply to Re: Question for barbara-cat » tabitha, posted by BarbaraCat on July 15, 2004, at 1:22:29
Thanks for the info. I think I'll ask my pdoc about trying lithium.
Posted by BarbaraCat on July 15, 2004, at 13:59:44
In reply to Re: Question for barbara-cat » BarbaraCat, posted by tabitha on July 15, 2004, at 13:48:53
One thing I didn't mention about side effects is that Lith can cause weight gain. You really have to commit to working out and being more active. Perhaps that's the secret of lithium. It's really the exercise the does all the magic. Lithium just provides the incentive for doing it.
> Thanks for the info. I think I'll ask my pdoc about trying lithium.
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