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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Joe G on September 22, 2003, at 15:03:21
Hi All:
I have suffered with moderate to severe depression for the last 11 months or so. I tried self-medicating with alcohol and decided it would eventually have me, so I made an appt. with my doctor to try the meds route. Well after reading lots of posts on this site and spending several days on Effexor XR, I decided the side effects and withdrawal problems where worse than my depression.
Being depressed is not fun, but coming out of Wal-Mart and not being able to find my car because I don't remember parking it...well that is just the tip of the iceberg from Effexor...but you who have taken same or similar meds probably can relate. So I decided then and there that Effexor was not my answer.
I didn't end my search for depression-relief there however. In my research I read Jack Dreyfus' book about Phenytoin. For those who haven't heard of it, the book basically explains how Jack theorized an electrical problem in his body was causing his depression/anxiety and since epileptic seizures looked like an electrical shock...he had his doctor prescribe the medicine used for epilepsy treatment...and Voila! his anxiety/depression disappeared! Problem is, Phenytoin is a prescription drug and is not without its side effects...even though Jack avoids discussing them at length in his book.
But I was intrigued by Jack's idea of the electricity in your body being the problem. In our day and age of electromagnetic radiation coming at us from every angle...if our bodies are highly electrical...then the electricity in our bodies could get out of whack. (I sit in front of a computer monitor - emitting electromagnetic radiation - for 8 hours 5 days a week at least!) Pursuing that angle I came across a process called Cranial Electro Stimulation (CES).
CES is basically the process by which very minute currents of DC electricity are pulsed through your head/body. There are several companies that manufacture CES devices. Plus, there have been no known major side effects with CES for the last 20-30 years of major use. Problem is the units are FDA controlled and cost hundreds of dollars.
So I set out, with my electronic knowledge from being a teenage hobbyist, and built my own unit based on specifications I found throughout the Internet.
All I can say is "Wow". I have been using CES for 2 sessions daily for about 20-30 minutes each for about 7 days. Improvements in my mood and depression/anxiety were noticeable immediately. I have had better clarity of thought and less often at a loss for the right word. My sleep even seems to have improved...as well as my patience with my 3 wonderful kids (that's a miracle in and of itself!) Now I do have to mention that I have had a few occasions where I feel it may have caused me to forget something minor...but that could also have been due to lack of sleep (I have been working on some projects late into the evening recently.) But, overall, I would rate the experience very positive so far.
It is still new to me and I am still learning the best electrode placements, optimum duration and current strength. Hopefully, with continued success and even finer tuning of the process, CES can become an integral part of my depression remedy and a return to a more enjoyable life.
Has anyone else had any experience with CES? Anyone interested in finding out more information...or if you have questions, fire away.
Best Regards,
Joe G.
Posted by Pfinstegg on September 22, 2003, at 17:14:06
In reply to Cranial Electro Stimulation, posted by Joe G on September 22, 2003, at 15:03:21
Thank you for sharing this information. It is fascinating. Could you tell us what the amounts of current are, and, as you learn, where the optimal electrode placement is. Also, since this is an apparently FDA-approved treatment modality, what has it been used for over the past 20-30 years?
I was under the impression that electricity, unlike electromagnetic radiation, canot easily penetrate the bones of the skull unless the current is large, as in ECT. Could you comment on that? Thanks!
Pfinstegg
Posted by Joe G on September 23, 2003, at 8:38:07
In reply to Re: Cranial Electro Stimulation » Joe G, posted by Pfinstegg on September 22, 2003, at 17:14:06
> Thank you for sharing this information. It is fascinating. Could you tell us what the amounts of current are, and, as you learn, where the optimal electrode placement is. Also, since this is an apparently FDA-approved treatment modality, what has it been used for over the past 20-30 years?
>
> I was under the impression that electricity, unlike electromagnetic radiation, canot easily penetrate the bones of the skull unless the current is large, as in ECT. Could you comment on that? Thanks!
>
> Pfinstegg---------------------------------
NOTE: This is my second reply. The first one apparantly got lost in hyperspace. Forgive me if it shows up and I have double-posted.Hi Pfinstegg:
You said it correctly, it is fascinating!
The CES unit I created produces an adjustable current from about 80 to 600 microamperes. This is the same power produced by commercial units. Commercial CES units appear to use an ear clip on the earlobe for electrode placement. I do not have clips, so I have taped the electrodes in various places: behind my ears, in front, and on my forehead and back of my neck. To be honest, they all seem to be just as effective.
CES has been used for numerous conditions over the years, mainly to treat: sleep disorders, anxiety, pain, depression and drug withdrawal.
As far as the inability of microcurrents not being able to penetrate the skull, I am not aware of that. I can say that there is quite a bit of scientific research that shows it is effective and, of course, my biggest proof is it is working for ME!
I have included some links below that provide lots of additional info on CES if you are interested. I would certainly recommend that anyone suffering from anxiety, pain, depression or drug withdrawal AT LEAST look into this. All I can say is that I have felt positive results with virtually no side effects...and from reading Dr. Bob's forums it seems that is a claim no drug therapy can hold a candle to.
If anyone has any experience using CES, I would love to hear from you. Any questions or comments are encouraged.
Thanks for the reply Pfinstegg!
Take care,
Joe G.
-----------------------------
SOME CES LINKS: (Also search on Google for "cranial electro stimulation")http://www.algy.com/anxiety/cranial.html
http://www.biostimtherapy.com/newsletters/september98/fact_files.html
http://www.sleeping-tips.com/cranial-electrical-stimulation-and-insomnia.htm#insomnia
http://alpha-stim.com/Information/Technology/Research/Index/index.html
Posted by Joe G on September 23, 2003, at 10:05:09
In reply to Cranial Electro Stimulation, posted by Joe G on September 22, 2003, at 15:03:21
One benefit of CES I forgot to mention is my decrease in social anxiety. As I sit here at work and relate to my co-workers I was reminded of the fabulous change I noticed in this area.
I feel more confident speaking to people...and the lack of nervousness I would sometimes experience in the past is diminished greatly.
Joe G.
Posted by dabelson on September 29, 2003, at 15:54:31
In reply to Cranial Electro Stimulation, posted by Joe G on September 22, 2003, at 15:03:21
Hi Joe -- This is my first post on Psychobabble. I have suffered from "treatment-resistant" depression/anxiety (with some panic attacks) for over 25 years, and have tried virtually all of the available medications as well as ECT twice. About two weeks ago I began using a CES device ("Alpha Stim") once a day for about 20-30 minutes. At first, I found it "calming" during treatments and it left me somewhat "spacy" afterwards. After about a week, however, I exprienced dramatic increase in my anxiety levels and I finally stopped a few days ago. After quitting, I experienced some increase in depression, like withdrawal from meds. Therefore, I know CES does have an impact, it just wasn't helpful for me. Please keep posting on this subject. Thanks. David
Posted by Joe G on September 30, 2003, at 8:13:07
In reply to My Reaction To CES, posted by dabelson on September 29, 2003, at 15:54:31
> Hi Joe -- This is my first post on Psychobabble. I have suffered from "treatment-resistant" depression/anxiety (with some panic attacks) for over 25 years, and have tried virtually all of the available medications as well as ECT twice. About two weeks ago I began using a CES device ("Alpha Stim") once a day for about 20-30 minutes. At first, I found it "calming" during treatments and it left me somewhat "spacy" afterwards. After about a week, however, I exprienced dramatic increase in my anxiety levels and I finally stopped a few days ago. After quitting, I experienced some increase in depression, like withdrawal from meds. Therefore, I know CES does have an impact, it just wasn't helpful for me. Please keep posting on this subject. Thanks. David
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hi David:
Thanks for the post..and "welcome"!
Two things came to mind while thinking about what you wrote:
1. After using CES twice a day for about 3 days I noticed I felt like I was overdosing, so I stopped for two whole days and the overdose effect went away and the positive feelings returned. Since you only did 1 session a day, after a week you may have run into the same overdose (or "overuse") effect that I did. Of course, that may not have been the case also...just an idea.
2. Also, it is possible that my brain "problem" (for lack of a term I like any better) is electrical in nature whereas yours may not be. Obviously, we know some treatments work for some and not others...even when the placebo effect is taken into account.
Thanks again for sharing your experience!
Take Care,
Joe
Posted by dabelson on September 30, 2003, at 15:06:27
In reply to Re: My Reaction To CES, posted by Joe G on September 30, 2003, at 8:13:07
Hi Joe -- Thanks for your feedback and suggestions. I found them to be both thoughtful and supportive. I may try CES again in the future, but at a much lower "dose" frequency as you suggest. For others who may be reading this, I did find that Cranial Electro Stimulation has real impacts, they simply weren't positive in my case. However, this seems to me to be an "alternative" well worth considering, particularly if the traditional medications have not been of help. I will continue to follow this thread with interest, and I hope that Joe (and anyone else with experience using CES) will continue to post their experiences with this very interesting "alternative." David
This is the end of the thread.
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