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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by shar on June 25, 2003, at 1:37:49
Haven't we had a guideline in effect for a while where people who talk about methods of suicide have their posts deleted?
Is this a gray area with what Sphinx is saying? That she was just testing? What about triggers? What if I take a razor to only one wrist in order to test the technique?
There is something not right about the thread, especially after Sar's sad and untimely death, and she used to do the "testing" thing, too.
Or, am I really off base?
It appears that someone called in some authorities to see if sphinx was ok, which resulted in a death threat to someone here (I assume it's here). If we take suicidal threats somewhat seriously, we should also take threats of homicide at least as seriously.
I'm sorry sphinx is in such pain, and is not contacting anybody that can help her (apparently). I don't see how the support we can give her will surpass that of a face-to-face encounter.
Shar
Posted by zenhussy on June 25, 2003, at 2:25:39
In reply to What about the don't talk techniques guideline?, posted by shar on June 25, 2003, at 1:37:49
too tired to respond more here but typed somethinng to you over on PSB.
I don't see a.v.l.s.'s anger as being a true 'death threat' but rather pain and anger at her situation.
I don't think you're way off base but I also see this from another angle (see post on PSB)
hopefully on non-crashing pc tomorrow because if I have to fight this damn thing for two hours just to pop out a post or two *I'm* going to be the one making death threats to this cursed pc!!
still weepy and tired,
zh
Posted by zenhussy on June 25, 2003, at 2:31:16
In reply to What about the don't talk techniques guideline?, posted by shar on June 25, 2003, at 1:37:49
"What if I take a razor to only one wrist in order to test the technique?"
Shar,
I don't see this as being very differnt from posters who are comfoortable enough to discuss their SI'ing (self injuring--I think on PPB there is a link to crystal palace that describes SI in great detail---good site) on this board.
Many will be triggered by reading about people who utilize razors as a coping mechanism but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be allowed to discuss parts of their illnesses.
Maybe I'm too dang tired to be getting what you're saying but I hope I'm making a bit of sense here.
again, with respect,
zh
Posted by stjames on June 25, 2003, at 10:19:25
In reply to how is this different from SI discussions?, posted by zenhussy on June 25, 2003, at 2:31:16
> "What if I take a razor to only one wrist in order to test the technique?"
>
> Shar,
>
> I don't see this as being very differnt from posters who are comfoortable enough to discuss their SI'ing (self injuring--I think on PPB there is a link to crystal palace that describes SI in great detail---good site) on this board.
The intent of SI is not to kill ones self. So far, people who SI and post about it are actually
doing SI it would seem. The SI people want help, based on thier posts. The people who post about suicide seem not to want help or are faking. At least based on the history of this board and others, if one calls the police or takes other actions the person considering suicide gets mad and often stops posting. Or they were faking to "stur things up" or as of late were just drunk.
Posted by shar on June 25, 2003, at 11:28:10
In reply to What about the don't talk techniques guideline?, posted by shar on June 25, 2003, at 1:37:49
I don't know that much about self-injury, except when people say SI I think of suicidal ideation, so have been very confused at times reading posts.
But, seriously, I thought we did have a guideline that said don't detail suicide methods. I think one reason was the trigger part, plus I think it was to not give people 'how to' ideas. We used to have people that went into a fair amount of detail about either what they'd actually done, or the more technical side of doing it.
It IS a fine line between saying I want to, I'm going to, I tested my noose last night....it is just a gut feeling that PSB is not the place to be talking about the latter.
Only my opinion, just thought I'd ask about the guidelines.
Shar
Posted by Greg on June 25, 2003, at 11:39:15
In reply to It's just my opinion, posted by shar on June 25, 2003, at 11:28:10
> Only my opinion, just thought I'd ask about the guidelines.
>
> SharAnd I'm glad you asked Shar. I had the same understanding of what's acceptable and what isn't. I'd like it cleared up too.
Greg
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 25, 2003, at 12:11:46
In reply to It's just my opinion, posted by shar on June 25, 2003, at 11:28:10
> If we take suicidal threats somewhat seriously, we should also take threats of homicide at least as seriously.
>
> SharYes, that's more clear-cut.
> Many will be triggered by reading about people who utilize razors as a coping mechanism but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be allowed to discuss parts of their illnesses.
>
> zh> I thought we did have a guideline that said don't detail suicide methods. I think one reason was the trigger part, plus I think it was to not give people 'how to' ideas. We used to have people that went into a fair amount of detail about either what they'd actually done, or the more technical side of doing it.
>
> SharThat is in fact a guideline, but my rationale was the latter, not to give people how-to ideas. And I assume people already know that hanging and razors are potential methods. It's hard to know where to draw the line sometimes, and I'd be interested in more input from you all, but for now, anyway, I'm inclined to allow them to be brought up.
Bob
Posted by stjames on June 25, 2003, at 16:53:26
In reply to It's just my opinion, posted by shar on June 25, 2003, at 11:28:10
> I don't know that much about self-injury, except when people say SI I think of suicidal ideation, so have been very confused at times reading posts.
Ah ! Intresting point. SI to me means Self Injury,
but I can see how one could think it was also
suicidal ideation
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 25, 2003, at 18:10:45
In reply to What about the don't talk techniques guideline?, posted by shar on June 25, 2003, at 1:37:49
[Posted by paxvox on June 25, 2003, at 17:43:48
In reply to http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20030617/msgs/236958.html]
> Gesse Dr, Bob, I KNOW that you have your requirements about civility, but I think blocking
> AVLS will only shut out the very few life-lines that person has available. I KNOW it was a tough call for you to make, but I know a little more about this situation and this person than I can post here. Is there any chance for a reprieve here after maybe a day or two for the dust to settle? Just my two cents.
>
> PAX
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 25, 2003, at 18:21:37
In reply to Re: blocked for 2 weeks « paxvox, posted by Dr. Bob on June 25, 2003, at 18:10:45
> I KNOW that you have your requirements about civility, but I think blocking AVLS will only shut out the very few life-lines that person has available.
It may shut out some, but people can still post *to* that person, people may be in touch with that person by other means, and that person may also be getting help in person.
> I KNOW it was a tough call for you to make, but I know a little more about this situation and this person than I can post here. Is there any chance for a reprieve here after maybe a day or two for the dust to settle?
Never say never, but I wouldn't hold my breath. If you think it might make a difference, you can always email me instead of posting...
Bob
Posted by shar on June 25, 2003, at 20:05:13
In reply to Re: blocked for 2 weeks « paxvox, posted by Dr. Bob on June 25, 2003, at 18:10:45
>but I know a little more about this situation and this person than I can post here.
There seem to be others here that know Sphinx personally as well. I hope you all will be able to keep an eye on Sphinx if she has to stay away 2 weeks. She, in my opinion, needs face-to-face help if what she is posting is factual.
It didn't seem that she (actually, I'm just assuming "she") was getting much help here as her posts just seemed to get more and more serious about doing herself in. I think venting is good, and psb is a good forum, but Sphinx seemed beyond the venting stage, and in crisis, and needing human, hands-on help. I sure hope she will take advantage of the hospital option, if that's the only option she has. I truly believe we cannot do anything here except possibly prolong the time she chooses NOT to get the help that is available to her...and by then she (and, we, indirectly) may have waited too long.
It is a real conundrum.
Shar
Posted by whiterabbit on June 26, 2003, at 0:20:45
In reply to Re: tough call, posted by Dr. Bob on June 25, 2003, at 18:21:37
Some things to consider-
I have no doubt that AVLS has serious suicidal intentions. I think it's quite common to threaten suicide for a period of time as a means of "testing the water" - once you progress from contemplating suicide to actually voicing the idea
you've crossed a threshold; the unspeakable has been put into words.With that said, from time to time it's necessary to consider the welfare of all posters over the one. PSB is not a suicide hotline staffed with trained counselors who can determine a suicidal crisis with some objectivity and send immediate help. While the rest of us have much to offer in the way of emotional support, most if not all of us are struggling with serious and painful issues of our own. We have little reserve for dealing with something as heavy as prolonged suicidal threats, inferred or otherwise. A poster "warming up" for the act itself by writing of suicide - either (rarely) in a straightforward manner or in mystical, poetic terms meant to romanticize an ugly and tragic event - this poster is causing havoc across the board and taking a dreadful emotional toll on the other posters who feel helpless to stop the downhill slide. Worse, these self-destructive thoughts can be a trigger to those on the edge.
For this reason it's necessary to delete posts threatning suicide and block posters who persist
in writing, inferred or not, about their wish to die. This is a tough call but, having been there myself, I'm pretty sure of one thing:By the time a person has determined there is no alternative to suicide, they are past the point of being dissuaded at the last minute by any post, no matter how heartfelt or meaningful, from others on PSB. When suicide is imminent that person needs immediate, real-life intervention -
whether they like it or not. And usually they won't.I didn't like it either. But if that person is in so much emotional pain they become bent on self-destruction, then he or she is no longer the best judge of what the next critical step should be.
-Gracie
Posted by shar on June 26, 2003, at 1:16:50
In reply to Re: tough call, posted by whiterabbit on June 26, 2003, at 0:20:45
I'm thankful to have you give your perspective on this issue.
Shar
Posted by whiterabbit on June 26, 2003, at 9:01:56
In reply to thanks, WR, posted by shar on June 26, 2003, at 1:16:50
Guess I had some time to think on things like that while I was up there at the nervous hospital.
-G
Posted by stjames on June 26, 2003, at 10:24:02
In reply to Re: tough call, posted by whiterabbit on June 26, 2003, at 0:20:45
You expressed my view points on this issue to a T.
(And were civil, too !)
Posted by justyourlaugh on June 26, 2003, at 23:05:54
In reply to Re: It's just my opinion, posted by Dr. Bob on June 25, 2003, at 12:11:46
i have always posted "trigger" in my subject line if i intended to be graphic..
very quickly we can reconize a posters name of which we descide not to read or post.
even the finest of silk has a little snag..
j
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