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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Tooooja on July 9, 2004, at 4:30:18
Hi everyone,
I've been wrestling with feelings of depression for the last ten years, and I tried a lot of things during this time, non of which helped very much.
Recently I embarked on fitness regime, as I had been reading a lot about the benefits of exercise to the way you feel. It has been helping. with my renewed interest in fitness I spent some time reading bodybuilding websites and heard about whey protein as a very good source of protein for building muscles. I decided to get some, and I noticed the very first time I took it about an hour after drinking it down that a felt a LOT calmer, more centred, relaxed and even a little jovial. Of all the experiences I've had with different meds and supplements, this is the one thing that stands out as the thing that has really helped. Once I was sure that it was the whey that was having this effect, I thought I'd cracked it at last, problems solved, supplement with a little whey each day. This is what I was doing, I took it every day for about a month, and I was training regularly and eating my normal diet too. After the month I started to come down with a cold, slightly unusual because it is summer at the moment and I always keep myself warm. I kept on taking the whey and my cold got worse, and I ended up with a very sore throat, sneezing all the time, and I noticed the skin on my feet started drying and cracking and my hands began doing the same. So sensibly I stopped the whey, for a week, and started to get better. My sore throat went and my cold got a lot better. I decided to try the whey again just to see if it was really that, after two days of supplementing my sore throat was back. What I am wondering is, has anyone else out there had any experience with whey, anything like this happened to them, and is there any way around it?? I have scoured the web to try and find more info. I did find some about whey helping depression on the Life Extension Foundation website and various other places, and they made no mention of the effects I experienced. They attribute the anti-depressant effect to the alpha-lactalbumin fraction of the whey which has a high l-tryptophan content. They also say it's good for your immune system because it is high in Glutamine, it seemed to weaken my immune system though!? Please feel free to respond and ask me more questions if you like.
Posted by Larry Hoover on July 10, 2004, at 8:10:36
In reply to Whey Protein Treating Depression, posted by Tooooja on July 9, 2004, at 4:30:18
> Hi everyone,
>
> I've been wrestling with feelings of depression for the last ten years, and I tried a lot of things during this time, non of which helped very much.
>
> Recently I embarked on fitness regime, as I had been reading a lot about the benefits of exercise to the way you feel. It has been helping. with my renewed interest in fitness I spent some time reading bodybuilding websites and heard about whey protein as a very good source of protein for building muscles. I decided to get some, and I noticed the very first time I took it about an hour after drinking it down that a felt a LOT calmer, more centred, relaxed and even a little jovial. Of all the experiences I've had with different meds and supplements, this is the one thing that stands out as the thing that has really helped. Once I was sure that it was the whey that was having this effect, I thought I'd cracked it at last, problems solved, supplement with a little whey each day. This is what I was doing, I took it every day for about a month, and I was training regularly and eating my normal diet too. After the month I started to come down with a cold, slightly unusual because it is summer at the moment and I always keep myself warm. I kept on taking the whey and my cold got worse, and I ended up with a very sore throat, sneezing all the time, and I noticed the skin on my feet started drying and cracking and my hands began doing the same.That sounds like an allergic reaction. There is whey protein and there is whey protein. Some are fully hydrolysed, and others contain many of the original proteins in the whey. You may have started to sensitize to an undigested protein in the whey powder. You might want to switch brands, and look especially for the word "hydrolysed" somewhere on the label.
You may also be able to keep taking the same brand if you also take some bromelain at the same time. Papaya enzyme might work, too.
> So sensibly I stopped the whey, for a week, and started to get better. My sore throat went and my cold got a lot better. I decided to try the whey again just to see if it was really that, after two days of supplementing my sore throat was back. What I am wondering is, has anyone else out there had any experience with whey, anything like this happened to them, and is there any way around it??
Your challenge/rechallenge process is a good one, as it tends to isolate the effect to the whey protein. If it is a true allergic response, only avoiding the triggering protein will prevent a recurrence. Alternatively, you may have triggered an upregulation in histamine formation, and I'd have to look into that before I could comment more fully.
> I have scoured the web to try and find more info. I did find some about whey helping depression on the Life Extension Foundation website and various other places, and they made no mention of the effects I experienced. They attribute the anti-depressant effect to the alpha-lactalbumin fraction of the whey which has a high l-tryptophan content.
Whey protein also has a good amount of cysteine. There are multiple benefits. Increased intake of l-tryptophan from a source which also includes other aminos does not necessarily increase brain uptake. You also have to induce an insulin release (via high-glycemic carbs), which drives the tryptophan into the brain.
> They also say it's good for your immune system because it is high in Glutamine, it seemed to weaken my immune system though!?
Your immune system appears to have become hyper-reactive, rather than unreactive. If the nasal secretions were watery, rather than opaque or coloured, that is over-stimulation of immune response. The sore throat is post-nasal drip.
> Please feel free to respond and ask me more questions if you like.
Ask me more question if you like.
Lar
Posted by Tooooja on July 11, 2004, at 5:37:44
In reply to Re: Whey Protein Treating Depression » Tooooja, posted by Larry Hoover on July 10, 2004, at 8:10:36
Hi, thanks for your reply Larry.
With regards to the Whey protein I've been taking; I started off on a brand produced by a bodybuilding company, and it was a mixed whey with some hydrolised and some ion exchanged, they touted it as denatured and high Biological Value. This is what I was using when I first began with the cold symptoms, it also contained some malto dextrose and other ingredients to increase it's anabolic potential. With all the other ingredients in the supplement I suspected that it may be one of these that I was having an adverse reaction to. So I changed brand and bought a pure whey protein with no other ingredients, no flavouring, nothing. It is a cross and ultra filtered whey and supposedly the purest available. Alas with this I also had the same result; sore throat and sneezing. I don't think that I have an allergy to dairy though, when I was a kid growing up, I used to drink milk by the bucketload, I'd sometimes drink two pints or more in a day, and I never had an allergic reaction. I think you may be right about the histamine levels, I've just read that whey protein contains histadine, and this is used to make histamine in the body. My main symptom is sneezing, with the sore throat, and when I persisted with the whey despite the sneezing I also started to get red-ish patches appearing on my cheeks. What do you think's the best thing to do next?? I'm not going to take the whey when it's making me sneeze all the time. I've ordered some l-tryptophan, which I plan to try and hope that it works like the whey and will avoid the histamine problem. If my histamine levels are elevated, will they naturally return to normal levels if I avoid the histadine containing foods that caused them to rise??
Thanks again for your input, really appreciate it :)
Toooja.....
Posted by KaraS on July 11, 2004, at 15:27:24
In reply to Re: Whey Protein Treating Depression, posted by Tooooja on July 11, 2004, at 5:37:44
Is there something special about whey protein powder that soy, rice, or hemp protein wouldn't also provide?
Posted by Larry Hoover on July 12, 2004, at 11:31:23
In reply to Re: Whey Protein Treating Depression, posted by KaraS on July 11, 2004, at 15:27:24
> Is there something special about whey protein powder that soy, rice, or hemp protein wouldn't also provide?
The proportions of amino acids in the whole substances differ, and in cheese production, the removal of the curds changes the relative concentrations of what is left. If you compare labels on e.g. soya protein and whey protein, you'll see the proportions of the aminos differ somewhat. If the dairy source aspect is of concern, then I think soya is next best. I don't think there's any cysteine in soya protein, if I recall correctly.
Lar
Posted by mistermindmasta on July 13, 2004, at 23:26:57
In reply to Whey Protein Treating Depression, posted by Tooooja on July 9, 2004, at 4:30:18
Hi, I have tried whey protein and I noticed the same effects you describe. To be honest though, if I eat a meal that is very high in protein and very low in carbs I tend to feel the same way as I do w/ whey, regardless of where the protein comes from except whey seems to make me calmer. Maybe this is the higher Tryp content? I thrive in high protein diets, so the whey protein would theoretically be a nice little supplement to my diet... EXCEPT...
Unfortunately, I am allergic to dairy. While I was convinced at one point that most of my allergic reaction was towards the casein protein, I still have noticably increased fatigue (long term, not acute) from whey usage. I suspect I might be allergic in many ways to the many proteins in dairy.
So yes, to clarify that, I do feel good acutely, but with more fatigue in the long term. So, I don't feel its a good thing to use on a daily basis for me.
I'd just as well substitute a large steak and feel the same.
Posted by joebob on July 14, 2004, at 11:13:00
In reply to Re: Whey Protein Treating Depression » KaraS, posted by Larry Hoover on July 12, 2004, at 11:31:23
immunoglobulins
we use rice protein for our kid, no dairy for him, but i do give him some colostrum occasionally and some culturelle for his bowels
best
joebob
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