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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by alexandra_k on October 31, 2004, at 15:12:57
A while ago I suggested that Dr. Bob explains what he finds to be uncivil about someones post when he gives the PBC so that people understand that. I made that suggestion becuase I noticed a few threads where establishing that seemed to be a drawn out process.
Now what I would like to see is a request for clarification BEFORE a PBC is given on posts where it is likely that there is an explanation that could clear the matter up (as opposed to more straight foward cases of abuse). Asking someone to rephrase is much nicer than receiving a PBC, and so perhaps more PBC's could become requests for rephrasing also (assuming clarification doesn't assist).
I say this because I have to honestly say that I have tried my best to be supportive here, but have received 1 request to rephrase, and 2 PBC's. I am starting to feel like my best isn't up to the standards of this board. It hurts to get PBC's.
Just trying to make the process more supportive...
Posted by alexandra_k on October 31, 2004, at 19:43:43
In reply to PBC's and Clarification., posted by alexandra_k on October 31, 2004, at 15:12:57
A while back I posted this (which you did not respond to).
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20041012/msgs/407274.html
It wasn't just a rhetorical device, I was seeking clarification.
In my opinion when someone is expressing their feelings or opinions AS their feelings or opinions then that is fine. If others are hurt or feel accused as a result of this then they need to realise that that is their issue.
When someone is saying they feel that way in response to something someone has done then that may well depend. Here clarifications could be useful. Or requests to rephrase.
When someone makes a (negative) factual claim about another then PBC's are appropriate.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Not sure whether my way of carving the situation up is adequate or not.. Don't know too much about attribution theory etc. But I like the above, and think that it would add a bit more clarity to the civility limits. Currently I am struggling to find an order to what is increasingly seeming like chaos to me (NOTE: THAT IS IN MY OPINION). I am starting to feel a bit 'paranoid' about civility warnings. And I am starting to feel like I can't trust my own judgement on this.
Regards.
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 1, 2004, at 3:15:57
In reply to Request for clarification, posted by alexandra_k on October 31, 2004, at 19:43:43
> Asking someone to rephrase is much nicer than receiving a PBC
Hmm, I think of it as asking more...
> I say this because I have to honestly say that I have tried my best to be supportive here, but have received 1 request to rephrase, and 2 PBC's. I am starting to feel like my best isn't up to the standards of this board. It hurts to get PBC's.
I'm sorry you've been hurt, but this isn't always easy to do. Have you considered asking someone to be your "civility buddy"?
> A while back I posted this (which you did not respond to).
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20041012/msgs/407274.htmlSorry about that:
> So, to summarise the situation: We are not allowed to say 'I feel _____' where the underscored word is a 'negative emotion' and the phrase occurs in the context of ones response to something that someone else has done, or to another person...
I'm not sure it would help to approach that way...
> We are not allowed to express how we feel.
Not if it could lead others to feel accused or put down.
> I thought it was all about phrasing it in a way that is not unduly hurtful or accusitory to another.
How about not hurtful or accusatory at all? Have you seen Dinah's post about phrasing?
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20040112/msgs/320097.html
Bob
Posted by alexandra_k on November 4, 2004, at 2:12:02
In reply to Re: Request for clarification, posted by Dr. Bob on November 1, 2004, at 3:15:57
I guess that asking someone to rephrase is asking more than just giving them a PBC because in order to rephrase they need to understand what the issue is in order to reword it appropriately. I guess that I figured that was nicer because then the message is 'what you had to say was ok, but you could have phrased it better' rather than 'don't say that again'. Requiring a rephrasing also provides an opportunity for learning that one doesn't get with a PBC, especially if one doesn't really understand what the problem is.
I guess I am always trying to find the general rule that applies to all cases and determines all future ones; but those are hard to come by. I am still a bit confused about this though:
>> We are not allowed to express how we feel.
> Not if it could lead others to feel accused or put down.But I don't see how expressing ones feelings should lead to another feeling accused or put down. I mean, I have done a lot of therapy around labeling my feelings, and learning that feelings are feelings not facts, and learning that I am not responsible for other peoples reactions to my feelings. I guess that when it comes to someone expressing their feelings as their feelings I still don't see how that can be uncivil.
Dinah's post was good, and it got me thinking more about context and stuff. I guess I was just worried about my PBC's resulting in a cumulative block. If I got blocked and didn't understand why, well if it ever came to that I would rethink my participation here. But I have to trust that it won't come to that.I guess that I am just going to keep searching for a pattern...
And trust there is a method...
And keep doing my best. Thats all we can do.
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 4, 2004, at 9:15:03
In reply to Re: Request for clarification » Dr. Bob, posted by alexandra_k on November 4, 2004, at 2:12:02
> Requiring a rephrasing also provides an opportunity for learning that one doesn't get with a PBC, especially if one doesn't really understand what the problem is.
A PBC also provides such an opportunity, it's just an optional one.
> > > We are not allowed to express how we feel.
>
> > Not if it could lead others to feel accused or put down.
>
> But I don't see how expressing ones feelings should lead to another feeling accused or put down.What if someone said they felt disgusted by something someone else said?
> I guess that I am just going to keep searching for a pattern...
>
> And trust there is a method...
>
> And keep doing my best. Thats all we can do.Thanks, that's all I can ask. :-)
Bob
Posted by alexandra_k on November 4, 2004, at 14:29:02
In reply to Re: Request for clarification, posted by Dr. Bob on November 4, 2004, at 9:15:03
> What if someone said they felt disgusted by something someone else said?
Hmm. I guess that I think there is a world of difference between saying 'I felt disgusted in response to your post' and 'your post was disgusting'. While the first may hurt someone I think that the person who is hurt should think about what they might have said to prompt such a response and they should try to not take it too personally because we are not responsible for anothers responses at the end of the day.
Maybe the problem is that I have been taught all this stuff around expressing my emotions because I never would express them. Maybe now I need to learn that there are appropriate times and places for that and there is also a world of difference between a tactful honest response and a hurtful honest response.
I think I am starting to see what you mean on this.
I will think about this more...Thanks.
This is the end of the thread.
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