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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Nadezda on November 9, 2009, at 17:53:42
Why can't we all look at our part in this, and try to learn something from it?
I'm trying. I know it isn't easy, but perhaps there is something positive in this, if we can look at how we each handled things, and see how we might have handled things better.
Nadezda
Posted by BayLeaf on November 9, 2009, at 19:45:44
In reply to That's not why., posted by Nadezda on November 9, 2009, at 17:53:42
LOL! Yeah, I should I have.....um..what? shut up? rolled over? bent over??
I did exactly the right thing. I got annoyed and posted my thoughts.
Do you have a problem with that?
bay
Posted by Sigismund on November 9, 2009, at 21:23:31
In reply to Re: That's not why. » Nadezda, posted by BayLeaf on November 9, 2009, at 19:45:44
We've been bad and uncivil.
Let me rephrase...I have been bad and uncivil.
This is no surprise, though the merit of admitting it is diminished by the abject pleasure of so doing.
But if I had been more civil things would have been different, and I wouldn't have learned as much.
Certainly if Babble had been more civil, it would have been less fun.Swings and roundabouts.
Posted by Sigismund on November 9, 2009, at 21:25:06
In reply to That's not why., posted by Nadezda on November 9, 2009, at 17:53:42
>I know it isn't easy
It is easy, trust me. Perhaps too easy.
Posted by fleeting flutterby on November 10, 2009, at 10:04:23
In reply to That's not why., posted by Nadezda on November 9, 2009, at 17:53:42
> Why can't we all look at our part in this, and try to learn something from it?<<
--flutterby: Ah, yes-- I should have not trusted someone-- that they would not change things without prior notice to the members. It is my fault.... just like my husband blames me for his abusive behavior..... I should have not trusted... that is my part in this.
>
> I'm trying. I know it isn't easy, but perhaps there is something positive in this, if we can look at how we each handled things, and see how we might have handled things better.
>
> Nadezda<<---flutterby: Looks like those that spoke their feelings of vulnerability were poo-pood.... hmmmmm..... seems quite like the harsh world out there-- I mistakenly thought a mental health support site was to be compassionate and that the admin would keep those most vulnerable in mind when considering changes.... ....
something positive in this??? well, I learned that there are wolves in sheep clothing even when looking for support and understanding. though I was being careful-- I will be even more vigilent.ps..... I have a strange feeling that this whole thing was an experiment and the "students" are having a hayday with how each of us are reacting, in our differing ways, depending on how we were abused in our way past...... ( maybe a bit paranoid? well, stress/unpredictabilty can bring that out in some of us most fragile beings....)
Posted by Phillipa on November 10, 2009, at 13:10:07
In reply to Re: That's not why. » Nadezda, posted by fleeting flutterby on November 10, 2009, at 10:04:23
It all seemed this time to have started with students. Anyone notice how someone sticks like glue to you then disappears? Now the student did their study and your're useless. Phillipa ps at least I am.
Posted by Sigismund on November 10, 2009, at 15:03:17
In reply to Re: That's not why. » Nadezda, posted by fleeting flutterby on November 10, 2009, at 10:04:23
>I have a strange feeling that this whole thing was an experiment
in which the subjects left, one by one, until there was no one left but those who could not leave.
Posted by okydoky on December 16, 2009, at 18:28:27
In reply to Re: That's not why., posted by Sigismund on November 10, 2009, at 15:03:17
But of course it all an EXPERIMENT.
An unreasonable expectation that interaction with the administrator is anything but part of the EXPERIMENT.
At the beginning of this page:
"Don't necessarily believe everything you hear. Your mileage may vary. The only posts I take responsibility for are my own"
How to interpret responsibility? I am responsible for what I say but not for how you might interpret it.
This is an EXPERIMENT: by design there is deception. RESPONSIBILITY is taken for his own posts.
So he has taken responsibility that his posts could be deceptive. Right?Mr Hsiung acknowledges and had us sign the
"explicit informed consent"
to take part in his RESEARCHRight at the top of the page and we are still indignant.
"What you say may conceivably be used against you. Submitting a message gives me permission to use it as I wish." (I'll get back to this)
From FAQ:
"You may want to think twice about what you post. It's easy to feel safe online and therefore to be open about yourself. That's one of the advantages of online message boards, but don't forget:
What you post is public, as public as if you put it up on an old-fashioned bulletin board in a supermarket. Maybe even more so, since there aren't supermarket bulletin board search engines.
Under certain circumstances, being linked to a post could jeopardize your job or lead to your criminal prosecution. To repeat, what you say could be used against you.
The only way to be completely safe from these risks is to abstain from this activity."
"explicit informed consent"
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/consent.html"This site is not currently considered research. Still, Dr. Bob may publish case studies on his web site or in a book or an academic journal. If he does, he may include example posts. He would do his best to leave out any identifying information in the posts."
This particular part puzzles me. It is ethically unclear to me what is currently going on because of the statement:
" "What you say may conceivably be used against you. Submitting a message gives me permission to use it as I wish."
but I do not pretend to be well informed on such matters.I found an interesting article that informed me a little(but I would have to have a much better understanding make an informed opinion about what I see as inconsistent or has ethics issues above:
http://www.apa.org/science/leadership/bsa/internet/internet-report.pdf
I became interested because of reading all the threads on admin. I guess I am continuing to be part of this RESEARCH, no the good Dr explicitly stated there is no current research going on.
oky
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 17, 2009, at 9:21:17
In reply to Re: That's not why. » Nadezda, posted by fleeting flutterby on November 10, 2009, at 10:04:23
> Certainly if Babble had been more civil, it would have been less fun.
>
> SigismundThat's a good point, and one I should keep in mind. And maybe add to the FAQ: it can be fun to be uncivil, but this isn't the place. Aren't there other ways to have fun?
> I have a strange feeling that this whole thing was an experiment and the "students" are having a hayday with how each of us are reacting, in our differing ways, depending on how we were abused in our way past......
>
> flutterbyWhat if you think of yourself as a student and try to learn from Babble how your current interactions and relationships may be influenced by your past ones?
Bob
Posted by okydoky on December 17, 2009, at 11:42:16
In reply to Re: trying to learn something, posted by Dr. Bob on December 17, 2009, at 9:21:17
> > Certainly if Babble had been more civil, it would have been less fun.
> >
> > Sigismund
>
> That's a good point, and one I should keep in mind. And maybe add to the FAQ: it can be fun to be uncivil, but this isn't the place. Aren't there other ways to have fun?
>
> > I have a strange feeling that this whole thing was an experiment and the "students" are having a hayday with how each of us are reacting, in our differing ways, depending on how we were abused in our way past......
> >
> > flutterby
>
> What if you think of yourself as a student and try to learn from Babble how your current interactions and relationships may be influenced by your past ones?
>
> BobMy two cent for what it's worth I agree concerning all the above.
The cynic in me questions the altruism and motive of the last statement and I Interpret its' reading as OBVUSCATION.
Please do not interpret that as insulting or insensitive. It is how I feel.
"freedom of speech is limited here. It can be therapeutic to express yourself, but this isn't necessarily the place.
Applicable to me at this time?
See: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20091103/msgs/929626.html
Informed me, I already posted a tirade about it.
Thanks Dr Bob for the site. It has been of great value to me *right now as a distraction from my physical pain,...and support from other posters.
Apologies for not being concise and being inarticulate.oky
Posted by Sigismund on December 18, 2009, at 0:51:05
In reply to Re: trying to learn something, posted by Dr. Bob on December 17, 2009, at 9:21:17
Insulting each other isn't fun (of course), but there have been threads an admin where people have said the unsayable and it has been funny, brilliant and very difficult.
>> Certainly if Babble had been more civil, it would have been less fun.
>
> Sigismund>That's a good point, and one I should keep in mind. And maybe add to the FAQ: it can be fun to be uncivil, but this isn't the place. Aren't there other ways to have fun?
Posted by muffled on December 18, 2009, at 13:00:36
In reply to Re: That's not why. An Experiment long!!, posted by okydoky on December 16, 2009, at 18:28:27
http://www.apa.org/science/leadership/bsa/internet/internet-report.pdf
That above made my stomach hurt.
Cuz then I a subject a number not human.
But guess research helps people?
Are the resaearchers evil?
I don't wanna be a bug. But mebbe thats it we all bugs.
Just the way it is.
We just flesh and bone.
Neural networks.
To be used.
I am confused.
I been used. I still here.
But it hurts.
Posted by okydoky on December 18, 2009, at 14:26:50
In reply to confused some :(, posted by muffled on December 18, 2009, at 13:00:36
There are so many questions being asked on admin where no one seems to take into account the entire reason why this site was developed.
If you google "ethics of online research" you will find more articles. I was looking specifically for legislation regarding privacy issues of online research, regarding another thread on admin, but only found ones about privacy online regarding medical issues but nothing specific to research. What I find perplexing is in FAQ it states:
In Copywrite:
"You may therefore submit a message only if you agree to allow me unrestricted use of it. Submitting a message constitutes acceptance of that condition. But you retain the copyright."
This confuses me!
"explicit informed consent"
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/consent.html"This site is not currently considered research. Still, Dr. Bob may publish case studies on his web site or in a book or an academic journal. If he does, he may include example posts. He would do his best to leave out any identifying information in the posts."
It is stated after the consent was given. Is this legal (probably as it would be incomprehensible to me that Bob would not have made sure of this).
What is Legal is not of necessity Ethical.
This particular part puzzles me. It is ethically unclear to me what is currently going on because of the statement:
" "What you say may conceivably be used against you. Submitting a message gives me permission to use it as I wish."
But I do not pretend to be well informed on such matters.Research in many instances can and has been of great value for people with different health issues, saved lives.
One has to always question when doing research online or not if the "mean justifies the end" or do I have if backward "the end justifying the means"?
In this case the potential benefit for the members versus their privacy and probably other issues also.
We are being used. Is it worth it? Especially sine the research is not longer. Is it or does it have the potential to harm us?(recent talk of using Twitter etc.)
I will not expound more you have read that article. It is only one of many.
Perhaps Bob is more altruistic than I am giving him credit for? I don't see it from my reading of the site. But that is my opinion and you might not feel the same, so maybe you need not feel bad at all.
oky
Posted by muffled on December 18, 2009, at 14:46:36
In reply to confused some :(, posted by muffled on December 18, 2009, at 13:00:36
Thx oky.
It hard cuz this site lotta people be used mebbe when little and we just bodies not people so we get problems and that what we trying to fix cuz somehow we wrong and bad and not quite human, how can we be human and still..., how can it be?
But then we try and be , we try and be people and matter.
But bulldozers come and they say they gonna make it better but they runnin over us.crushed. crushed again.we meat, not human.proly, proly it best i can't be here. somes I can, but others not and they be upset.
Thx all.
Posted by okydoky on December 18, 2009, at 18:21:09
In reply to Re: confused some :(, posted by muffled on December 18, 2009, at 14:46:36
I hope you are a real person and I am not some one's experiment.
If not than let it be your shame
What you wrote made me cryYou are someone
Someone that matters because you care
There are good people
Being ill does not make you a bad person
It just makes you a person that is ill
Probably a good person
I feel like no one all the time
I can't anymore
I'm all used up
I won't be on this site anymore
It just makes me feel worse
If that is possible
Take care of yourself
If not for you than for me
You matter to me
I don't want to be any sadder
oky
This is the end of the thread.
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