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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by deirdrehbrt on February 7, 2006, at 21:30:37
Dr. Bob, or whoever reads this.
I occasionally house sit for another babbler. Both of us have been members of the board for some time. I'm wondering if I use her computer when staying at her house if that will put either one of us at risk for being blocked?
I ask this having read your policy of using another's computer. In this case, both of us are established users, with unique login names, e-mail addresses, and normally use separate computers on different domains. It's just the occasional use when I'm house sitting.
If it is a major problem, I'll refrain from posting while I'm at her house.
Thanks,
--Dee
Posted by Phillipa on February 8, 2006, at 11:18:48
In reply to Question about using another computer., posted by deirdrehbrt on February 7, 2006, at 21:30:37
I don't think you'll like Dr. Bob's answer as the same thing has happened to me. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Shame on February 8, 2006, at 11:50:48
In reply to Re: Question about using another computer. » deirdrehbrt, posted by Phillipa on February 8, 2006, at 11:18:48
> I don't think you'll like Dr. Bob's answer as the same thing has happened to me. Fondly, Phillipa
Are you serious? I post from my work computer as well as my home machine. Is that a problem?
Posted by Phillipa on February 8, 2006, at 11:57:58
In reply to Re: Question about using another computer. » Phillipa, posted by Shame on February 8, 2006, at 11:50:48
No it's when two people post from the same computer or have the same server. See the faq. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Shame on February 8, 2006, at 12:33:30
In reply to Re: Question about using another computer. » Shame, posted by Phillipa on February 8, 2006, at 11:57:58
> No it's when two people post from the same computer or have the same server. See the faq. Fondly, Phillipa
I understand the same two people on the same computer thing, but as far as two people using the same server is concerned... We have 200 people in the building and we all go through the same gateway routed via NAT. Thats the case with many small ISPs and access point home networks. Every computer behind a properly firewalled NAT router will look like the same machine to the outside world. A 'stub' domain like this is much more common than a flat IP address space. If your posting from a NAT routed DHCP network behind a firewall that mirrors its MAC address instead of allowing the client PC to expose theirs, there is no traceablility as far as the outside world is concerned. Thats the way it is supposed to be.
Under these cirumstances, if someone else inside my network posts to dr-bob, then I may get banned? As far as I can see, the FAQ only addresses two people on the same machine. Multiple logins from the same machine can be sorted out via cookies easlily enough, but there is no reliable way to distinguish individuals behind stub domains.
Am I missing something here?
Posted by Phillipa on February 8, 2006, at 12:53:51
In reply to Re: Question about using another computer. » Phillipa, posted by Shame on February 8, 2006, at 12:33:30
Since I know nothing about computers. All I know is that we got a laptop and were using a rooter to connect to alltel so my husband could use the laptop. All I know is Bob said we could not do that. guess we'll have to wait and see if he can explain it better. I'm as confused as your are. Not that he posts to Dr Bob. Only maybe once a year.Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on February 8, 2006, at 13:35:01
In reply to Re: Question about using another computer. » Shame, posted by Phillipa on February 8, 2006, at 12:53:51
Told you I knew nothing about computers it's router. Sorry about that. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on February 8, 2006, at 13:36:02
In reply to Re: Question about using another computer. » Phillipa, posted by Phillipa on February 8, 2006, at 13:35:01
I was just corrected wireless router. Fondly Phillipa again
Posted by deirdrehbrt on February 8, 2006, at 15:00:23
In reply to Re: Question about using another computer., posted by Phillipa on February 8, 2006, at 13:36:02
I see that smaller networks can be a problem too. I wonder if he can track the ethernet address of the machine that's being used, and that might solve the problem of going through a router.
I guess that in my case, the point is that both of the users are already authenticated users with (normally) different addresses. It is apparent that we are distinct if the history is looked at at all.
This does bring up another potential problem. What about those who post from public or cluster computers at colleges or libraries?
I can understand that he wants to keep people from posting with multiple usernames, but prohibiting the use of a single computer, public computers, or different computers behind a firewall seems really limiting, and likely to result in just another problem: multiple users sharing a single username.
Just my 2 cents.
--Dee
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 11, 2006, at 5:41:29
In reply to Question about using another computer., posted by deirdrehbrt on February 7, 2006, at 21:30:37
> both of us ... normally use separate computers on different domains. It's just the occasional use when I'm house sitting.
> If it is a major problem, I'll refrain from posting while I'm at her house.Thanks for asking. I don't want to be *too* rigid, and think my inclination would be not to consider this a major problem. It's always hard to draw the line, even if some line is needed...
Bob
Posted by fairywings on February 15, 2006, at 15:56:31
In reply to Question about using another computer., posted by deirdrehbrt on February 7, 2006, at 21:30:37
Dee,
I'm so jealous that you live near another babbler and are friends! That would be awesome.
And, YOU are so likely to get blocked! LOL Just kidding. I've read your posts, you're always SO kind and thoughtful.
Must be the other one who's notorius! ; )fw
Posted by KID A on February 26, 2006, at 13:45:50
In reply to Question about using another computer., posted by deirdrehbrt on February 7, 2006, at 21:30:37
Multiple users comming from one source ip can also exist say--- if two people in one house happen to use the same service. Say, if two people, a couple, roomates, etc, read the same message board which tracked ip addresses discretely from session information contained in cookies.
In any case, one way to circumvent this is to use remote desktop to connect to whatever service you need to use--- (most services don't put these restrictions on users based on ip addresses since an ip address is seen as a fairly limited and narrow resource to track)... It's not ideal, you are essentially using your machine as an intermediary rather than connecting directly, which isn't optimal in any sitatuion--- still as this message proves, it's certainly possible.
Good luck.
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 28, 2006, at 1:06:57
In reply to Re: Question about using another computer. » deirdrehbrt, posted by KID A on February 26, 2006, at 13:45:50
> Multiple users comming from one source ip can also exist say--- if two people in one house happen to use the same service. Say, if two people, a couple, roomates, etc, read the same message board which tracked ip addresses discretely from session information contained in cookies.
I agree, it's not a perfect system. I've discussed this some with the deputies, and we're open to trying something different.
What if there could be up to two posters per computer (connection) if (1) they posted here that they were doing that and (2) they agreed that if either of them were blocked, the other would be, too?
Bob
Posted by KID A on February 28, 2006, at 15:05:03
In reply to Re: Question about using another computer., posted by Dr. Bob on February 28, 2006, at 1:06:57
> I agree, it's not a perfect system. I've discussed this some with the deputies, and we're open to trying something different.
>
> What if there could be up to two posters per computer (connection) if (1) they posted here that they were doing that and (2) they agreed that if either of them were blocked, the other would be, too?There are a number of issues, of course; though usually, a good design exposes 'good' characteristics naturally.
You can think of the problem as one of identity. No matter how complex you make the identity tracking, it goes out the window when there are two physical people competing for access on one ip--- you can have a really secure idenity system that can be comprimised quickly by two people in the same room colaborating.
What you are preposing as far as IP blocking isn't that uncommon on certain 'service-like' systems... If I use an IP address to access a site with weak identity, which then gets blocked, I should assume that no user using my IP should be able to access that site.
The situation is unique here because the system DOES deal with user's actions and the need for punishment, (blocks), so your inability to enforce a block requires that you be more stringent in how you actually block a user.
The idea that you propose seems to be about as close as you will get without simply ignoring IP all together.
You have to decide which is more prevalent, duplicitous 'good' users, or duplicitous 'bad' ones.
ps. Coincidentally, the method I described, and am using now to post to this thread is probably outside a level of convenience that a casual user would bother with.
Posted by Phillipa on February 28, 2006, at 18:17:14
In reply to Re: Question about using another computer., posted by KID A on February 28, 2006, at 15:05:03
In our case we have two computers in different rooms. I use one and my husband uses the other. But we have a land line so we use the same server but not the same computer. It would be way too expensive to have two servers. Fondly, Phillipa
This is the end of the thread.
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