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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 27, 2006, at 1:14:12
In reply to Re: How to Support and Help » Dr. Bob, posted by SatinDoll on November 26, 2006, at 20:54:27
> > > When you posted on the cancer board, did you have cancer? Do you think that has anything to do with why people became upset there?
>
> I thought that was OK, because I was not saying there was anything wrong with a behavior ... I was trying to help, by asking a question I thought might help clarify the "lesson" from that site.
>
> Is there a way I could have presented that which would have been more appropriate? Or is that something I shouldn't try to express at all?I'm afraid that could have lead Deneb to feel blamed or accused -- of having had something to do with why people became upset. So that may be a "lesson" that isn't appropriate here.
> Of course, I could have said something much more straightforward, like, "No, no one is saying you have to 'suffer in silence' here." Hm...
>
> RacerYes, that would've been more civil. :-)
--
> I truely thought my post WAS civil, and I don't know if the warning was for me directly ... If you know a better way to get my point across without risking myself getting blocked for being honest,while still keeping the message intact, I would like to see it done.
I don't know if gg had you in mind, but for example:
> I had a friend in highschool who used to do things to get attention from others, nothing excluded what she would do, she was ALWAYS sick with some imagined illness and it ruined our friendship because I couldn't continue to play "the game".
could be rephrased as:
> I had a friend in highschool who seemed to like to get attention from others, she was ALWAYS sick with some illness and I couldn't continue our friendship because I got burned out.
Back to you:
> I think it would also helpful if you write something on how to ACCEPT help and support when given, even if it isn't what they want to hear
>
> SatinDollDid anyone ever give you "help and support" that you didn't want to hear? Do you think you should've accepted it? If so, what would've helped you do that?
Thank you both for being interested in feedback,
Bob
Posted by SatinDoll on November 27, 2006, at 6:17:17
In reply to Re: How to Support and Help, posted by Dr. Bob on November 27, 2006, at 1:14:12
Well I guess it seems like I haven't watched Barney enough as a kid.
I guess it seems like I am unable to understand the complex rules to be a "good babble girl". Instead I guess I should used canned responses from Barney.
It seems babble doesn't need my support because It seems I'n not perfect enough in my words, and that seems to be more in important in how I write something, in fact more important than the good intentions of offering support.Goodbye
Posted by Lindenblüte on November 27, 2006, at 7:21:11
In reply to Re: How to Support and Help » Dr. Bob, posted by SatinDoll on November 27, 2006, at 6:17:17
> Well I guess it seems like I haven't watched Barney enough as a kid.
>
> I guess it seems like I am unable to understand the complex rules to be a "good babble girl". Instead I guess I should used canned responses from Barney.
>
> It seems babble doesn't need my support because It seems I'n not perfect enough in my words, and that seems to be more in important in how I write something, in fact more important than the good intentions of offering support.
>
> GoodbyeHey SatinDoll,
I hope you don't leave Babble 'cause of this. You have been so supportive of me, and I would really miss you if you left.
Posted by SatinDoll on November 27, 2006, at 8:55:51
In reply to Re: How to Support and Help, posted by Lindenblüte on November 27, 2006, at 7:21:11
Hi Li,
I am keeping my babblemail open for awhile, and would be happy to exchange emails with the many people who I consider to be friends.
I guess this has been the last straw for me that broke the camels back, I just can't allow myself to be used anymore, it is wasting my time, when I should be doing someting that is more constructive and helpful to people. And I'm not going to risk getting my hand burned for helping. I am just sorry it took me so long to see the real Babble.
Posted by Poet on November 27, 2006, at 10:51:30
In reply to Re: How to Support and Help » Lindenblüte, posted by SatinDoll on November 27, 2006, at 8:55:51
It's very sad that people leave babble because they don't feel their help is welcome.
I have experienced the frustration of offering help and having it ignored. I am trying to perceive it as the person is not ready to receive it, but that's hard.
I have felt manipulated and my response is to stop reading that person's posts. Though it's hard to avoid them as some get lengthy, and I feel like I'm driving past an accident and trying to avoid looking, but stare straight at it.
I do not like to feel manipulated, I do not like to feel that anything I have to say has no merit, I would rather try to ignore someone's post than frustrate myself trying to respond in ways that are not natural for me. I realize that my idea may not work for others as we all communicate in our own ways, but it seems to work for me.
Again, I am saddened that people leave what is supposed to be an online mental health support community because they don't feel welcome. The one common element we all have is some form of mental illness, granted it comes in many different forms, but it's our common ground and lately that ground has been shaking like an earthquake at least on a board I frequent.
Poet
Posted by Dinah on November 27, 2006, at 11:17:18
In reply to Re: How to Support and Help, posted by Poet on November 27, 2006, at 10:51:30
Maybe the point is to keep the big picture in mind. Many people might appreciate what you have to say, and other people just might not be ready to change. No change occurs before its time.
And maybe the real key to "neutrality" is not to invest yourself too deeply in someone else's change or recovery.
It would be a shame for people to leave Babble because they feel unheard, when they really are heard. They are heard and appreciated by any number of people. And even when someone chooses not to take advice, that doesn't mean that the advice isn't heard and appreciated - even if it might feel that way.
This may be one of those CBT moments (gack!). The only person one can truly change is oneself. People can offer the most brilliant advice possible, and it might be accepted as brilliant or it might be dismissed. The advice is the same quality. All you can do is try your best and accept philosophically the result. Instead of being angry, muse to yourself that it just wasn't the time. Recognize that as much as you want to help other people's pain, you can't really. This is an internet forum. There's only so much anyone can do.
So be happy when you reach someone or receive help from someone. And try not to be angry when what you offered isn't accepted. It's still valuable to offer it. To try to help someone is still valuable.
But in a post Mark H wrote a while back, and I can't find at the moment, it's important to realize this isn't a therapy group, and it might not be the best place for "tough love" or an intervention. There's no room for nuances or nonverbal support. It's not a great forum for that. I'm paraphrasing Mark H. a lot, but I thought it was a valuable concept.
And if you're feeling frustrated, it might be best to step away from the computer for a bit and go do something you love to do and makes you happy.
Just my own advice, which may of course be totally ignored. ;)
Posted by ElaineM on November 27, 2006, at 12:16:58
In reply to Re: How to Support and Help, posted by Dinah on November 27, 2006, at 11:17:18
>>>>>And maybe the real key to "neutrality" is not to invest yourself too deeply in someone else's change or recovery.
I think that's good advice. Though I also think it must be stated that not only should accepting or not-accepting advice be respected and understood, but that not wanting to take part at all, or removing oneself at anytime one chooses, be respected and responded to neutraly as well.
>>>>All you can do is try your best and accept philosophically the result. Instead of being angry, muse to yourself that it just wasn't the time.
True, but again, it's also important to avoid getting angry(or whatever else) when the words offered (as long as they've been civil) are not only the ones you'd prefer to hear. I think it's very important to also remember that both communicators in an interaction have equal responsibility in assuming control of themselves, the words they use, the emotions they express and the interpersonal consequences [as applicable in Babble context]. I just think it is important to keep a balance in explaining how to offer words, and also how to recieve them. Cause if both sides aren't treated equally, then the whole processes loses esteem.
>>>>And even when someone chooses not to take advice, that doesn't mean that the advice isn't heard and appreciated - even if it might feel that way.
True. Though for me personally, it's not about advice not being heard or appreciated, it's about how it's responded to in general. Someone can reject words or actions or advice in an equally neutral way. Which, in my opinion, doesn't happen all the time. [if it's required for me to give specific examples that are relevant (just to me personally) and confusing to me, from the thread this orginally came from then I could, but I've left it out for now in favor of the big picture]
>>>>And maybe the real key to "neutrality" is not to invest yourself too deeply in someone else's change or recovery.
I wanted to add "or in other posters response or non-response pattern". That said, I would completely agree and support this idea Dinah.
I just think, in general, the most important thing is for everyone to always see both sides - not just the side that may be interpreted (and I say interpreted, incase PBC's aren't involved) as uncivil, or more uncivil. But of course, not only that side either.
Dinah, I do sincerely appreciate you trying to smooth things out and explain. I always envy your composure and patience :-) I'm sorry others are hurting right now too. Thinking of *all* of you.
Just my own two cents.
blove EL[sorry, i didn't know if I should click the box for you, but I did cause I used quotes from your post, and said your name :) ]
Posted by Dinah on November 27, 2006, at 12:23:42
In reply to Re: How to Support and Help » Dinah, posted by ElaineM on November 27, 2006, at 12:16:58
Both sides of the equation may be true.
But I was speaking to those who felt like they wanted to leave, and phrasing my comments to them.
And giving a general reminder that this might not be the place for tough love, for those who were worried about how to give it while staying in the civility guidelines. It's an enormously tricky thing to do, and should be proceded with cautiously and perhaps with a civility buddy.
Posted by ElaineM on November 27, 2006, at 13:30:02
In reply to Re: How to Support and Help » ElaineM, posted by Dinah on November 27, 2006, at 12:23:42
>>>>But I was speaking to those who felt like they wanted to leave, and phrasing my comments to them.
Fair enough. I guess cause it was admin I just wanted to fit my thoughts in on those comments somewhere. I thought they were relevant to the thread, but I guess not if the post was only to certain people, about something specific. Maybe my own thread? Or one of the other boards? on Social?
Anyways, thanks for letting me know - No harm done. And I wasn't saying any of that stuff to refute anything you were saying, incase it felt that way. I hope I didn't offend you by jumping in.>>>>And giving a general reminder that this might not be the place for tough love, for those who were worried about how to give it while staying in the civility guidelines.
Yes, I guess my post wasn't only about the offering of "tough love". I don't take them back or anything, but I should've fit my words in somewhere more appropriate. Sorry about that (blinded by first-post-to-admin gitters, I guess) ;)
blove, EL
Posted by Dinah on November 27, 2006, at 16:15:38
In reply to Re: How to Support and Help » Dinah, posted by ElaineM on November 27, 2006, at 13:30:02
It was no problem for you putting it there, Elaine.
It's always good to gain perspective on all angles.
This is the end of the thread.
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