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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ron1953 on September 19, 2008, at 18:39:02
http://www.ourcivilisation.com/pc.htm
...same goes for the civility rules here
Posted by Deputy 10derHeart on September 19, 2008, at 23:09:28
In reply to An Article On Political Correctness, posted by ron1953 on September 19, 2008, at 18:39:02
Please don't use - or link to sites that use - language that could offend others. This includes words that Merriam-Webster OnLine (http://www.merriam-webster.com) considers usually or often disparaging or offensive. There are several of these words contained in the link you posted.
Since you have been asked to follow the civility guidelines of this site (http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil) several times recently, I am going to block you from posting for one week.
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be directed to Psycho-Babble Administration and they should, of course, themselves be civil.
Dr. Bob is always free to override deputy decisions. His email is on the bottom of each page. Please feel free to email him if you believe this decision was made in error.
-- 10derHeart, acting as deputy to Dr. Bob
Posted by Sigismund on September 19, 2008, at 23:20:23
In reply to Blocked for one week » ron1953, posted by Deputy 10derHeart on September 19, 2008, at 23:09:28
Oh dear, I was just starting to feel at home.
Pauline Hansen? She's kinda like Sarah perhaps.
Posted by Toph on September 20, 2008, at 12:54:17
In reply to Blocked for one week » ron1953, posted by Deputy 10derHeart on September 19, 2008, at 23:09:28
Whether you agree with ron and Mr. Atkinson or not, the offensive words listed were necessary examples in the man's argument and were not used gratuitously. I'm afraid you fell into ron's trap here - by banishing him you confirm his assertion.
Posted by Deputy 10derHeart on September 20, 2008, at 15:47:24
In reply to Re: Blocked for one week » Deputy 10derHeart, posted by Toph on September 20, 2008, at 12:54:17
I don't feel trapped :-)
As best I understand the guidelines, it doesn't matter how "language that could offend others" is used in Babble posts. Dr. Bob just asks posters not to use it, based on Merriam-Webster's classification of such words as usually, "vulgar, disparaging, offensive" and so forth.
That's all really. Whether *I* agree with anything written didn't even factor into my administrative action. At all. It never does, or I would be unable to act as a deputy. In fact, I just skimmed the writing, as I was responding to a report from a poster who was concerned about the contents of the link.
That the poster is blocked, I see as a predictable and expected consequence of continuing to choose not to follow the civility guidelines. I know you and likely others, attach other meaning to blocks and warnings here, as is surely your right. I hope ron returns after his block and posts about this or other topics, finding a way to do so within the guidelines.
Posted by Quintal on September 20, 2008, at 17:31:52
In reply to An Article On Political Correctness, posted by ron1953 on September 19, 2008, at 18:39:02
Oh, just look at his biography. It's easy to understand how he came to be where he is.
__________________________________________________
Like all children I wanted to be accepted by my peers and be part of the gang of small boys who lived in the street. They were my heroes, I hung on every word they said, and I did everything I could to win their approval. Their contemptuous treatment of me I accepted as only natural because I was the youngest and weakest. They were tough and clever while I was puny and inexperienced. But one day this all changed. To my delight, a boy who was smaller and younger than me, moved into the street, and I knew that it would only be a matter of time before I could demonstrate my superiority to the newcomer. And when the gang resolved to have a boxing competition, I felt that this was my chance. Previously I would have been omitted from such a competition as being too weak to match in a fight, but now there was a possible partner, and as the gang split up into matched pairs I was pitted against the new boy. And when it was our turn to box, I gently, but firmly, displayed my clear superiority. Alas, when the judges, the oldest boys, declared the result, it was not me, but the new boy, who was deemed the winner. I was stunned.
For some time afterwards I struggled to understand this decision. I knew that I had won the fight, but this was not enough; it was not my stature nor strength but some innate personal quality that condemned me. It was clear that regardless of what I did, I would never win the respect of my peers, so I stopped trying. But I also knew the judges had lied, so to understand their motive I started to look closely at my erstwhile heroes and began to see their undeniable flaws. They were not rational; they had rejected me out of prejudice. While they were all larger than me, I found they only presented a threat as a group. Alone, they not only left me in peace, but seemed a little nervous at my presence. And in games that required strategy, I found it was easy to best them. My esteem for my peers became replaced by contempt, and planted the seed of suspicion in my mind that my whole community was of the same calibre foolish cowards. A notion that experience rarely confounded but often confirmed, so insensibly I became a social exile.
This was just as well, for in a declining community any citizen who retains respect for the truth must become alienated from the majority of his fellow citizens because they hate the truth. Inevitably I could only ever be a social outcast, but being freed from the need to win social approval also meant being freed from social prejudices, and being able to see my community more clearly; a detachment that is essential for any student of society.
As an adult it is easy to understand why the other boys in the street hated me, I was from a different class. My father was an honest, educated man, who didn't smoke or drink, and would never dream of striking his wife, but he was surrounded by drunks, thieves and wife-beaters. Our family enjoyed money, comfort and stability, unlike many of those around us. Not only were we the only family in the street to have a car, but also we were the only family in the whole suburb to have tea on the lawn. Everything about us was different, and we were naturally resented. While the neighbouring adults never confronted my father, their children were delighted to bully his children. My siblings and myself became social half-castes, accepted by no class and despised by all. The result in my case was an initial bitter resentment of my community, along with the traditional notions that I should pursue a university education then a career; so I dropped out of school to take a job as a bus conductor. And to escape this dead-end job, I emigrated, arriving in Australia in 1969, aged 22, with a pregnant wife, two small children, 30 pounds sterling, no job and no qualifications other than an incomplete public school education.
With determination, skill and a little luck I forged a career in computers before being forced into retirement in 1991; a fate that brought as much relief as anxiety. No more salary, little chance of ever getting a job, but no longer having to pretend that the community and its administration were sane. And I was fortunate that my second wife, an Australian by birth, was happy to work so her husband did not, and for the first time in my life I was blessed with leisure. Not only did I not have to toil, but also I did not have to worry about paying the bills, which is another essential qualification for any student of the community.
Of course I could have restarted the education that I abandoned in my teens, but by then the true nature of universities had become obvious; they were no longer centres of learning pursuing truth but centres of profit pursuing customers. Inevitably striving for popularity with youth has made universities bastions of Political Correctness, and full of the kind of people who wanted to burn Galileo for daring to question that the sun circled the earth. So I spent my enforced idleness applying the skills acquired as a system's analyst to discover why my society is disintegrating into delusion and impotence. An effort resulting in a simple theory which outlines the process of communal rise then decline, an explanation that seems to have eluded mankind despite the regular and inevitable cycle that has always been present.
http://www.ourcivilisation.com/author.htm
__________________________________________________
Q
Posted by Toph on September 21, 2008, at 11:56:47
In reply to Re: use of offensive words » Toph, posted by Deputy 10derHeart on September 20, 2008, at 15:47:24
> That the poster is blocked, I see as a predictable and expected consequence of continuing to choose not to follow the civility guidelines.
I don't know ron as you evidently do based on the above assumption that he *chose* to violate the rules, but I would have assumed that maybe he did not know that vulgar words contained in text would not be auto-asterixed or that vulger words in someone else's speech woulf be ascribed to the poster.
>I know you and likely others, attach other meaning to blocks and warnings here, as is surely your right.
I wouldn't presume to know what I or others think, thank you.
Posted by Toph on September 21, 2008, at 12:00:48
In reply to Re: use of offensive words, posted by Toph on September 21, 2008, at 11:56:47
>
> >I know you and likely others, attach other meaning to blocks and warnings here, as is surely your right.
>
> I wouldn't presume to know what I or others think, thank you.lol, you shouldn't presume...
Posted by Deputy 10derHeart on September 22, 2008, at 14:29:16
In reply to Re: use of offensive words, posted by Toph on September 21, 2008, at 11:56:47
> I don't know ron as you evidently do based on the above assumption that he *chose* to violate the rules,I don't know ron. I think of posters as "choosing" how to post, given the civility guidelines here, as an acknowledgment they have free will in this i.e., just because the guidelines aren't followed, doesn't mean they don't know them. It sometimes means they do, and are expressing themselves by the choice not to abide by them. I suppose my view (or assumption, as you say) is strengthened when there are recent PBCs, without any questions posed about what is and isn't okay to post,
>>but I would have assumed that maybe he did not know that vulgar words contained in text would not be auto-asterixed or that vulger words in someone else's speech would be ascribed to the poster.
That could be. As well as the specific language restriction, the FAQ asks posters to be sensitive to the feelings of others, but people could interpret that differently, or think there are certain exceptions. He can Babblemail one of us or email Dr. Bob if that's the case, and we can reconsider the action.
> I wouldn't presume to know what I or others think, thank you.
I'm sorry, Toph. I didn't mean to sound that way. I may have misconstrued what you were saying in your first post about confirming the poster's assertion by banishing him. More the "banishing" part than the confirming part, as I'm not sure what ron was asserting. I don't see blocks as banishment, at least not until we move toward the (extremely rare) year long ones (which I am ambivalent about anyway). For instance, a poster isn't kept from reading posts, reading Babblemails or coming to chat during a block. And when the block is over, they can continue posting.
I also thought I remembered you expressing your opinion about the blocking system here in the past, and that you and I see it differently. Not to start a new discussion (beat a deal horse, maybe? :-) ) but I thought I remembered you oppose blocks completely?
My memory could be way off - if so, I apologize. But that was my thought process in "presuming" you (and others who disagree with blocks) and I attach different meaning to them.
Posted by Toph on September 22, 2008, at 17:38:28
In reply to Re: use of offensive words » Toph, posted by Deputy 10derHeart on September 22, 2008, at 14:29:16
I don't altogether oppose rules designed to preserve order and to protect participants from harm. And unfortunately I have no magic alternative formula for Babble that would balance the desire for an inclusive environment where adults can openly express themselves with the need for rules of order that exclude participants who have difficulty conforming. Mostly I think it is ironic that a mental health support site is frequently unsupportive, punitive, and unfair with some participants. There is a tendency in life to hold individuals of authority, especially those who are judges, in position of enforcement, and people who claim to have moral, religious or ethical expertise under intense if not unjust scrutiny when they fail, are inconsistent or hypocritical. I don't envy your position in this regard. Your impression of my experience here is only partially correct. Early on I was fairly cranky and unruly. Then I became more interested in interacting with others than fighting the system. Now my infrequent objections are whenever something catches my eye, not because I seek out things to complain about. Anyway, I hope you also have other impressions of me TDH.
Posted by ron1953 on November 2, 2008, at 15:13:57
In reply to Blocked for one week » ron1953, posted by Deputy 10derHeart on September 19, 2008, at 23:09:28
I just saw this because I don't visit very often (gee, I wonder why). First of all, they were not my words. Secondly, I find it appalling but not surprising that some quickly focused and reacted to "vulger", "offensive", etc. words instead of analyzing the article itself. Gee, why bother learning anything new, when you already know everything you need to know.
Posted by fayeroe on November 9, 2008, at 14:19:12
In reply to Re: Blocked for one week, posted by ron1953 on November 2, 2008, at 15:13:57
I am aware, from the not so distant past, that sexual words are permitted here. People complained about the words but the jokes continue on. Some of the words are extremely crude and are directed towards women and I, for one, am still puzzled why a mental health site allows that.
I found the link most interesting and I learned something from it. Working in an area where racism thrives, I think I understood the "political correctness" that the author refers to.
I also learned from the author's biography. I appreciate the link. I only found this thread today, Ron1953.
Pat
This is the end of the thread.
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