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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by almondjoy on October 9, 2003, at 16:29:31
My depression and especially ANXIETY are magnified the second half of my cycle. For 2 weeks i feel like doo-doo, dont want to go anywhere or be around anyone, but bcos of obligations i do almost the same as the rest of the time. does any one have suggestions though of alternative treatments for pms that wouldn't interfere with an ssri. I've tried progesterone cream, not sure that worked, and calcium/magnesium, which helps just the littlest bit. one big thing is bloating...have any of you tried a diuretic before? Any related info or links are helpful...thanks ;)
Posted by JLx on October 9, 2003, at 19:19:54
In reply to PMS relief, posted by almondjoy on October 9, 2003, at 16:29:31
Carolyn Dean, M.D. talks about PMS in terms of magnesium deficiency in "The Miracle of Magnesium" (a good book). Here's an excerpt: http://www.randomhouse.ca/catalog/display.pperl?isbn=0345445880&view=excerpt
"While women and men seem equally susceptible to magnesium deficiency, women may become deficient faster than men due to hormonal fluctuations ... Because of magnesium's effect on hormonal regulation and vice versa, women can have deficiencies in pregnancy, when breast-feeding, with premenstrual syndrome (PMS), and with dysmenorrhea (painful periods)."
You are already taking a calcium/magnesium supplement, but it's possible that you are getting very little magnesium in it, since calcium can overpower the magnesium and quite often the type of calcium in a combo is more absorbable than the type of magnesium. I've read that for PMS, the usual ratio should be reversed to twice as much magnesium as calcium.
"Magnesium is important for hormone production and transformation, as well as for the proper use of calcium and vitamin D. Magnesium deficiencies have been noted in women with PMS. Chocolate, especially dark chocolate, is a natural source of magnesium, and that may be the root of many women's PMS chocolate cravings.
A study published in the November 1998 Journal of Women's Health found that magnesium supplementation alleviates premenstrual symptoms of fluid retention."
http://www.lef.org/protocols/prtcl-091a.shtmlNote that that site's article also mentions other supplements such as Vit. B6 and Zinc.
Magnesium acetate, chloride, citrate, gluconate, glycinate, lactate, malate, succinate, sulfate, tartrate and taurate are considered more absorbable. Magnesium oxide, magnesium hydroxide and magnesium carbonate are not. Magnesium glutamate and aspartate, are probably contraindicated for depressives.
I can't imagine why magnesium or those other supplements would be problematical with the use of an SSRI.
I think it's a crying shame that we women have had calcium recommended to us in massive doses and we hear little or nothing about magnesium...except as a potentiating factor to calcium! As a result of a high calcium diet, a poorly absorbed form of magnesium in my supplement, and general ignorance, I found I was very magnesium depleted and felt better almost immediately when I started supplementing with magnesium glycinate.
I've also read many times that the best diuretic is to drink lots of water. I know I feel better the more water I drink.
Good luck! :)
> My depression and especially ANXIETY are magnified the second half of my cycle. For 2 weeks i feel like doo-doo, dont want to go anywhere or be around anyone, but bcos of obligations i do almost the same as the rest of the time. does any one have suggestions though of alternative treatments for pms that wouldn't interfere with an ssri. I've tried progesterone cream, not sure that worked, and calcium/magnesium, which helps just the littlest bit. one big thing is bloating...have any of you tried a diuretic before? Any related info or links are helpful...thanks ;)
>
Posted by tealady on October 9, 2003, at 19:57:07
In reply to PMS relief, posted by almondjoy on October 9, 2003, at 16:29:31
B6 is a great diruetic for PMS. You probably need between 20mg and 50mg..so experiment and see.
Also take some zinc in the last 2 weeks of cycle together with magnesium..you can usually get some zinc, B6, Magnesium supps..
I'd just keep taking the calc/mag at night and add these in in the morning.
Hope this helps
Jan
Posted by taylor18 on October 10, 2003, at 4:25:21
In reply to PMS relief, posted by almondjoy on October 9, 2003, at 16:29:31
My last message didn't show up. So I'm going to post once more. Krill has been shown effective in treating the emotional symptoms of PMS:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12777162&dopt=AbstractI've also heard good things about evening primrose oil but have not investigated it.
Posted by Larry Hoover on October 10, 2003, at 8:23:17
In reply to PMS relief, posted by almondjoy on October 9, 2003, at 16:29:31
> My depression and especially ANXIETY are magnified the second half of my cycle. For 2 weeks i feel like doo-doo, dont want to go anywhere or be around anyone, but bcos of obligations i do almost the same as the rest of the time. does any one have suggestions though of alternative treatments for pms that wouldn't interfere with an ssri. I've tried progesterone cream, not sure that worked, and calcium/magnesium, which helps just the littlest bit. one big thing is bloating...have any of you tried a diuretic before? Any related info or links are helpful...thanks ;)
All the ideas I've seen in this thread may be useful to you, alone, or in combination.
Magnesium deficiency is clearly linked to PMS symptom intensity. So are omega-3 deficiency, low anitoxidant status, and B-vitamin deficiency (in this context, a functional B-vitamin deficiency is more likely than a gross deficiency).
The recommendation for krill oil was intriguing, as I had not heard of this product before. My immediate thought was that it might contain a unique balance of omega-3 fatty acids, and a key omega-6 called GLA, gamma-linolenic acid (or perhaps its metabolite dihomogamma-linolenic acid). I'm sorry, I don't make these names up. They're geek-speak, but that's what they're called.
What I found was that krill oil supplies phospholipids and antioxidants, apart from the omega-3 fatty acids that are in fish oil. You could probably do as well supplementing fish oil with soya lecithin granules and alpha-lipoic acid.
Evening primrose oil is often recommended for PMS, because its a reasonably good source of GLA. Better sources are borage oil or black currant seed oil. Anyway, none of these will be very effective if you are concurrently deficient in omega-3 fatty acids. You have to have supplies of both at the same time.
About the B-vitamins, I know someone who went through hell being medically treated for PMS (SSRIs in particular) without relief, who found total remission of symptoms with B-complex, zinc, and selenium supplements. You never know what will work for you.
My sister found that if she replaced cow's milk with soy milk, her PMS disappeared entirely.
The anxiety especially might respond to niacinamide, one special form of vitamin B-3. You could take up to two grams a day, in divided doses (e.g. 500 mg four times a day).
None of these will interfere with an SSRI (except, if you're really lucky, rendering the SSRI unnecessary altogether).
Good luck,
Lar
Posted by almondjoy on October 10, 2003, at 9:11:31
In reply to Re: PMS relief » almondjoy, posted by Larry Hoover on October 10, 2003, at 8:23:17
Thanks so much all!!!
Posted by Emme on October 20, 2003, at 10:11:45
In reply to PMS relief, posted by almondjoy on October 9, 2003, at 16:29:31
My PMS symtoms are more physical than mood-related. I tried a little hydrochlorothiazide at one point for bloating and breast tenderness. It didn't do anything. My cousin got some relief from a bit of Lasix from time to time. I personally wouldn't bother trying a diuretic again. Foods that are natural diuretics include parsely, strawberries, watermelon and cucumbers. It couldn't hurt you to try eating those - they all taste good :) I think dandelion root is supposed to be helpful (you should double check on that) and can be made into a tea. I have no experience with evening primrose oil.
I'm hoping adding the Mg and taking a vit B complex will help.
> My depression and especially ANXIETY are magnified the second half of my cycle. For 2 weeks i feel like doo-doo, dont want to go anywhere or be around anyone, but bcos of obligations i do almost the same as the rest of the time. does any one have suggestions though of alternative treatments for pms that wouldn't interfere with an ssri. I've tried progesterone cream, not sure that worked, and calcium/magnesium, which helps just the littlest bit. one big thing is bloating...have any of you tried a diuretic before? Any related info or links are helpful...thanks ;)
>
Posted by judy1 on October 22, 2003, at 10:28:48
In reply to Re: PMS relief » almondjoy, posted by Larry Hoover on October 10, 2003, at 8:23:17
Did your sister suspect she had an allergy to cow's milk- or was she only symptomatic during PMS? I'll try the soy milk approach- do you think it is the soy content that's improving her symtoms? I was thinking about other sources of soy to help. My doc doesn't want me on birth control pills and I already take supplements. My biggest concern is the worsening of my bipolar symptoms during this time. Thanks for any input.
Take care, judy
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