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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Wolf Dreamer on October 19, 2003, at 4:09:59
Instead of just trying differant things to feed my brain and purify my body, I want to know if there is anything else I can do for my anxiety.
Bullied when I was younger, spend every day unfortunately worrying about things I know are rediculous, being trapped in all manner of horrible situations with a bully, and unable to get away from their emotional abuse. 28 years old now.
Anyway, has anyone who has had this problem actually totally gotten over it?
Please don't suggest anything unless you have actually found a diffinate cure, and no longer have any anxiety at all.
Posted by zeugma on October 19, 2003, at 16:32:23
In reply to anxiety caused by bullying in youth. any cure?, posted by Wolf Dreamer on October 19, 2003, at 4:09:59
I think this'll soon get redicted to Social, or maybe Psychological Babble, but it's an interesting subject that i unfortunately know all about, so i can answer here.
Many years after the events (constant bullying, constant fighting from ages 9 or 10 at the latest until age 21, and isolated incidents even later), I can say i haven't 'gotten over it.' In fact I feel like I have a form of PTSD, which unfortunately hasn't been recognized as such by a succession of therapists who really, for all their training, seem to need great help in pointing out the obvious. I have been progressing lately through medications that (finally!) are working the way they should, and I'm currently paying a lot of money to see a CBT therapist AND a neuropsychologist specialized in the particular neuropsych issues I've always struggled with (non verbal learning disorder and ADD). Since the neuropsych sees a lot of children she's well suited to explore these issues with. I have a lot of the symptoms of PTSD. Nightmares, exaggerated startle responses, virtually constant severe anxiety. Bullying is no joke, and I hope people take it more seriously now than when I was a child. The aftereffects can last a lifetime.
Posted by Wolf Dreamer on October 20, 2003, at 6:56:14
In reply to Re: anxiety caused by bullying in youth. any cure? » Wolf Dreamer, posted by zeugma on October 19, 2003, at 16:32:23
All this change of diet, getting exercise, taking supplements... none of it is really going to work? That sucks. I guess it is for people with other causes.
There is a new treatment said to work for anyone with anxiety or phobia caused by something in their past. It is called Eye movement desensitization and reprocessing.
I'm trying to find a good webpage that explains it.
To try to make money off of this, many other steps were added in, and if you search the net you will find many horrible people trying to make money from you.
While thinking about whatever it is that bothers you, you distract yourself with external stimilation, either watching a flashlight move back and forth in front of you, or simple tapping your hands. Apparently it doesn't matter. Your brain can not make you feel anxiety/panic while being distracted by something like that. That is odd isn't it? Many people I talked to on an anxiety forum mentioned that they did all sorts of things to distract themselves whenever their mind was racing with unpleasant thoughts. Perhaps there is something to it. One person said they got better by putting a rubber band around their arm and smacking the daylights out of themselves whenever they had anxiety. After stopping the thoughts from happening for a reasonable number of days at all, they stop coming altogether.
I'm going to try this. Whenever I have the thoughts I don't want, I'll do something, anything at all to distract myself. If it works, I'll report back here.
Posted by Larry Hoover on October 20, 2003, at 13:35:21
In reply to anxiety caused by bullying in youth. any cure?, posted by Wolf Dreamer on October 19, 2003, at 4:09:59
> Instead of just trying differant things to feed my brain and purify my body, I want to know if there is anything else I can do for my anxiety.
>
> Bullied when I was younger, spend every day unfortunately worrying about things I know are rediculous, being trapped in all manner of horrible situations with a bully, and unable to get away from their emotional abuse. 28 years old now.I won't be the first to suggest it, but I was instantly drawn to the idea that you are describing the physical characteristics of PTSD. There are specific nutritional considerations for PTSD, and though they do not lead to a cure, they certainly make life more tolerable.
> Anyway, has anyone who has had this problem actually totally gotten over it?
I've got both chronic and acute PTSD; the former from childhood abuse, the latter from being assaulted by a violent alcoholic, who took advantage of my pacifism. I'm not cured, but I manage well.
> Please don't suggest anything unless you have actually found a diffinate cure, and no longer have any anxiety at all.
>
Please don't close your mind to coping strategies. All or nothing thinking is part of the disorder, by the way.Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on October 20, 2003, at 13:46:42
In reply to Re: anxiety caused by bullying in youth. any cure? » zeugma, posted by Wolf Dreamer on October 20, 2003, at 6:56:14
> All this change of diet, getting exercise, taking supplements... none of it is really going to work? That sucks. I guess it is for people with other causes.
No, you can definitely obtain benefits from nutritional supplementation. Part of the reason you developed your symptoms as an adult (rather than way back then) is due to the chronic impact of a diet insufficient to meet your stressed-out needs.
> There is a new treatment said to work for anyone with anxiety or phobia caused by something in their past. It is called Eye movement desensitization and reprocessing.
EMDR works. It did for me. However, you need to be able to recall clearly what happened to you. And, it can be dangerous (psychologically) unless you are well-prepared by a skilled trauma therapist.
> I'm trying to find a good webpage that explains it.I'll take a look around, too.
> To try to make money off of this, many other steps were added in, and if you search the net you will find many horrible people trying to make money from you.There are always people trying to make a buck. You need to learn how to find the wheat amongst the chaff.
> While thinking about whatever it is that bothers you, you distract yourself with external stimilation, either watching a flashlight move back and forth in front of you, or simple tapping your hands. Apparently it doesn't matter. Your brain can not make you feel anxiety/panic while being distracted by something like that. That is odd isn't it?That's not what happens. The rhythmic stimulus unblocks your emotions, so that you can finally feel the powerful emotions that have been suppressed. It is cathartic, not distracting.
> Many people I talked to on an anxiety forum mentioned that they did all sorts of things to distract themselves whenever their mind was racing with unpleasant thoughts. Perhaps there is something to it.
That's avoidance. That's denial. That's not what EMDR is all about.
> One person said they got better by putting a rubber band around their arm and smacking the daylights out of themselves whenever they had anxiety.
That works when the obsessive thinking is based on inappropriate or distorted thoughts. Trauma work is quite the opposite. It is designed to release the terror which has been skillfully denied.
> After stopping the thoughts from happening for a reasonable number of days at all, they stop coming altogether.
That's an application of what's called operant conditioning.
> I'm going to try this. Whenever I have the thoughts I don't want, I'll do something, anything at all to distract myself. If it works, I'll report back here.
That can work for thoughts that are inappropriate, i.e. ones that do not reflect reality. It won't help you deal with suppressed feelings arising from unresolved trauma.
Lar
Posted by zeugma on October 20, 2003, at 13:58:51
In reply to Re: anxiety caused by bullying in youth. any cure? » Wolf Dreamer, posted by Larry Hoover on October 20, 2003, at 13:35:21
> > Instead of just trying differant things to feed my brain and purify my body, I want to know if there is anything else I can do for my anxiety.
> >
> > Bullied when I was younger, spend every day unfortunately worrying about things I know are rediculous, being trapped in all manner of horrible situations with a bully, and unable to get away from their emotional abuse. 28 years old now.
>
> I won't be the first to suggest it, but I was instantly drawn to the idea that you are describing the physical characteristics of PTSD. There are specific nutritional considerations for PTSD, and though they do not lead to a cure, they certainly make life more tolerable.
>
> > Anyway, has anyone who has had this problem actually totally gotten over it?
>
> I've got both chronic and acute PTSD; the former from childhood abuse, the latter from being assaulted by a violent alcoholic, who took advantage of my pacifism. I'm not cured, but I manage well.
>
> > Please don't suggest anything unless you have actually found a diffinate cure, and no longer have any anxiety at all.
> >
> Please don't close your mind to coping strategies. All or nothing thinking is part of the disorder, by the way.Larry,
I agree completely with this. Until recently if I was doing anything and things didn't seem to be going *perfectly*, I would start to fall apart. I would become convinced that whoever saw me could see all of my flaws, would probably think I suffered from many terrible mental illnesses, would question what I was doing in that place, etc.
Now when I go outside I tell myself it doesn't matter if I look a little disheveled or if at work I don't instantly know *every* procedure to follow. Similarly, the treatments (CBT and medication) don't wipe out the bad memories, in fact they make me see them more clearly. And things are going to stagger along for a while. But a combination of approaches and coping techniques can slowly begin to make a difference, and maybe the most important insight I have come to so far is that "all or nothing" thinking is irrational.
What are the specific nutritional considerations for PTSD?
> Lar
>
Posted by jay on October 20, 2003, at 19:30:54
In reply to Re: anxiety caused by bullying in youth. any cure? » Larry Hoover, posted by zeugma on October 20, 2003, at 13:58:51
> > > Instead of just trying differant things to feed my brain and purify my body, I want to know if there is anything else I can do for my anxiety.
> > >
> > > Bullied when I was younger, spend every day unfortunately worrying about things I know are rediculous, being trapped in all manner of horrible situations with a bully, and unable to get away from their emotional abuse. 28 years old now.
> >
> > I won't be the first to suggest it, but I was instantly drawn to the idea that you are describing the physical characteristics of PTSD. There are specific nutritional considerations for PTSD, and though they do not lead to a cure, they certainly make life more tolerable.
> >
> > > Anyway, has anyone who has had this problem actually totally gotten over it?
> >
> > I've got both chronic and acute PTSD; the former from childhood abuse, the latter from being assaulted by a violent alcoholic, who took advantage of my pacifism. I'm not cured, but I manage well.
> >
> > > Please don't suggest anything unless you have actually found a diffinate cure, and no longer have any anxiety at all.
> > >
> > Please don't close your mind to coping strategies. All or nothing thinking is part of the disorder, by the way.
>
> Larry,
>
> I agree completely with this. Until recently if I was doing anything and things didn't seem to be going *perfectly*, I would start to fall apart. I would become convinced that whoever saw me could see all of my flaws, would probably think I suffered from many terrible mental illnesses, would question what I was doing in that place, etc.
>
> Now when I go outside I tell myself it doesn't matter if I look a little disheveled or if at work I don't instantly know *every* procedure to follow. Similarly, the treatments (CBT and medication) don't wipe out the bad memories, in fact they make me see them more clearly. And things are going to stagger along for a while. But a combination of approaches and coping techniques can slowly begin to make a difference, and maybe the most important insight I have come to so far is that "all or nothing" thinking is irrational.
>
> What are the specific nutritional considerations for PTSD?
>
>
> > Lar
> >
>
>Hi...
I'm not Larry...(but I play him on t.v.! ..heh...sorry)...but I do have some 'alternative' suggestions. I have many childhood issues, one big one being mild retardation (or as now labeled, 'developmental handicapped'), and this may be more of a problem for people than they think. The reason is with adequate social support, I've gone on to complete honours degrees in university, and could often charm the pants off many. But, deep inside is this scared little boy, and many feelings of insecurity and inadequacy.
Anyhow...one herb that I have used that I don't hear many talking about is "Passion Flower". It *feels* much better (to me, anyhow) than St. John's, or Valerian, and also seems to have very little side effects. Though, of course, if you take too much especially during the day, you will become very groggy and drowsy. Of the tincture, I'd take 10-15 drops 2-3 times a day, and it seems to work also good for pain and anxiety along with depression. Also, I'd be careful if you are taking other medications, and talk to an alternative specialist before using this herb.
Best wishes!
Jay
Posted by zeugma on October 20, 2003, at 20:55:59
In reply to Re: anxiety caused by bullying in youth. any cure? » zeugma, posted by jay on October 20, 2003, at 19:30:54
Hi Jay..
I've never heard of Passion Flower... and I don't know if my pdoc stays up on herbal remedies. It sounds like a sedative/anxiolytic kind of thing, whci i could always use.
It's true, these childhood issues, not just bullying, but labelling, leave long-term scars. I was diagnosed with 'minimal brain dysfunction' (later renamed 'ADD') at the age of twelve. Though by that time, my life already seemed hopelessly f*ked up. I basically felt like my life was over by that point. Just glad I'm not feeling that way now....
z
Posted by Wolf Dreamer on October 22, 2003, at 2:35:32
In reply to Re: anxiety caused by bullying in youth. any cure? » jay, posted by zeugma on October 20, 2003, at 20:55:59
http://members.aol.com/nonverbal2/selftouc.htm
There is a reason touching your body relieves stress and helps get rid of anxiety.
Apparently, your body automatically responds to certain things like this.
Some people use stress balls, some chimps scratch themselves nervously, etc.
Better to just give the link than try to quote the entire thing here. I found it most valuable. I wonder what part of the body one could touch for the most effect. It mentions lips, so I'll try that.
Posted by Larry Hoover on October 22, 2003, at 15:57:50
In reply to Re: anxiety caused by bullying in youth. any cure? » Larry Hoover, posted by zeugma on October 20, 2003, at 13:58:51
> What are the specific nutritional considerations for PTSD?I adhere to a theory proposed by a Dr. Pall which centers on the idea of chronic oxidative stress. In simple terms, your body uses up its capacity to heal from stress, and you enter into a toxic biochemical "trap", a vicious cycle involving formation of an oxidant called peroxynitrite. If you do a Google search using Pall and peroxynitrite, you'll find some of his publications on the subject.
I corresponded with Dr. Pall, and his supp recommendations were virtually identical to the ideas that I had independently determined. You need to supplement three categories of nutrients: a) those that are excreted in urine while under stress (magnesium, vitamin C, zinc); b) those that are targeted by the oxidant (long-chain omega-3s (fish oil), phospholipids, glutathione (indirectly supplemented via ensuring amino acids are digested, or using amino acid supps like body builders use, and also using MSM or TMG to provide the sulphur compounds needed); c) antioxidants (selenium, alphalipoic acid, tocopherol (vitamin E)).
Add to that your B-complex, and extra B-12, and you're probably covering all the bases.
Lar
P.S. He also mentioned some herbs.....I'll have to see if I can find his correspondence to me. It's on an old computer.....
Lar
Posted by zeugma on October 22, 2003, at 21:12:29
In reply to Re: nutrition and PTSD » zeugma, posted by Larry Hoover on October 22, 2003, at 15:57:50
My nutrition for years was a mess because I could barely eat. That caused a vicious feedback response which only worsened my condition. It's only recently that I've been in a position to consider nutrition at all. Better late than never, of course. Can "oxidative stress" cause something like melancholic depression?
I truly appreciate your suggestions, and am going to print out your post.
Thanks,
z
Posted by Larry Hoover on October 22, 2003, at 22:38:09
In reply to Re: nutrition and PTSD » Larry Hoover, posted by zeugma on October 22, 2003, at 21:12:29
> My nutrition for years was a mess because I could barely eat. That caused a vicious feedback response which only worsened my condition. It's only recently that I've been in a position to consider nutrition at all. Better late than never, of course. Can "oxidative stress" cause something like melancholic depression?
It could be a major contributor. I hesitate to use the word cause. There are always other factors to consider. Poor nutrition could also lengthen the period of major symptoms.
> I truly appreciate your suggestions, and am going to print out your post.
>
> Thanks,
>
> zYou're welcome.
Just know in your heart that you're doing the right thing for your well-being. You are what you eat. It can take a long time to restore your body's reserve of nutrients and raw materials, and to flush out the debris from periods of lower quality maintenance. One day at a time, you'll get stronger and stronger.
Lar
This is the end of the thread.
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