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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by NoMotic on November 25, 2003, at 21:36:38
This is something that has boggled my mind for at least a year since the first time I tried 5-HTP. If I'm feeling stressed out, say because I had too much caffeine + too little sleep, I will take 200mg or 300mg of 5-HTP and literally feel EXTREMELY GOOD, EXTREMELY HAPPY, not stressed out AT ALL, etc. Does this make any sense??? Isn't depression supposed to be like a disease or something??? You know what I mean - like how do I feel so incredible better in such a short period of time rather than over a course of weeks? I always thought that it made sense that when I messed with my body too much, it would simply take a few days of good sleep and less caffeine to feel better. Instead, I artificially raise serotonin and feel better immediately. This directly contradicts evidence that says antidepressants take weeks to work. The increased serotonin instantly makes me feel better.
Also, as a note, there is no chance that this is a placebo effect. I cannot get myself to feel this way with any other supplement. I get such a strong feeling a well being, its incredible every time I use the supplement. It's like wamr relaxed feeling deep inside me. It increases my desire to socialize. Let me tell you, it's been a lifesaver sometimes (no, not literally!). There have been times when I got in arguements with my girlfriend and 5-HTP helped me make logical choices about what do - I went from feeling totally not good at all to totally good!
I also note that 5-HTP has a very strong motivating effect. It helps me "want" to do things that I don't normally want to do. Again, this happens with acute doses of 5-HTP. Sometimes I get sort of anti-social and don't want to be around people. 5-HTP reverses this within a half hour to hour.
If anyone has any idea of why acutely raising my serotonin makes me feel so good, let me know. As far as I understood, acute increases DA and NE (cocaine, ritalin) would make one feel good, but not acute 5-HT. I always thought serotonin would have to be raised for weeks to have any effect. Once again, for me, its instant. The only thing I can think of, is that I don't really have any depressive like illness, but rather I just have low serotonin at times, and my symptoms occur when my serotonin is too low. Once again, though, this contradicts studies that show that acute tryptophan depletion does not cause depressive symptoms. I've heard those studies were flawed, so who knows. Regardless, my point is that acutely raising serotonin is key for my mental health. My other idea is that it has to do with serotonin depletion specifically in the prefrontal cortex, rather than other brain regions. I suspect that the increased serotonin in the PFC may serve to buffer input from the Amygdala, thus allowing me to approach life more logically than emotionally, and with significantly less stress. Maybe the serotonin imbalance in truly "depressed" people is a global serotonin loss, and only by globally increasing serotonin for weeks does a truly depressed person experience effects. Once again, though, I can't be sure. This doesn't make sense!!!! I always find ways to confuse myself after I think I've figured something important out.
Whoever has an idea, fill me in.
Posted by Robert Fairburn on November 26, 2003, at 3:59:40
In reply to Why does 5-HTP have immediate positive effect 4 me, posted by NoMotic on November 25, 2003, at 21:36:38
I seen studies that show trytrophan depletion does cause depression.
Regards RobertPS if 5-htp is working for you, be happy :)
Posted by NoMotic on November 26, 2003, at 5:42:47
In reply to Re: Why does 5-HTP have immediate positive effect 4 me, posted by Robert Fairburn on November 26, 2003, at 3:59:40
Yes, I am happy! Actually, I'm now using my two miracle supplements - 5-HTP AND Kava as well, and I feel great. I am using both in the upper dose range - like 300 mg 5-HTP / day and something like 300mg Kavalactones / day. I could get a specific number, if anyone cares. The only sucky thing is that I'll have to stop Kava after a certain number of days of use for fear of liver toxicity. I've been going on it for 7-10 days, then off it for 2 weeks to a month. This works out well and seems to give me little problems. I also use well known brands. New Chapter's brand seems to be especially beneficial, as it also has ginger which has several benefits on its own. It's a shame there's so much concern with Kava - as I understand, Ibuprofen has caused many many more deaths, yet this still exists on the market. It's just odd to me how these types of situations w/ herbs work. I only can imagine how much people lives benefit from Kava as compared to Ibuprofen. Probably more people benefit in a better way - nothing's more important than having your mental health in order! I am firm in the belief that the pharmaceutical companies would LOVE to have Kava off the shelves... same with St. John's Wort or Valerian... They try to make these supplements look bad at every chance they get (for example, one of the recent st. john's study that failed and everyone therefore thought st. john's doesnt work). I just hope the US has the brains to put advanced warning labels on kava rather than completely taking it off the shelves, end of story. It's so great for me, and compliments 5-HTP perfectly.
Posted by SLS on November 26, 2003, at 6:59:47
In reply to Re: Why does 5-HTP have immediate positive effect 4 me, posted by Robert Fairburn on November 26, 2003, at 3:59:40
> I seen studies that show trytrophan depletion does cause depression.
Perhaps not. However, tryptophan depletion can cause someone who depends on antidepressants to relapse.
- Scott
Posted by Darwin on November 26, 2003, at 20:18:39
In reply to Why does 5-HTP have immediate positive effect 4 me, posted by NoMotic on November 25, 2003, at 21:36:38
It may not be the increased serotonin which is making you feel good. I seem to recall reading that 5-HTP also has a direct stimulatory effect on Dopamine receptors. Unfortunately, this effect fades with time.
Darwin
Posted by Darwin on November 26, 2003, at 20:45:57
In reply to I Prefer the Old Method. How May We Restore It?, posted by Darwin on November 26, 2003, at 20:18:39
Sorry, the previous non-sensical subject heading was inadvertently carried over from a post I made long ago.
Robert
> It may not be the increased serotonin which is making you feel good. I seem to recall reading that 5-HTP also has a direct stimulatory effect on Dopamine receptors. Unfortunately, this effect fades with time.
>
> Darwin
Posted by NoMotic on November 27, 2003, at 11:26:34
In reply to Please ignore the previous subject heading » Darwin, posted by Darwin on November 26, 2003, at 20:45:57
>> > It may not be the increased serotonin which is making you feel good. I seem to recall reading that 5-HTP also has a direct stimulatory effect on Dopamine receptors. Unfortunately, this effect fades with time.
> >
> > Darwin
Yeah, I've read that it can displace Dopamine from receptors and act as an antagonist or agonist or something? That's quite odd, in my opinion. I don't know if that would mean serotonin itself or 5-HTP actually acting as a neurotransmitter. The latter I've never heard of. But I suppose it could theoretically increase DA via one of the serotonin subtypes, like through the 1a or 3c receptors, which as I recall release Dopamine through increases in serotonin. But then, this increase in dopamine might be equally met with a decrease in dopamine through increases at the 2a receptor. Antagonizing the 2a receptor leads to increases in working memory capacity and as I remember, increases in NE and DA in the Prefrontal Cortex. I most certainly notice a bit of a negative effect on my working memory capacity - sometimes I feel dumber, but Kava addition seems to nicely fix this. I don't suppose it to be not possible for me obtain a pleasurable mind state simply from DA release in other areas of the brain due to the 1a or 2c increased Serotonin. I bet, just based on the results I've had with 5-HTP and Kava, that I might do well with an SSRI and Antipsychotic. An SSRI might "dumb" me up too much, but the atypical antipsychotic 5-ht2a antagonism might fix that.
Posted by McPac on December 2, 2003, at 20:41:25
In reply to Why does 5-HTP have immediate positive effect 4 me, posted by NoMotic on November 25, 2003, at 21:36:38
"If anyone has any idea of why acutely raising my serotonin makes me feel so good, let me know"
>>>>>>>>>>>> I have the exact same effect from tryptophan.
This is the end of the thread.
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