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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 56. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Phillipa on February 23, 2011, at 13:05:04
Well time to get something written on the boards. No one have anything to say no cabin fever? Phillipa
Posted by Twinleaf on March 25, 2011, at 14:41:55
In reply to Out Of The Closet So To speak, posted by Phillipa on February 23, 2011, at 13:05:04
that Bob has apparently not been reading for the past month. On occasion, Racer has carried out punitive administrative actions for him. This has made a particularly cold, harsh impression, as she no longer cares to be a part of the community.
The few, occasional posters seem to have flourished in the absence of administrative instructions, warnings and punishments. By and large, people are just naturally treating each other with warmth and respect. There is also greater honesty and diversity of opinion - in the absence of administrative threats that differing opinions may cause hurt feelings.
The community is tiny, and struggling to survive, but, it seems to me that it's healthier and more helpful to it's members now, when there is little to no administrative interference.
Posted by 10derheart on March 25, 2011, at 16:41:25
In reply to No-one has mentioned....., posted by Twinleaf on March 25, 2011, at 14:41:55
> that Bob has apparently not been reading for the past month.How do you know that? I never did or do. He could be reading. He could not be reading. I think reading requires far less time and effort than actually acting.
>On occasion, Racer has carried out punitive administrative actions for him.
Yes, she has asked people to be civil and blocked those who did not choose to follow the guidelines after prior civility requests. She is the only deputy; this is part of what deputies have agreed to do, when they are able and willing.
>>This has made a particularly cold, harsh impression,
This is, of course, your interpretation. Her being willing to step in and administrate when Dr. Bob cannot or does not never strikes me as cold or harsh. She appears to do her deputy posting in the same fair, clear and matter-of-fact way she always has. I feel grateful and appreciative *because* Racer no longer posts and so, one could say...."why care?" Yet, she does.
It might be an interesting experiment/coincidence for Dr. Bob as I think he may have indicated at some point (can't recall when or where) that he might prefer or like to try having deputies who do not post, for their own emotional well-being, or something - I forget the precise rationale. (Hopefully, he or someone will correct me if this is wrong.) Also, didn't some Babblers post that they thought it was some sort of conflict of interest to both post and be a deputy? Weren't their concerns that deputies formed friendships and then were biased or played favorites later? Haven't there been some calls for deputies such as grad students, etc., who are not active members? I guess you must not have been in that camp:-)
I, myself, would not agree to such a condition if I were to ever be a deputy again. I would certainly wish to be *allowed* to post as my engagement, connection and activity were essential to my being able to perform deputy functions in good conscience, at least in the role deputies used to have. I can imagine how others might feel safer and more comfortable *not* posting though. Everyone's thresholds and triggers are pretty different, it seems.
>>as she no longer cares to be a part of the community.
I wonder how you know this? Maybe she cares a lot and would love to participate but mentally, emotionally, or physically cannot (these are MH boards, after all). I rarely post, and mostly on Psych. I have gone months and months without any posts at all. Does this make me no longer part of the community? Where do we draw the line?
Posted by Twinleaf on March 25, 2011, at 20:53:28
In reply to No-one has mentioned....., posted by Twinleaf on March 25, 2011, at 14:41:55
I don't know for sure , of course. I was going by his post of Feb 19, in which he said, "I hope to get back to reading soon... " This, plus the fact that there have not been any posts from him since then. Every other thought I expressed is my own only, of course.
I am curious as to whether anyone else has had the same favorable reaction to recent postings, or if anyone else sees a favorable result from the current lack of administrative input.
Posted by Phillipa on March 25, 2011, at 21:25:32
In reply to No-one has mentioned....., posted by Twinleaf on March 25, 2011, at 14:41:55
Twinleaf yes I have observed the same. Seems we end up working things out. What do you think it's better? I find it less intimidating. Feel freer to say what I think a word not allowed. As some words you just don't feel but think one emotions the other intelligent thoughts. No just my opinion. Phillipa
Posted by Twinleaf on March 25, 2011, at 22:53:46
In reply to Re: No-one has mentioned..... » Twinleaf, posted by Phillipa on March 25, 2011, at 21:25:32
I think people feel a bit more relaxed. They can express opinions without feeling so much that it implies a criticism of differing views. I think this enables greater honesty and more "realness". See the recent Psychobabble threads - they seem more like ones from several years ago.
I honestly never expected to signs of new life in poor old Babble, which has been struggling to barely stay alive. I hope it's real.
Posted by obsidian on March 25, 2011, at 22:56:52
In reply to No-one has mentioned....., posted by Twinleaf on March 25, 2011, at 14:41:55
Has there really been any need for administrative intervention though?
Posted by Twinleaf on March 25, 2011, at 23:05:30
In reply to Re: No-one has mentioned..... » Twinleaf, posted by obsidian on March 25, 2011, at 22:56:52
No. But from my point of view, too much administrative hovering over the threads makes people overly cautious and results in boring, not very useful posts. A month without a single PBC is great!
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 25, 2011, at 23:35:35
In reply to No-one has mentioned....., posted by Twinleaf on March 25, 2011, at 14:41:55
> Racer has carried out punitive administrative actions for him. This has made a particularly cold, harsh impression, as she no longer cares to be a part of the community.
Hi, everyone,
I'd like Twinleaf to remain an active member of the Babble community. If you do, too, please encourage her to avoid another block by rephrasing or apologizing. Perhaps you could also volunteer to help her avoid future blocks by being her civility buddy:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#buddies
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Phillipa on March 25, 2011, at 23:45:24
In reply to Re: No-one has mentioned....., posted by Twinleaf on March 25, 2011, at 23:05:30
Twinleaf please stay you are a valued part of the community. From someone who really cares Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on March 25, 2011, at 23:52:28
In reply to Re: No-one has mentioned..... » Twinleaf, posted by Phillipa on March 25, 2011, at 23:45:24
I feel babble will sputter out now. Just my own personal opinion of course. Phillipa ps back to facebook
Posted by Twinleaf on March 26, 2011, at 0:04:58
In reply to Re: No-one has mentioned..... » Twinleaf, posted by 10derheart on March 25, 2011, at 16:41:25
I think everyone's aware that overly frequent civility warnings, excessive blocking and a general lack of sensitivity towards the feelings of the community have been the major causes behind Babble's collapse. In the crisis climate that we have been in for some time now, it does appear, to me, insensitive for a deputy to cease being a participant while retaining punitive administrative functions- the very thing which many posters feel is at the heart of our difficulties. I was making a comment about the impression that made on me; not, of course about Racer's feelings or motives, which I of course
know nothing about and would not presume to comment on.I think that, for Babble to survive, all administrative actions will have to be applied much more sparingly, and with much more regard and respect for people's feelings. We need many more months like the one we just had - in which no administrative actions whatsoever take place. From time to time, administrative actions will be needed. But for Babble to once again be robust, meaningful, fun.... It needs to function
freely and independently.
Posted by Phillipa on March 26, 2011, at 0:43:09
In reply to Re: No-one has mentioned....., posted by Twinleaf on March 26, 2011, at 0:04:58
Twinleaf thanks for rewording in such a kind way!!!!! Phillipa
Posted by Dinah on March 26, 2011, at 9:23:52
In reply to Re: No-one has mentioned....., posted by Twinleaf on March 26, 2011, at 0:04:58
I have largely LEFT Babble because of the *absence* of administrative presence and because of the behavior of posters towards each other with no timely intervention of administration. I've continued posting on Psychology because as yet the lack of administrative intervention there has not been a major issue.
There are lots of places on the internet where people are free to say whatever they like. I'm sorry to see a place like Babble was go away. But unless there's timely administration here, the environment I loved is already gone.
As far as Racer's lack of involvement on Babble goes, Dr. Bob has indicated to me that he won't accept me back as deputy unless I cease to post. I don't really see myself wanting to volunteer deputize where I am not part of the community.
It's what Dr. Bob *wants*, and it's not fair to blame Racer for that. Of course, some deputies have found it difficult or impossible to continue to post given the pressures that deputies sometimes fall under. I don't think negativity towards lack of involvement that is, in part, a result of past negativity to deputies is likely to encourage participation by deputies even if it were allowed by Dr. Bob. Which at present I understand it is not.
Perhaps a positive interest directed to Racer as to why she is no longer an active poster at Babble would be more likely to elicit a positive response.
Posted by Dinah on March 26, 2011, at 9:50:29
In reply to Re: No-one has mentioned..... » Twinleaf, posted by Dinah on March 26, 2011, at 9:23:52
Not everyone is aware of the *same* "truths".
That's life. There is seldom one truth. There are facts and there is everything we build on the facts. The facts are that Babble is less active at at a time when there is less administrative involvement than ever. But that there is less contentiousness over administration. And that at this moment, though not at all moments since active administration ceased, there is a minimum of conflict.
What truths anyone erects from those facts may be as much about the thinker as about the subject of the thought.
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 26, 2011, at 10:36:08
In reply to Re: No-one has mentioned....., posted by Twinleaf on March 26, 2011, at 0:04:58
> overly frequent civility warnings, excessive blocking and a general lack of sensitivity towards the feelings of the community
> it does appear, to me, insensitive
Hi, everyone,
I'd like Twinleaf to remain an active member of the Babble community. If you do, too, please encourage her to avoid another block by rephrasing or apologizing. Perhaps you could also volunteer to help her avoid future blocks by being her civility buddy:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#buddies
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by sigismund on March 26, 2011, at 14:07:56
In reply to Re: another opportunity to support Twinleaf, posted by Dr. Bob on March 26, 2011, at 10:36:08
You would remember Scott coming to the same impression about the administration as well.
I'm sorry that this is happening to Twinleaf. I was not aware that describing something or someone as insensitive was uncivil.
This kind of required public retraction........I understand it from one point of view, and from another it feels really unhelpful (is that civil?) and proves her point that some people are subject to greater scrutiny than others. That isn't so odd either. Perhaps some people should be subject to greater scrutiny. But why her? That's what I've never understood.
Posted by sigismund on March 26, 2011, at 14:21:59
In reply to Re: opportunity to support Twinleaf, posted by Dr. Bob on March 25, 2011, at 23:35:35
>> Racer has carried out punitive administrative actions for him. This has made a particularly cold, harsh impression, as she no longer cares to be a part of the community.
I consider Racer one of my friends. But it is true that, for whatever reason, she is no longer posting and to that extent is no longer part of the community. And she has carried out administrative actions for Bob. If Twinleaf found that to feel cold and harsh, well, that is how she found it. I really don't see the problem.
I would ask Bob to quietly reflect on Scott's excellent posts about administration here.
It has to be said that on at least one occasion when Racer came, there really should have been no argument. I certainly had none with her then.
Posted by Deneb on March 26, 2011, at 18:13:36
In reply to Re: another opportunity to support Twinleaf, posted by Dr. Bob on March 26, 2011, at 10:36:08
Hi Twinleaf,
I can be your civility buddy if you want me to. I don't want you to get blocked.
Posted by obsidian on March 26, 2011, at 18:27:52
In reply to Re: another opportunity to support Twinleaf, posted by Dr. Bob on March 26, 2011, at 10:36:08
Just let it go
Posted by sigismund on March 26, 2011, at 18:46:34
In reply to Re: No-one has mentioned....., posted by Twinleaf on March 26, 2011, at 0:04:58
>I think everyone's aware that overly frequent civility warnings, excessive blocking and a general lack of sensitivity towards the feelings of the community have been the major causes behind Babble's collapse.
Maybe you are not allowed to say that, especially when there is so much truth in it?
Not for everyone though. Just for some.
I remember when Bob was surprised when I suggested it appeared as if he wanted to block some people for life. It's strange, what is obvious to some is not obvious to others.
Posted by Phillipa on March 26, 2011, at 21:57:08
In reply to Re: No-one has mentioned....., posted by sigismund on March 26, 2011, at 18:46:34
Came back to say I feel demeaned like begging to have Twinleaf rephase again. To me in my humble opinion she has said nothing wrong. Anyone insulted? Hurt? Humiliated? If Racer isn't active my feeling only that she might not be either. Of course personally I can't speak for her. Maybe it might help if she were to post how she feels. Speaking for others to me only isn't right. We all have a voice may she voice hers? Seems fair to me but I could be wrong I am a lot. Phillipa
Posted by Twinleaf on March 26, 2011, at 23:29:18
In reply to Re: No-one has mentioned....., posted by Phillipa on March 26, 2011, at 21:57:08
Thank you so much for your support, everyone.
I think that it would be hard to find a person who cares about the well-being of Babble more than I do. This is the basic context in which all of my posts have been written. I am not alone; perhaps a dozen others have written the same things. None of them have been blocked for doing so
On the separate issue of Racer: I have always enjoyed her
posts, and have missed her presence. The latest block was most needed and welcome - no argument there! And definitely no criticism of Racer meant. Uncoupling the deputies' social and administrative functions did make the latter appear harsher to me. That's all.I have written what I believe to be the truth in both instances. If I rephrase so as to change the meaning, I will be lying, and you will all know it. What could possibly be the purpose in that? And, more to the point, why get rid of a caring, supportive poster like me? The fact that I care enough to identify problem areas honestly should be counted as an asset.
Posted by sigismund on March 26, 2011, at 23:29:54
In reply to Re: No-one has mentioned....., posted by Phillipa on March 26, 2011, at 21:57:08
I've always felt that these kids of procedures are designed to make those within the enclosure feel more virtuous.
I had hoped that now there were fewer inside, that these procedures would fade away.
Posted by Phillipa on March 27, 2011, at 0:23:41
In reply to Re: No-one has mentioned....., posted by sigismund on March 26, 2011, at 23:29:54
Twinleaf I support your beliefs. Phillipa
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