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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Glydin on July 14, 2004, at 6:52:17
Has anyone noticed a greater susceptability to skin breakouts when taking Fish Oil?
Is iodine found in Fish Oil suppliments? It's not listed, but that has been a source of skin eruptions for me in the past.
I'm trying to figue if there is a relationship or just an upsetting coincidence.
Thoughts or findings would be appreciated.
Posted by Larry Hoover on July 14, 2004, at 10:19:49
In reply to Fish Oil use and skin breakouts?, posted by Glydin on July 14, 2004, at 6:52:17
> Has anyone noticed a greater susceptability to skin breakouts when taking Fish Oil?
Sometimes, maybe.
> Is iodine found in Fish Oil suppliments? It's not listed, but that has been a source of skin eruptions for me in the past.
There are no ions of any sort to consider. No minerals, no salts. Certainly no iodine.
> I'm trying to figue if there is a relationship or just an upsetting coincidence.
>
> Thoughts or findings would be appreciated.Summer heat makes me break out, too. It's possible your body might take a little while to adapt to the change in the fatty acid balance in your blood. It should sort itself out soon.
Lar
Posted by KaraS on July 14, 2004, at 12:35:57
In reply to Fish Oil use and skin breakouts?, posted by Glydin on July 14, 2004, at 6:52:17
> Has anyone noticed a greater susceptability to skin breakouts when taking Fish Oil?
>
> Is iodine found in Fish Oil suppliments? It's not listed, but that has been a source of skin eruptions for me in the past.
>
> I'm trying to figue if there is a relationship or just an upsetting coincidence.
>
> Thoughts or findings would be appreciated.
YES!!! I thought I was the only one. I also had the problem when I substituted flax seed oil. I'm not sure that I actually have more breakouts, but the eruptions I do get are more cyst like. They're under the surface so they don't look horrible but they hurt. I take a minimal amount of fish oil because of this even though I probably need a lot more.
Posted by Glydin on July 14, 2004, at 12:57:15
In reply to Re: Fish Oil use and skin breakouts?, posted by KaraS on July 14, 2004, at 12:35:57
>
> YES!!! I thought I was the only one. I also had the problem when I substituted flax seed oil. I'm not sure that I actually have more breakouts, but the eruptions I do get are more cyst like. They're under the surface so they don't look horrible but they hurt.~~~That's my experience, too. I really noticed it when I took a break from taking the FO for several weeks (not intentional, just happened) and restarted. Within several days, I developed a breakout problem and they were the cyst type as you described. I hope it's just a restart thing, as Larry predicted. The bite of those cyst type eruptions is surface treating them is an exercise in futility.
Posted by KaraS on July 14, 2004, at 15:28:55
In reply to Re: Fish Oil use and skin breakouts?, posted by Glydin on July 14, 2004, at 12:57:15
> >
> > YES!!! I thought I was the only one. I also had the problem when I substituted flax seed oil. I'm not sure that I actually have more breakouts, but the eruptions I do get are more cyst like. They're under the surface so they don't look horrible but they hurt.
>
> ~~~That's my experience, too. I really noticed it when I took a break from taking the FO for several weeks (not intentional, just happened) and restarted. Within several days, I developed a breakout problem and they were the cyst type as you described. I hope it's just a restart thing, as Larry predicted. The bite of those cyst type eruptions is surface treating them is an exercise in futility.
>
>
>I've started and stopped fish oil and flax seed oil over a period of years and each time I get that reaction. I haven't stayed with it long enough to get beyond that side effect. I feel like a freak when it happens. At one point it got really bad and then it was really noticable. It looked so bizarre. A couple of weeks ago I started on Natural Factors (RxOmega-3 Factors - that's Dr. Michael Murray's brand which is supposed to be very pure) and so far so good. I'm only taking one a day though and the recommended dose on the label is 1-3 a day and one probably should take more than that. I've been afraid to increase though. I'm pretty sure that if I do I'll get the problem back ... but maybe I'll get brave and try it anyway.
Let me know if yours does go away. In that case I'll try to increase and then stick with it a while.
Posted by Larry Hoover on July 14, 2004, at 18:05:53
In reply to Re: Fish Oil use and skin breakouts?, posted by KaraS on July 14, 2004, at 15:28:55
Have either of you tried taking a GLA supplement with the fish oil? (Evening primrose, borage, or black currant are probably the best ones.) I'm going to try and figure this out.
Lar
Posted by Kacy on July 14, 2004, at 19:27:44
In reply to Re: skin breakouts, Kara and Glydin, posted by Larry Hoover on July 14, 2004, at 18:05:53
…by far.
I stopped and started taking fish oil twice. Then I took it a month straight, two to three capsules a day. By the end of the month, I could only figure that the worst breakout I’d had in many years had to be caused by the fish oil. It took weeks to get over. I tried it one more time to test it; this time I broke out by the second day. I took it two more days to be sure, and was sorry I did. Those two days complicated the breakout. It seems the more times I took it, the faster my breakout response.
I fight skin problems, anyway, but short of getting something greasy on my face–nothing compares with fish oil. I used Carlson’s and one other brand that I got from the same store and that was recommended.
Since you had the same problem, if you take two or three capsules a day of that new brand successfully, please post back to tell us. I would try it again because it seems to help a lot of people.
Posted by KaraS on July 14, 2004, at 19:58:35
In reply to Re: skin breakouts, Kara and Glydin, posted by Larry Hoover on July 14, 2004, at 18:05:53
> Have either of you tried taking a GLA supplement with the fish oil? (Evening primrose, borage, or black currant are probably the best ones.) I'm going to try and figure this out.
>
> LarYes, I've always taken GLA with it - varrying between the three you mentioned.
-K
Posted by KaraS on July 14, 2004, at 20:09:32
In reply to Worse than any other breakout…, posted by Kacy on July 14, 2004, at 19:27:44
> …by far.
>
> I stopped and started taking fish oil twice. Then I took it a month straight, two to three capsules a day. By the end of the month, I could only figure that the worst breakout I’d had in many years had to be caused by the fish oil. It took weeks to get over. I tried it one more time to test it; this time I broke out by the second day. I took it two more days to be sure, and was sorry I did. Those two days complicated the breakout. It seems the more times I took it, the faster my breakout response.
>
> I fight skin problems, anyway, but short of getting something greasy on my face–nothing compares with fish oil. I used Carlson’s and one other brand that I got from the same store and that was recommended.
>
> Since you had the same problem, if you take two or three capsules a day of that new brand successfully, please post back to tell us. I would try it again because it seems to help a lot of people.
Did you also have the cystic variety of breakouts? (I'm in my 40's already so I just don't get acne like that but the fish oil reaction was something else!) All I can figure is that there's some major immune response going on. It's SO GOOD to know that there are other people who have had the same reaction. If I ever get the nerve to increase the fish oil dosage I'm taking now, I'll let you know how i fare. I don't have much hope though. Since I reacted the same way to the flax seed oil, I'm thinking it probably isn't a purity issue (in which case I don't see how brand could matter).Maybe Larry can figure it all out.
Posted by sb417 on July 14, 2004, at 20:38:01
In reply to Re: Worse than any other breakout…, posted by KaraS on July 14, 2004, at 20:09:32
I find that fish oil actually makes my skin look better. What brand of fish oil do you take? Are there any fillers or additives that could be causing the acne? The medicine that gave me the worst breakouts was Wellbutrin. I'm convinced that Wellbutrin is androgenic. Perhaps increased androgen production from Wellbutrin caused the acne as well as the increased sex drive!
Posted by Glydin on July 14, 2004, at 20:48:27
In reply to Re: Worse than any other breakout…, posted by sb417 on July 14, 2004, at 20:38:01
Generally always together.
Posted by KaraS on July 14, 2004, at 22:59:14
In reply to Re: Worse than any other breakout…, posted by sb417 on July 14, 2004, at 20:38:01
> I find that fish oil actually makes my skin look better. What brand of fish oil do you take? Are there any fillers or additives that could be causing the acne? The medicine that gave me the worst breakouts was Wellbutrin. I'm convinced that Wellbutrin is androgenic. Perhaps increased androgen production from Wellbutrin caused the acne as well as the increased sex drive!
I've tried a few different kinds as well as flax seed oil. I doubt it's the brand.
Posted by Larry Hoover on July 15, 2004, at 8:51:55
In reply to Re: Worse than any other breakout…, posted by KaraS on July 14, 2004, at 20:09:32
> > …by far.
> >
> > I stopped and started taking fish oil twice. Then I took it a month straight, two to three capsules a day. By the end of the month, I could only figure that the worst breakout I’d had in many years had to be caused by the fish oil. It took weeks to get over. I tried it one more time to test it; this time I broke out by the second day. I took it two more days to be sure, and was sorry I did. Those two days complicated the breakout. It seems the more times I took it, the faster my breakout response.
> >
> > I fight skin problems, anyway, but short of getting something greasy on my face–nothing compares with fish oil. I used Carlson’s and one other brand that I got from the same store and that was recommended.
> >
> > Since you had the same problem, if you take two or three capsules a day of that new brand successfully, please post back to tell us. I would try it again because it seems to help a lot of people.
>
>
> Did you also have the cystic variety of breakouts? (I'm in my 40's already so I just don't get acne like that but the fish oil reaction was something else!) All I can figure is that there's some major immune response going on. It's SO GOOD to know that there are other people who have had the same reaction. If I ever get the nerve to increase the fish oil dosage I'm taking now, I'll let you know how i fare. I don't have much hope though. Since I reacted the same way to the flax seed oil, I'm thinking it probably isn't a purity issue (in which case I don't see how brand could matter).
>
> Maybe Larry can figure it all out.Maybe. I'll try. I was trying to copy a segment of text from the following link, but Adobe isn't letting me text-select for some reason. On page 2, there's a letter from Dr. Logan which contains an interesting passage about changes in sebaceous glands.
http://www.thepaleodiet.com/articles/Acne%20Final%20Letter%202.pdf
In that same paragraph, at the top, is a tangential reference to antioxidant intake. I'm thinking that may be the key. Have either of you taken high doses of vitamin E with the omega-3 fatty acids? 1600 IU...something like that?
If you can't tolerate e.g. three grams a day (flax and/or fish oil), but 1 gram seems okay, I urge you to take what you can. Maybe your body will find a new homeostasis at that intake level, and then you can try raising the intake by another gram.
Everything I read says omega-3 fatty acids ought to improve skin condition, including acne. The polyunsaturated fatty acids, both omega-6 and omega-3, undergo hundreds of transformations by a host of enzymes, yielding a great variety of pro-inflammatory and anti-inflammatory molecules (e.g prostaglandins), signalling substances (e.g. leukotrienes, interleukins), growth factors, and so on. Maybe you guys have a problem with one or more of those enzymes. Genetic differences like that are not at all uncommon, and this one (if it exists) isn't life-threatening.
I'll keep thinking about it.
Lar
Posted by KaraS on July 15, 2004, at 16:02:17
In reply to Re: Worse than any other breakout… » KaraS, posted by Larry Hoover on July 15, 2004, at 8:51:55
> > > …by far.
> > >
> > > I stopped and started taking fish oil twice. Then I took it a month straight, two to three capsules a day. By the end of the month, I could only figure that the worst breakout I’d had in many years had to be caused by the fish oil. It took weeks to get over. I tried it one more time to test it; this time I broke out by the second day. I took it two more days to be sure, and was sorry I did. Those two days complicated the breakout. It seems the more times I took it, the faster my breakout response.
> > >
> > > I fight skin problems, anyway, but short of getting something greasy on my face–nothing compares with fish oil. I used Carlson’s and one other brand that I got from the same store and that was recommended.
> > >
> > > Since you had the same problem, if you take two or three capsules a day of that new brand successfully, please post back to tell us. I would try it again because it seems to help a lot of people.
> >
> >
> > Did you also have the cystic variety of breakouts? (I'm in my 40's already so I just don't get acne like that but the fish oil reaction was something else!) All I can figure is that there's some major immune response going on. It's SO GOOD to know that there are other people who have had the same reaction. If I ever get the nerve to increase the fish oil dosage I'm taking now, I'll let you know how i fare. I don't have much hope though. Since I reacted the same way to the flax seed oil, I'm thinking it probably isn't a purity issue (in which case I don't see how brand could matter).
> >
> > Maybe Larry can figure it all out.
>
> Maybe. I'll try. I was trying to copy a segment of text from the following link, but Adobe isn't letting me text-select for some reason. On page 2, there's a letter from Dr. Logan which contains an interesting passage about changes in sebaceous glands.
>
> http://www.thepaleodiet.com/articles/Acne%20Final%20Letter%202.pdf
>
> In that same paragraph, at the top, is a tangential reference to antioxidant intake. I'm thinking that may be the key. Have either of you taken high doses of vitamin E with the omega-3 fatty acids? 1600 IU...something like that?
>My brain isn't processing well yet. I'll have to return to the article later. But I've taken 400 IU and possibly 800 IU of vitamin E with it. (Don't remember if I tried the fish oil once I had increased to 800.)
> If you can't tolerate e.g. three grams a day (flax and/or fish oil), but 1 gram seems okay, I urge you to take what you can. Maybe your body will find a new homeostasis at that intake level, and then you can try raising the intake by another gram.
All that I'm taking now is EPA 400 mg./DHA 200 mg. - enough so that I feel I'm not terribly deficient but not enough so that I could get some wonderful response.>
> Everything I read says omega-3 fatty acids ought to improve skin condition, including acne. The polyunsaturated fatty acids, both omega-6 and omega-3, undergo hundreds of transformations by a host of enzymes, yielding a great variety of pro-inflammatory and anti-inflammatory molecules (e.g prostaglandins), signalling substances (e.g. leukotrienes, interleukins), growth factors, and so on. Maybe you guys have a problem with one or more of those enzymes. Genetic differences like that are not at all uncommon, and this one (if it exists) isn't life-threatening.
>That's the frustrating part - the fact that everything says that this should be good for your skin and yet you know what you're experiencing. An enzyme problem is a possibility. One other thing I can add that might help to solve the mystery is that the sebum itself changes consistency when I'm taking fish oil. It becomes much more solid - not the usual liquid consistency. When the cysts form, there's a large hard solid mass underneath the skin and then there's inflamation around that (as if the mass had formed and then the body attacked it - but I could be misinterpreting it).
> I'll keep thinking about it.
>
> Lar
>OK, thanks.
K
Posted by Larry Hoover on July 16, 2004, at 10:27:27
In reply to Re: Worse than any other breakout…, posted by KaraS on July 15, 2004, at 16:02:17
> All that I'm taking now is EPA 400 mg./DHA 200 mg. - enough so that I feel I'm not terribly deficient but not enough so that I could get some wonderful response.
That's more than most people get. Don't forget, eating the source fish is sometimes something that people tolerate much better than the extracted oils. A single tin of canned salmon has roughly one gram of EPA and DHA, combined.
>
>
>
> >
> > Everything I read says omega-3 fatty acids ought to improve skin condition, including acne. The polyunsaturated fatty acids, both omega-6 and omega-3, undergo hundreds of transformations by a host of enzymes, yielding a great variety of pro-inflammatory and anti-inflammatory molecules (e.g prostaglandins), signalling substances (e.g. leukotrienes, interleukins), growth factors, and so on. Maybe you guys have a problem with one or more of those enzymes. Genetic differences like that are not at all uncommon, and this one (if it exists) isn't life-threatening.
> >
>
> That's the frustrating part - the fact that everything says that this should be good for your skin and yet you know what you're experiencing. An enzyme problem is a possibility. One other thing I can add that might help to solve the mystery is that the sebum itself changes consistency when I'm taking fish oil. It becomes much more solid - not the usual liquid consistency. When the cysts form, there's a large hard solid mass underneath the skin and then there's inflamation around that (as if the mass had formed and then the body attacked it - but I could be misinterpreting it).That might be the missing clue. Flaxseed oil goes by another name....linseed oil. When it oxidizes, it cross-links, and you get.....varnish. Fish oil, under the appropriate conditions, will also cross-link and harden.
So, are you otherwise restricting fat intake? In other words, is the fish oil itself, proportionately, a significant source of fat in your diet?
> OK, thanks.
> KStill thinking, eh?
Lar
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