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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 10 to 34 of 102. Go back in thread:
Posted by Kath on July 6, 2009, at 20:24:42
In reply to Re: Verne's block - 52 weeks? for calling her a troll?, posted by Deneb on July 6, 2009, at 19:56:48
> I am getting triggered all over again. I think Verne should be punished for his actions, just not for so long. Dr. Bob, are you saying you would have rather let his post go unpunished. Is it OK for people to pick on me?
>
> I feel hurt.~ ~ Dear Deneb, I do NOT think it's okay for anyone to pick on anyone & I would certainly feel hurt also. BIGTIME.
luv, Kath
Posted by Zeba on July 6, 2009, at 20:47:22
In reply to I'm sad that this community wasn't able to help..., posted by gobbledygook on July 6, 2009, at 19:33:56
I'm sad Psychobabble is such a punitive site. It could be so much more, but Bob chooses to do things his way in spite of saying people who post have the power; that is simply just not so.
Posted by SLS on July 6, 2009, at 21:19:22
In reply to Re: I'm sad that this community wasn't able to help..., posted by Zeba on July 6, 2009, at 20:47:22
> I'm sad Psychobabble is such a punitive site. It could be so much more, but Bob chooses to do things his way in spite of saying people who post have the power; that is simply just not so.
I find it difficult to intervene and "help" people who do not treat others civilly, which of course would be a subjective judgment on my part to even contemplate doing such a thing. I find it very difficult to negotiate this "helping" thing without being accused of making accusations. The alternative is to force the issue with administration by using their notification procedure. It is a very difficult Catch-22 to want to bother with.
- Scott
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 6, 2009, at 23:35:20
In reply to Blocked » verne, posted by Deputy Dinah on June 16, 2009, at 2:34:31
> You've recently been reminded of site guidelines, so I'm going to have to block you. I'll let Dr. Bob set the length.
I'm sad that this community wasn't able to help you avoid another block, either. According to the formula:
duration of previous block: 52 weeks
period of time since previous block: 18 weeks
severity: 2 (default) 1 (uncivil toward particular individual) = 3
block length = 93.93 rounded = 94 capped = 52 weeksBob
Posted by BayLeaf on July 6, 2009, at 23:35:22
In reply to Re: the length » verne, posted by Dr. Bob on July 6, 2009, at 13:04:07
Posted by Kath on July 6, 2009, at 23:35:23
In reply to Re: the length » verne, posted by Dr. Bob on July 6, 2009, at 13:04:07
> I'm sad that this community wasn't able to help you avoid another block, either.
~ ~ ~ I'm not sure what we could have done? I was extremely upset to read verne's post.
I really don't know what anyone could have done to help verne avoid a block. It was clear that he meant every word he said & I don't think there was any doubt that - well let me just say that, it seemed to me that to put it mildly, he didn't care if he hurt anyone's feelings!
I think if it was a case of someone wording something in a way that might have hurt someone's feelings & if there was some uncertainty....that maybe the poster didn't realize that what he/she said could be taken a hurtful way - well I suppose someone could try to carefully point that out. But in this case, it was pretty clear that that wasn't the case.
I am glad that that behaviour was not tolerated.
Thanks. Kath
Posted by henrietta on July 6, 2009, at 23:35:23
In reply to what to say? » Dr. Bob, posted by Kath on July 6, 2009, at 19:27:56
Verne was trying to get blocked because he felt it unhealthy of him to be here----at least that's my take. He'd been begging to be blocked. He was doing everything he could do to get blocked. It's sad that tptb don't get that. Thinking of you, Verne, and hoping the best for you!!
(By the way, do you know you can't unregister, here?
About 7 or 8 years ago I emailed the good doc politely asking to unregister. He emailed back, "What do you mean by unregister?" It's a life sentence, and you're still counted among Bob's "followers" even if you've been blocked for a year, or even if you feel it's in your mental health best interests to be free of this place. Nice, eh?)So, finally, Verne!!! Congratulations. I think it's cause for celebration for you, and I hope you feel the same.You're free.
Very best wishes, hen
Posted by Phillipa on July 6, 2009, at 23:35:24
In reply to Re: what to say?, posted by henrietta on July 6, 2009, at 20:30:41
In a way what does unregistering mean. What if you just don't post or come to the site? Or change your e-mail address? Phillipa
Posted by SLS on July 6, 2009, at 23:35:24
In reply to Re: what to say?, posted by henrietta on July 6, 2009, at 20:30:41
> Verne was trying to get blocked because he felt it unhealthy of him to be here----
What to say? It was an unfortunate event for Verne. However, it was also an unfortunate event for the object of his caustic words.
If some guy appeared on the boards two days ago and wrote exactly the same post, would you be just as sympathetic?
I think it is good to look at both sides of the equation. Balance. That's the way things are. I understand that Verne has his challenges. He is likable. He was shooting real bullets, though. Unfortunately, some of them hit their mark.
- Scott
Posted by fayeroe on July 6, 2009, at 23:35:25
In reply to Re: the length » verne, posted by Dr. Bob on July 6, 2009, at 13:04:07
> > You've recently been reminded of site guidelines, so I'm going to have to block you. I'll let Dr. Bob set the length.
>
> I'm sad that this community wasn't able to help you avoid another block, either. According to the formula:
>
> duration of previous block: 52 weeks
> period of time since previous block: 18 weeks
> severity: 2 (default) 1 (uncivil toward particular individual) = 3
> block length = 93.93 rounded = 94 capped = 52 weeks
>
> BobThe blame game. How's that working for you, Bob?
Posted by fayeroe on July 6, 2009, at 23:35:26
In reply to Re: the length » Dr. Bob, posted by fayeroe on July 6, 2009, at 22:14:26
> > > You've recently been reminded of site guidelines, so I'm going to have to block you. I'll let Dr. Bob set the length.
> >
> > I'm sad that this community wasn't able to help you avoid another block, either. According to the formula:
> >
> > duration of previous block: 52 weeks
> > period of time since previous block: 18 weeks
> > severity: 2 (default) 1 (uncivil toward particular individual) = 3
> > block length = 93.93 rounded = 94 capped = 52 weeks
> >
> > Bob
>
> The blame game. How's that working for you, Bob?p.s. in no way do i condone Verne's actions.
it bothers me very much for Bob to say that the community didn't keep Verne from being blocked.
there are lots of things that are none of our business. i don't think you will ever understand how boundaries and filters work here. we work to have them and you work to shame us.
>
>
Posted by BayLeaf on July 6, 2009, at 23:39:13
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20090624/msgs/905254.html
Posted by BayLeaf on July 6, 2009, at 23:39:13
In reply to Verne's Block Length = 52 weeks, posted by BayLeaf on July 6, 2009, at 19:01:25
Posted by Kath on July 6, 2009, at 23:39:14
In reply to Verne's Block Length = 52 weeks, posted by BayLeaf on July 6, 2009, at 19:01:25
Dear BL,
If the post had just had one sentence calling someone a troll, that might have been one thing.
If that post had been directed at me, I think I would have felt like I'd been hit by a tsunami (not that I ever have been!)
I personally was very upset by that post & it sure wasn't the 'tone' that I like to encounter here. For the most part, I find the tone of most posts at Babble supportive, kind, caring, - that type of thing.
It jars me like heck when there's what to me seems like a personal attack. That's just my own personal reaction to it.
I'm sorry that you're upset about it, and I am sorry if you're upset by my post. I just had to say how I felt.
Kath
Posted by HyperFocus on July 7, 2009, at 3:11:50
In reply to Re: Verne's Block Length, posted by Kath on July 6, 2009, at 23:39:14
I think I understand what Dr. Bob is saying. There were a lot of posts from before by verne and you could just see where it was going. If somebody had stepped in and just tried to detour him from getting to this point and maybe offered to help him with whatever was troubling him, maybe it would have helped. It was a pretty troubling personal attack but I don't believe that verne really meant what he said. If he had apologized to Deneb and everybody maybe he wouldn't have had to be blocked.
However, that said, a year's ban is draconian and ridiculous. People lean on PB a lot and share a lot of stuff they can't anywhere else.
It should be a month at most.I think that verne was just needing some help. It sucks that now he doesn't have PB to help him.
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 7, 2009, at 3:59:42
In reply to Re: the length » fayeroe, posted by fayeroe on July 6, 2009, at 23:35:26
> I am sincerely puzzled about how we could have helped him avoid a block?
>
> Also, does his 52 week block start from 6/16 or 7/6?
>
> Ava> I did try helping Verne avoid a block.
>
> Doesn't that count?
>
> Deneb> I find it difficult to intervene and "help" people who do not treat others civilly, which of course would be a subjective judgment on my part to even contemplate doing such a thing. I find it very difficult to negotiate this "helping" thing without being accused of making accusations.
>
> - Scott> I'm not sure what we could have done?
>
> KathDeneb, you certainly did try, and that certainly counts. More people trying may or may not have made a difference.
He had been helped to avoid a block before, so that approach might have worked this time, too. Or, I'm sure you all could do better, but just as an example, what about something like:
> > Verne, I'm worried that Dr. Bob isn't going to like what you just posted. I care about you, and you're important to this community. Maybe being blocked doesn't bother you, but would you consider apologizing for my sake? I feel sad and traumatized every time he blocks one of us.
--
> I would have acted immediately, not a month later. I would have given him one month off. And during that month I would have asked the admins (and volunteers?) to keep in touch with him, offering him support and encouragement to stop doing those things which caused the infraction.
>
> bayDid anyone here offer him encouragement to stop doing what had led to his PBC 12 days earlier?
--
> I'm sad Psychobabble is such a punitive site. It could be so much more, but Bob chooses to do things his way in spite of saying people who post have the power; that is simply just not so.
>
> ZebaI agree, it could be much more if posters didn't choose to use their power to post in uncivil ways.
--
> Verne was trying to get blocked because he felt it unhealthy of him to be here----at least that's my take.
>
> henI don't mean to imply that those who thought it was healthier for him to be blocked should've tried to stop him.
--
> it bothers me very much for Bob to say that the community didn't keep Verne from being blocked.
>
> there are lots of things that are none of our business. i don't think you will ever understand how boundaries and filters work here. we work to have them and you work to shame us.
>
> fayeroeIt's none of your business if other posters are blocked?
Bob
Posted by Deneb on July 7, 2009, at 7:23:35
In reply to Re: the length, posted by Dr. Bob on July 7, 2009, at 3:59:42
Hey Verne,
I just realized I got angry and a bit vengeful. 52 weeks is a really long time. I hope you find the support you want. It's hard for me to put myself in other people's shoes.
Posted by gobbledygook on July 7, 2009, at 9:46:18
In reply to Re: the length, posted by Dr. Bob on July 7, 2009, at 3:59:42
> I am sincerely puzzled about how we could have helped him avoid a block?
>
> Also, does his 52 week block start from 6/16 or 7/6?
>
> Ava
He had been helped to avoid a block before, so that approach might have worked this time, too. Or, I'm sure you all could do better, but just as an example, what about something like:> > Verne, I'm worried that Dr. Bob isn't going to like what you just posted. I care about you, and you're important to this community. Maybe being blocked doesn't bother you, but would you consider apologizing for my sake? I feel sad and traumatized every time he blocks one of us.
*******************************************************************************************************************************************
Bob,He was blocked 1 hour and 7 minutes after his posted. I did not see Verne's post until a few days later, and personally, I can't
be here all the time as I'm a mom with real life duties.Are you saying that we should have tried to get him to rephrase/apologize within an hour of his post...before getting blocked?
An hour is not much time...what if he needed to log off from his computer to deal with his real life for the day?I don't recall seeing a post where he was helped to avoid a block (if it's not too much trouble, I'd like to see the link) , but I've
seen babblers get pbc'd and blocked while trying to help...Also, does his 52 week block start from 6/16 or 7/6?
Ava
p.s. I don't hate you...never have.
Posted by fayeroe on July 7, 2009, at 10:45:51
In reply to Re: the length, posted by Dr. Bob on July 7, 2009, at 3:59:42
Bob said: "It's none of your business if other posters are blocked?"
Bob
You read what I said. And if I have learned one thing from watching you block people (1 year! Good grief!) I'm not going to get into any kind of discussion with you about Verne, in particular.
You know that I meant that I am dismayed that you try and shame the community after YOU block someone. I've said it to you before and you also know that. End of discussion.
Posted by rskontos on July 7, 2009, at 12:20:27
In reply to Verne's block - 52 weeks? for calling her a troll?, posted by BayLeaf on July 6, 2009, at 19:05:31
find ourselves in.
Dr. Bob, I too, felt upset when you placed the blame for verne's block on us. It also upset me that you waited the length of time you did. I guess no one used the notify button about the tone of the post to Deneb. I would have been hurt by Verne's remarks, it does sound like attacking to me as well, but I would have been hurt it took you this length of time to notice.
All that said, I do wish you would stop expecting us to help others get blocked or not get blocked, we can't always do that effectively or even know how to get around doing it civilly. I accept you aren't going to get our views on blockings and how the length is just as important as the block itself.
As I see it, the block is too help the person or persons hurt by the block, and to help the blockee not escalate something. How exactly does blocking someone for 52 weeks help us here at babble. And how would you ever expect someone would come back after that when they have to learn to deal without the support of Babble for a year and therefore probably doesn't want to be here anymore.
I think in the case of what seems to be a direct attack, I am not sure of Verne's intent so I will use the word seems, a month block is suitable for helping him get the message and I don't see how anything longer than that helps Deneb since she already forgave him.
rsk
Posted by Phillipa on July 7, 2009, at 12:39:35
In reply to Re: why this is another example of the odds we, posted by rskontos on July 7, 2009, at 12:20:27
How to say this civily is hard. I know of Verne's problem as most do doesn't excuse behavior. What I truly wish is we could somehow get him help. Is there a way? I also didn't see the post till days after it happened yes I post a lot but also do ebay so don't visit all the boards all the time. Phillipa ps I'm hopefully civil. It hurts both parties is my feeling.
Posted by Deputy 10derHeart on July 7, 2009, at 13:06:21
In reply to Re: why this is another example of the odds we, posted by rskontos on July 7, 2009, at 12:20:27
There seems to be some confusion about the timing of he admin action(s) being discussed.
verne's post: June 16, 2009, at 1:27:10
Dinah's block: June 16, 2009, at 2:34:31
This was on the same day. As posters have pointed out, only a little over an hour later.
The only thing that happened quite a while later (20 days) - on July 6 - was Dr. Bob confirming, and posting to the thread on Social where this happened, what the length would be, as well as posting the formula used.
On June 16th, the deputies determined it was appropriate to use a block and did so. The 52 weeks starts from 6/16. We don't like blocks, but are particularly reluctant to use long blocks like one year, even though posting behavior sometimes results in this calculation under the current rules and methods for calculating block length. I am not saying we do or don't believe in long blocks - it's possible each deputy has a somewhat different view on that. In any case, we do enforce Dr. Bob's present civility guidelines to the best of our ability. But as Dinah put in her blocking post, as we customarily do, we ask Dr. Bob set the length. It is his site, and we prefer...nearly insist... he review all blocks to see if he agrees with what deputies chose to do. He did that on 7/6. He can, of course, shorten, lengthen, or remove the block entirely after his review.
I posted this as there was a question about the start date and several comments that action - a block on the same day as the uncivil post - took too long. I understand if people were more trying to say they'd like Dr. Bob to *personally weigh in* on what deputies do sooner. So would we, in that nearly-perfect-world that unfortunately, eludes us. :-( Sometimes he can be here in hours or the same day, sometimes not. This, I think, would be a separate discussion, but for a very long time now we have all had to live with the demands on Dr. Bob's time. It's difficult, but it is reality.
(verne, if you're reading, I'm sorry to talk about posts involving you when you cannot respond. This scenario always makes me uncomfortable, and I avoid it whenever I can. I suppose sometimes, for the benefit of the rest of the community members' support and education, it's a necessary "evil." I wish you well and my Babblemail is always on.)
Posted by Deputy 10derHeart on July 7, 2009, at 13:07:11
In reply to Re: the length » Dr. Bob, posted by gobbledygook on July 7, 2009, at 9:46:18
Posted by gobbledygook on July 7, 2009, at 13:25:58
In reply to it starts from 6/16 (nm) » gobbledygook, posted by Deputy 10derHeart on July 7, 2009, at 13:07:11
Posted by seldomseen on July 7, 2009, at 16:42:33
In reply to Re: what to say?, posted by henrietta on July 6, 2009, at 23:35:23
Personally, I just do not understand the desire to get blocked. If I thought that this site was unhealthy for me I would leave.
I especially do not understand why the desire to get blocked seems to me to be tied to an attack on another poster or Dr. Bob. I just can not wrap my brain around that one. Yet I perceive it as happening a lot. However, my perception may be wrong.
Just seems to me that it would save everyone a lot of grief if people would just exit gracefully and amicably. Then they really could come back anytime they felt ready. Again, I could just be "airbrushing" my memory.
But I guess the question is "should the desire of the poster to be blocked mitigate the steps that he/she took to get there?" My response would be No, it shouldn't. In fact, any such mitigation would be a little counter-intuitive to me.
Seldom.
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