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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 13 to 37 of 45. Go back in thread:
Posted by ed_uk2010 on May 26, 2013, at 13:36:49
In reply to Re: Babble Strike Sort Of?, posted by SLS on May 24, 2013, at 6:34:52
Hi Scott,
>My concern has been that seeing a single poster's name on half of the subject lines devalues Psycho-Babble in the eyes of potential members, especially when they all involve the same content and adversarial dynamic. It might be restorative to the website to reset the subject line back to the theme of the thread in such cases.
Honestly, I think it would be better if such posts were deleted. In my opinion, they have had a profoundly negative effect on the board over the last few years. Allowing this person to continue posting has likely caused distress to a large proportion of new posters who have been inundated with highly unpleasant messages whilst in a vulnerable state.
The quantity of spam-like posts is part of the reason that I personally don't post here very often anymore.
Posted by Twinleaf on May 26, 2013, at 16:21:09
In reply to Re: Babble Strike Sort Of? » SLS, posted by ed_uk2010 on May 26, 2013, at 13:36:49
I strongly support that view. Psychobabble has been an important source of both valuable information and emotional support for me for a number of years, but I am very concerned that these posts are gradually destroying the things which were once so important and appealing to both new and long-time posters.
To many of us who have posted repeatedly on this topic, a reasonable degree of monitoring of this site so as to improve this situation seems hard to argue with. We have, however, not found any agreement or understanding of that viewpoint here, and I, too, am beginning to be very concerned that Babble simply won't be able to continue if this, and similar problems, are not addressed. It would be a huge loss, but I am afraid it is becoming a real possibility.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on May 27, 2013, at 4:46:19
In reply to Re: Babble Strike Sort Of? » ed_uk2010, posted by Twinleaf on May 26, 2013, at 16:21:09
>I am very concerned that these posts are gradually destroying the things which were once so important and appealing to both new and long-time posters.
Indeed. Just as an example, a poster apparently in a very vulnerable state was yesterday informed that her meds could 'in your case.....cause death by cardiac or respiratory failure.' There was then the suggestion that her meds were related to 'a mind-altered state to compel you to want to kill yourself and/or others, even commit mass-murder.'
I find these posts unhelpful and frankly disturbing. There is no doubt that some people react very badly to specific psych medications but these posts bear little relationship to what the poster has asked. If a new poster reported that shortly after starting a new medication they suddenly felt suicidal, it would be appropriate to warn the poster that some people get worse on meds and to tell their pdoc immediately. Scare tactics are not supportive. Replies should be relevant to the poster's questions, and should not hi-jack the thread.
I think the board would do much better if new posters could view the many supportive and informative posts, and not out-of-context posts about death, respiratory failure and mass murder.
Posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 9:15:38
In reply to Re: Babble Strike Sort Of? » Twinleaf, posted by ed_uk2010 on May 27, 2013, at 4:46:19
And moreover, in the justifiable desire to counter incorrect facts in the posts on that thread, the original poster was lost as the focus.
I think maybe in such cases, the post and replies to it should be moved to a new thread, to allow the original poster to receive pertinent replies.
I'm also wondering whether it would be ok with Dr. Bob if posters gently remind newcomers that it's ok to state that certain types of posts (such as blanket anti medication posts) wouldn't be helpful. Last I heard, Dr. Bob had agreed to enforce that request.
Posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 10:35:37
In reply to Re: Babble Strike Sort Of?, posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 9:15:38
I wonder if there could be a checkbox in the posting box asking if the poster were open to blanket anti-medication posts or posts attempting to free them from the shackles of dependency on medication drugs.
Perhaps not worded that way.
Only if the originating poster answered yes would posts of that type be allowed on their thread.
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 10:39:16
In reply to Re: Babble Strike Sort Of?, posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 9:15:38
> And moreover, in the justifiable desire to counter incorrect facts in the posts on that thread, the original poster was lost as the focus.
>
> I think maybe in such cases, the post and replies to it should be moved to a new thread, to allow the original poster to receive pertinent replies.
>
> I'm also wondering whether it would be ok with Dr. Bob if posters gently remind newcomers that it's ok to state that certain types of posts (such as blanket anti medication posts) wouldn't be helpful. Last I heard, Dr. Bob had agreed to enforce that request.Friends,
It is written here,[...desire to counter incorrect facts in the posts in that thread...].
One of the facts involved here is as to if Effexor and Trileptal could be taken together without the aspect that they are both CNS depressants that when taken together could cause death. Be advised, that the fact that they are both CNS depressants is indeed correct and that knowing that could save lives.
And you parents can now see for yourselves what is being written about me here in this and other threads. I have come here to save lives and prevent life-running conditions and addictions. This can be done by offering educational material that could help you make a more-informed decision as to drug yourself or your child in collaboration with a psychiatrist/doctor with mind-altering drugs that could induce a mind-altered state to compel the taker of the drug to kill themselves and /or others and even commit mass-murder. And if the education that I can give here is prohibited, then is that what education is, or is it just a transparent attempt to establish an indoctrination. An indoctrination that could lead to death.
Lou
Posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 10:45:28
In reply to Lou's response- » Dinah, posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 10:39:16
Lou, since my post had nothing to do with parents or children, why did you bring that pointedly into your reply?
Could it have something to do with the fact that I have previously stated that I find such descriptions upsetting? Could you have found my post upsetting, so are trying to upset me as well? Or are you planning to include such references in all your posts to me, perhaps because you are angry with me?
You say that you are protected from anger in your board interactions, but things like this would tend to suggest other possibilities.
Posted by SLS on May 27, 2013, at 11:17:51
In reply to Re: Lou's response-, posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 10:45:28
Hi Dinah.
Problematic behaviors.
I like the sort of approach you take in:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20130109/msgs/1044315.html
It is possible to block someone from posting on a website without hating them.
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 11:27:32
In reply to Re: Lou's response-, posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 10:45:28
> Lou, since my post had nothing to do with parents or children, why did you bring that pointedly into your reply?
>
> Could it have something to do with the fact that I have previously stated that I find such descriptions upsetting? Could you have found my post upsetting, so are trying to upset me as well? Or are you planning to include such references in all your posts to me, perhaps because you are angry with me?
>
> You say that you are protected from anger in your board interactions, but things like this would tend to suggest other possibilities.D,
The posts here are read by people trying to make a decision as to drug themselves or their children or a parent or spouse or someone else or not. Many readers could be parents trying to have more knowledge concerning mind-altering drugs due to the now growing body of evidence pointing to that these drugs could induce a mind-altered state in children in particular to kill themselves and/or others and even commit mass-murder. The drugs can cause life-ruining conditions.I want them to know all the facts.
Lou
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3m1XwtPWXE
Posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 11:29:53
In reply to Lou's reply » Dinah, posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 11:27:32
To me, out of context.
I have to tell you that upsetting things used in an aggressive manner do not hurt me.
Will you include mentions of drugging your children in your response to me. That would be verging on hilarious.
Posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 11:30:37
In reply to Lou's reply » Dinah, posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 11:27:32
If you believe God protects you from feeling anger on Babble, you might want to ask him for a bit more help.
Posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 11:35:07
In reply to Re: Lou's reply » Lou Pilder, posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 11:30:37
Another key to success in mood stabilization.
Congrats Lou. You've figured out how to get rid of me - for as long as it works. It won't work forever.
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 11:44:12
In reply to Re: Lou's reply » Lou Pilder, posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 11:30:37
> If you believe God protects you from feeling anger on Babble, you might want to ask him for a bit more help.
>
> D,
I am not protected by the God that I give service and worship to from anger. Anger can be a good thing, for it can cause direction to be taken. The Sun and the Shield do come into play, however in anger. The Sun heals me from the pain of anger and gives me the power to overcome anger. I am instructed to not let the sun go down on my anger, and have rest. Each night before I go to bed, my friend, I dedicate any anger to the one I love.
Lou
Posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 11:47:33
In reply to Hate and problematic behaviors. » Dinah, posted by SLS on May 27, 2013, at 11:17:51
Problematic behaviors don't make me hate. But they *can* make me angry. I tend to be happier when I avoid situations where people behave in ways that violate my notions of how they "should" behave.
I think Dr. Bob "should" address problematic behaviors.
I suppose I could work on my "should-ing". But the incentive would have to be high enough.
Posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 11:55:02
In reply to Lou's reply- » Dinah, posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 11:44:12
IMO, anger should have more than a fair amount of pain attached to it.
Feeling pain at others' anger is a natural response designed to increase cooperative social behavior.
Feeling pain at one's own anger helps to keep one from hanging onto it. It is a suggestion that perhaps a non-angry response is called for.
I don't wish to cause you pain, or feel pain caused by you. I would prefer to work together, if possible, to find ways for you to post what you need to post in ways that are conducive to the building of community at Babble.
We have different goals. You believe, if I understand correctly, that you have been called by the divine to a ministry at Babble specifically to free people from the shackles of psychiatric drugs. I have the goal of trying to encourage a healthy community of support and education from those who are seeking help, including medical help of medication, with mental illness.
Do you see any way to achieve your goal without harming mine?
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 12:06:04
In reply to Re: Lou's reply- » Lou Pilder, posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 11:55:02
> IMO, anger should have more than a fair amount of pain attached to it.
>
> Feeling pain at others' anger is a natural response designed to increase cooperative social behavior.
>
> Feeling pain at one's own anger helps to keep one from hanging onto it. It is a suggestion that perhaps a non-angry response is called for.
>
> I don't wish to cause you pain, or feel pain caused by you. I would prefer to work together, if possible, to find ways for you to post what you need to post in ways that are conducive to the building of community at Babble.
>
> We have different goals. You believe, if I understand correctly, that you have been called by the divine to a ministry at Babble specifically to free people from the shackles of psychiatric drugs. I have the goal of trying to encourage a healthy community of support and education from those who are seeking help, including medical help of medication, with mental illness.
>
> Do you see any way to achieve your goal without harming mine?D,
People can make their own determination as to if they want to drug themselves or not in collaboration with a psychiatrist/doctor. But in order for one to make an informed decision, they use the facts to do so. Any repression of facts IMHHHO, is academic dishonesty and could lead to the deaths of others from psychiatric drugs.
Lou
Posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 12:11:33
In reply to Lou's reply- » Dinah, posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 12:06:04
That didn't really answer my question. Specifically...
1. Is it your belief that you were called by the divine to minister at Babble to help free people from the shackles of dependency on psychiatric drugs, or to keep them free from the shackles before they begin?
2. Do you see any ways your goals can be achieved while in such a way as to further my goals of fostering a community of support and education, or at least not be incompatible with my goals?
Posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 12:21:57
In reply to Lou's reply- » Dinah, posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 12:06:04
Oh wait. I think I see.
Are you saying that my goals can be achieved at the same time your goals are? In that you are giving people additional information to help them make decisions?
I suppose that's a valid enough point, although I have reservations.
Do you think the *way* you disseminate that information could increase or decrease the chances of fostering a supportive community?
For example, would it be fostering a supportive community for the free exchange of information to continually suggest that the use of medications will lead death, or the user becoming a mass murderer? Would the use of statistics help the free exchange of information? For example, "controlled studies have shown that suicides increased xxx% over placebo" or "xxx in xxxxx uses of the medication have led to incidents of mass murder" or "the mass murderers make up x% of the population as a whole, and x% of the population taking this medication".
Would it be compatible to your mission to say that people should have the right to say they do or do not want to be be the subject of a ministry to keep them from the shackles of drugs in response to their own posts?
It wouldn't harm your ministry to nonposters if you put your warnings in separate threads. And it won't help your ministry any to preach to the unwilling. In fact, doing the latter is counterproductive to my goal - and in my opinion to your own as well.
Posted by SLS on May 27, 2013, at 12:24:49
In reply to Stepping away from Babble, posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 11:35:07
> Another key to success in mood stabilization.
>
> Congrats Lou. You've figured out how to get rid of me - for as long as it works. It won't work forever.I sure am glad that you decided to continue posting - at least for now. You have been particularly helpful on the Medication board. I take away many lessons from you, not the least important being those of objectivity and fairness. I hope you remain an active poster on Psycho-Babble.
- Scott
Posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 12:26:58
In reply to Re: Stepping away from Babble » Dinah, posted by SLS on May 27, 2013, at 12:24:49
My anger is rarely long lasting.
A direct answer from Lou melted it fast enough.
And thank you! :)
Posted by SLS on May 27, 2013, at 12:43:35
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-, posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 12:21:57
> Oh wait. I think I see.
Are you sure?
Please do not rely upon your hopes to change someone else's behavior as a condition of your staying at PB. I doubt it will happen.
I see you always making great efforts to support and attempt to nurture Lou Pilder. I fear that continuing to do so will only frustrate you. Even worse, it might hurt you. Please don't hurt yourself. Do you ever see yourself as a victim of the Einstein theorem on insanity? Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
If I have underestimated your command of this situation, I apologize. I'm just being selfish in wanting you to stay here.
I post in response to Lou Pilder on the Medication board only to edify others. It is not my concern to win an argument against Lou Pilder. I do not expect to change his mind or his behavior. I actually rely on his recalcitrance.
Have a nice day, Dinah. Don't let anyone ruin it.
- Scott
Posted by ed_uk2010 on May 27, 2013, at 14:17:43
In reply to Lou's response- » Dinah, posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 10:39:16
> > And moreover, in the justifiable desire to counter incorrect facts in the posts on that thread, the original poster was lost as the focus.
> >
> > I think maybe in such cases, the post and replies to it should be moved to a new thread, to allow the original poster to receive pertinent replies.A good idea.
>This can be done by offering educational material
The information you offer is rarely of educational quality. The website ehealthme is an example, as is the drug interaction checker on drugs.com.
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 16:03:30
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-, posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 12:21:57
> Oh wait. I think I see.
>
> Are you saying that my goals can be achieved at the same time your goals are? In that you are giving people additional information to help them make decisions?
>
> I suppose that's a valid enough point, although I have reservations.
>
> Do you think the *way* you disseminate that information could increase or decrease the chances of fostering a supportive community?
>
> For example, would it be fostering a supportive community for the free exchange of information to continually suggest that the use of medications will lead death, or the user becoming a mass murderer? Would the use of statistics help the free exchange of information? For example, "controlled studies have shown that suicides increased xxx% over placebo" or "xxx in xxxxx uses of the medication have led to incidents of mass murder" or "the mass murderers make up x% of the population as a whole, and x% of the population taking this medication".
>
> Would it be compatible to your mission to say that people should have the right to say they do or do not want to be be the subject of a ministry to keep them from the shackles of drugs in response to their own posts?
>
> It wouldn't harm your ministry to nonposters if you put your warnings in separate threads. And it won't help your ministry any to preach to the unwilling. In fact, doing the latter is counterproductive to my goal - and in my opinion to your own as well.D,
What I am doing here is sowing seeds of hope to those that want a way out of depression and addiction. The seeds will not germinate until water and light penetrate the seed. I am prohibited from posting what that water and light are here due to the prohibitions to me by Mr Hsiung. But at the same time the seeds are sown and some may find the Light and the Water to cause the seed to germinate later.
I am also telling of The Sun of Righteousness than can arise wiht healing in His wings and what the conditions are for that Sun to arise to you. That Sun arises in the heart, and illuminates the darkness to be dispelled so that addiction and depression are vanished from one's heart and they have a new heart, a new spirit, and a new mind. And they live in a different realm where there is no death. This is all prohibited by Mr Hsiung's prohibitions to me to post here.
I do not know what kind of ground the seeds will fall on. And I do not know if the Water and the Light will get to those seeds. But I do know that it has been revealed to me that whatever a man sows, so shall he reap. And if they sow hate, they will reap hate. If they sow death, they will reap death. And those that think that they can stop the Light of Life from penetrating the darkness, or stop the rain from falling, I say to you that in an encounter that I had with a Rider on a white horse, He said to me, "Seek the Lord while He may be found. Call upon Him while He is near. Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts, let him return to the Lord, and He will have mercy on him. And to our God, for He will abundantly pardon.
For His thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways His ways. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are His ways higher than your ways, and His thoughts higher than your thoughts.
For as the rain and snow come down from heaven, and do not return there, but water the earth and make it bring forth the bud, that it may give seed to the sower and bread to the eater,
So shall HIs word be that goes from His mouth.
It shall not return to Him void but shall accomplish what He pleases and shall prosper in the thing for which He sent it.
For you shall go out with joy and be led out with peace. The mountains and hills shall break forth in singing before you. And all the trees of the field shall clap their hands."
Lou
Posted by Phillipa on May 27, 2013, at 19:10:36
In reply to Lou's reply- » Dinah, posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 16:03:30
Who is the Rider on the White Horse? I think I will google this? What do I have to lose? Phillipa
Posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 19:56:46
In reply to Recalcitrance, insanity, and Einstein. » Dinah, posted by SLS on May 27, 2013, at 12:43:35
I've generally found that it's better not to do anything at all with the expectation of a desired response. When I post something like this, it's generally more a question of my doing what I would have *me* do, not my trying to have another do what I would have him do.
I suppose as much as anything, it was an attempt to express to Lou that I have no ill intent towards him, while also expressing *my* feelings about what Babble ought to be and my concerns about how certain posting styles can affect that.
Not that that my "ought" is of any real importance, since Babble will be more guided by Dr. Bob's "oughts".
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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