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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by beardedlady on July 18, 2002, at 12:58:36
< Please don't post anything that others could take as accusatory or put them down.
This is an awkward sentence, and it needs some fixing. Here are a couple of suggestions:
Please don't post anything that others could take as an accusation or an insult.
Please don't post anything that others could take as an accusation or a put-down.I dislike the sentence for another reason, however, which is this: It's impossible to know what someone else will take as an accusation or an insult. Some people are wired to see things in a negative way and may take offense at something inoffensive. (You know some people are asking right now if I am "accusing" them of being wired this way, but this post has nothing to do with any specific person on the board! It's often hard to tell how some people will respond.)
Most people know when they're accusing or insulting someone else. Asking them to predict how someone with a different agenda may see it is unfair.
So here is a better suggestion:
Please don't post accusations or insults.Or this:
Please don't post accusations or insults. If you are in doubt, don't post it.beardy
Posted by tina on July 18, 2002, at 14:26:13
In reply to Please don't post anything... » Dr. Bob, posted by beardedlady on July 18, 2002, at 12:58:36
You are very wise oh bearded one. :)
Posted by tabitha on July 18, 2002, at 15:21:30
In reply to Please don't post anything... » Dr. Bob, posted by beardedlady on July 18, 2002, at 12:58:36
>Or this:
Please don't post accusations or insults. If you are in doubt, don't post it.I like that last version best. Simple and to the point.
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 19, 2002, at 10:46:04
In reply to Please don't post anything... » Dr. Bob, posted by beardedlady on July 18, 2002, at 12:58:36
> > Please don't post anything that others could take as accusatory or put them down.
>
> This is an awkward sentence, and it needs some fixing. Here are a couple of suggestions:
>
> Please don't post anything that others could take as an accusation or an insult.
> Please don't post anything that others could take as an accusation or a put-down.Thanks for your input, if there's anything I can do to try to make things more clear, that would be great. First, that sentence came from the longer one in the FAQ:
> > Please don't be sarcastic, joke about death or suicide, suggest that anyone harm themselves or others, jump to conclusions about others or their experiences, post anything that others could take as accusatory, put others down, put pressure on others, use language that might offend others, exaggerate or overgeneralize -- et cetera.
> > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil> I dislike the sentence for another reason, however, which is this: It's impossible to know what someone else will take as an accusation or an insult...
I realize that, and that's why it's "could" instead of "will".
> Most people know when they're accusing or insulting someone else...
>
> So here is a better suggestion:
> Please don't post accusations or insults.
>
> Or this:
> Please don't post accusations or insults. If you are in doubt, don't post it.The thing is, it's subjective. Maybe the poster doesn't intend to accuse, but someone nevertheless feels accused. Should that count as an accusation or not? This way, it's more wordy and maybe more awkward, but IMO it's more clear, too.
Bob
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 19, 2002, at 11:44:08
In reply to Please don't post anything... » Dr. Bob, posted by beardedlady on July 18, 2002, at 12:58:36
BDLY, Dr. Bob, Tina, Tabitha, others..
My reccommendation would be to ammend the warning to:
" Please do not post anything that has been determined previously to be offensive, accusitive, unsuppotive, sarcastic,etc. etc...Please referr to the list of past posts that have been determined as such."(so a list will have to be created in order for this suggestion to be implamented.
Now if a list was avialable of past blocks, then that would suffice. I know that someone could do their own search of blocks, but that,IMO, is asking too much of, let's say, a new poster.
Now I base this sugeestion on the writings of Thomas Jefferson and John Adams, who formulated the ammendments to the U.S. Constitution. It is the spirit of "equal protection and the right to due-process" that I base my suggestion on. Law is based on "past practice" unless otherwise ammended.
ou
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 19, 2002, at 11:54:47
In reply to Lou's respose to this thread » beardedlady, posted by Lou Pilder on July 19, 2002, at 11:44:08
Friends,
The list could have the following sections:
Article 1...No poster shall tell another poster what they think of them, unless it is complimentary. See examples of previous blocks.
Article 2...No poster shall tell another poster to leave the board. See examples ....
Article 3... No poster shall post degrading epithets.See examples...
Article 4... You give some more examples that you would see to be appropriate
Lou
Posted by Dinah on July 19, 2002, at 12:11:37
In reply to Lou's respose to this thread.The list-par 2, posted by Lou Pilder on July 19, 2002, at 11:54:47
I do think the people who are complaining have a valid point. I never see any difficulty figuring out your civility rules, because I think we have similar views on what civility entails. But it is a subjective sort of thing in a way. (As much as my usual black and white thinking shouts - It is not subjective!, I'm trying to overcome that.)
So how about a section similar to the tips section. Something that deals with the sort of frustrations that often come up in a group situation of this sort, along with positive, acceptable, and not-acceptable ways of answering. That would give people a better idea of what standards they are expected to adhere to.
Just a thought.
Posted by beardedlady on July 19, 2002, at 18:13:15
In reply to Re: Please don't post anything..., posted by Dr. Bob on July 19, 2002, at 10:46:04
Whether it's part of a longer FAQ sentence or not, it's still grammatically awkward. The longer sentence is not parallel, either, and it contains an error in pronoun/antecedent agreement.
> > > Please don't be sarcastic, joke about death or suicide, suggest that ANYONE harm THEMSELVES or others, jump to conclusions about others or their experiences, post anything that others could take as accusatory, put others down, put pressure on others, use language that might offend others, exaggerate or overgeneralize -- et cetera.
Your sentence should say:
Please don't be sarcastic, joke about death or suicide, suggest that anyone harm himself or others, jump to conclusions about others or their experiences, pressure others, exaggerate or overgeneralize, use language that might offend others, or post anything that others could take as an accusation or an insult.Each lead word in a list must be the same part of speech: a verb if you start with a verb or a noun if you start with a noun.
> I realize that, and that's why it's "could" instead of "will."
Could is worse than will. Anything COULD. But it's obvious when something WILL.
But now that I know the whole statement, it's a pretty moot point anyway. Don't exaggerate or overgeneralize? My goodness.
I caught a fish this big.
beardy
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 21, 2002, at 22:55:10
In reply to Error in parallel construction » Dr. Bob, posted by beardedlady on July 19, 2002, at 18:13:15
> The longer sentence is not parallel, either, and it contains an error in pronoun/antecedent agreement.
>
> > Please don't be sarcastic, joke about death or suicide, suggest that ANYONE harm THEMSELVES or others, jump to conclusions about others or their experiences, post anything that others could take as accusatory, put others down, put pressure on others, use language that might offend others, exaggerate or overgeneralize -- et cetera.
>
> Your sentence should say:
> Please don't be sarcastic, joke about death or suicide, suggest that anyone harm himself or others, jump to conclusions about others or their experiences, pressure others, exaggerate or overgeneralize, use language that might offend others, or post anything that others could take as an accusation or an insult.
>
> Each lead word in a list must be the same part of speech: a verb if you start with a verb or a noun if you start with a noun.Thanks for the suggestions. Aren't all the lead words already verbs?
I agree with you about "themselves", sometimes I use that as shorthand for "himself or herself". I'll just make it all plural...
I like "pressure others" better, too.
IMO, putting others down is a little more general than insulting them, so I'd prefer to leave it that way.
I included the "et cetera" to make it clear this wasn't an exhaustive list.
The order and "accusatory" vs. "accusation" are just a matter of preference and not "errors", right?
Bob
Posted by beardedlady on July 22, 2002, at 5:31:15
In reply to Re: parallel construction, posted by Dr. Bob on July 21, 2002, at 22:55:10
Dr. Bob:
Great.
> Aren't all the lead words already verbs?
Yes, but when you shorten the segments, you have a weird thing happening: "Please don't post anything that others could take as accusatory or put them down." It's simply awkward, as it has too many verbs and an extra pronoun. The word "post" should have been the sentence's verb, and the others should be nouns: "Please don't post anything others could take as accusations or put-downs." Otherwise, the second part of the admonishment means: "Don't post anything that others could take as put them down."
> IMO, putting others down is a little more general than insulting them, so I'd prefer to leave it that way.
Okey dokey.
> I included the "et cetera" to make it clear this wasn't an exhaustive list.
Okey dokey once again.
> The order and "accusatory" vs. "accusation" are just a matter of preference and not "errors", right?
Sort of. But accusatory is an adjective, and accusation is a noun. No noun follows the adjective, so it looks like it's dangling there. In addition, since put-down is a noun, the other should be too. That's also parallel construction.
Here's your sentence now:
Please don't be sarcastic, joke about death or suicide, suggest that others harm themselves or someone else, jump to conclusions about others or their experiences, pressure others, exaggerate or overgeneralize, use language that might offend others, or post anything that others could take as an accusation or a put-down, etc.
What do you think? A good edit, I'd say.
beardy
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 23, 2002, at 11:42:25
In reply to A good edit. » Dr. Bob, posted by beardedlady on July 22, 2002, at 5:31:15
> > The order and "accusatory" vs. "accusation" are just a matter of preference and not "errors", right?
>
> Sort of. But accusatory is an adjective, and accusation is a noun. No noun follows the adjective, so it looks like it's dangling there.But you can say "write something that others will find memorable", right?
> Please don't be sarcastic, joke about death or suicide, suggest that others harm themselves or someone else, jump to conclusions about others or their experiences, pressure others, exaggerate or overgeneralize, use language that might offend others, or post anything that others could take as an accusation or a put-down, etc.
How about:
Please don't be sarcastic, joke about death or suicide, suggest that others harm themselves or others, jump to conclusions about others or their experiences, post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down, pressure others, use language that could offend others, exaggerate or overgeneralize -- et cetera.
Bob
Posted by beardedlady on July 23, 2002, at 13:03:06
In reply to Re: A good edit., posted by Dr. Bob on July 23, 2002, at 11:42:25
This is the end of the thread.
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