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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by NikkiT2 on August 21, 2001, at 14:36:00
I'm really concerned that SalArmy4me is still posting messages on how to obtain non-prescription drugs from abroad.
As i staed in my post to him, this is a mental health board,a nd we are often not in a position to make sensible decisions regading our medication. Also, self medication is dangerous alone, as you are not being monitered... What if I were to order lithium as my pdoc won't prescribe, and was not monitored for any of the problems associated with it.
I know this has been bought up before, but a) do you condone this, and b) if not, have you ever given Sal a warning?
Thanks
Nikki
Posted by shelliR on August 21, 2001, at 19:04:09
In reply to Dr Bob - I'm concerned., posted by NikkiT2 on August 21, 2001, at 14:36:00
> I'm really concerned that SalArmy4me is still posting messages on how to obtain non-prescription drugs from abroad.
>
> As i staed in my post to him, this is a mental health board,a nd we are often not in a position to make sensible decisions > > > >regading our medication.
Actually participating on this board often helps put us a position to make more sensible decisions regarding our medication.
This is not a board of actively psychotic participants (you may have noticed that.) To state that those who participate in a mental health forum are less capable than others of making sensible decisions is highly prejudicial and insulting.< Also, self medication is dangerous alone, as you are not being monitered... What if I were to order lithium as my pdoc won't < prescribe, and was not monitored for any of the problems associated with it. >
Self-medication is generally not the best way to go, I'll agree. Sometimes, however, there are extenuating circumstances. The fact that a drug is available in one country and not in another can in some cases be directly tied to profits expected by large drug companies. It costs a huge amount of money to go through getting FDA approval and many times companies just decide it's not worth it in terms of potential profits. In other cases, our drug approval system really does provide us with more safety. Often also, it is cheaper to buy drugs online than at a pharmacy if you don't have insurance coverage for medications.
>
> I know this has been bought up before, but a) do you condone this, and b) if not, have you ever given Sal a warning?>
Nikki, ever since I've been participating on this board, people have been giving out information to others on how to get drugs that are not available in the country where they live, or not available from the doctors that they see. So I'm not quite sure why Sal is being singled out by you. For a while when I first came to the board, the "hot" item was adrafinil and that is not available in the states. There was often discussion on which sites were the most reliable to get that drug, and which sites were the most reasonable pricewise. Last week I gave out a url to someone to order buprenorphine, which he was already taking when he lived in France, but could not get in the states.So why Sal and why now?
Shelli
Posted by Cam W. on August 22, 2001, at 0:10:21
In reply to Re: Dr Bob - I'm concerned. » NikkiT2, posted by shelliR on August 21, 2001, at 19:04:09
Shelli - I have spoken out about posters in the past ordering drugs from overseas, without a prescription; so have several respected posters. I do not read all of the posts and had missed yours, or I may have commented.
I'm sorry, but the potential of a criminal record is real and the chance that a medication that may or may not help (or harm) you is also real. If one is willing to take that risk, that is fine, but Sal is saying to people, "You can order from overseas without a prescription, I did." These people may not realize the potential consequences of their actions until it is too late.
Health Canada clamped down on the importation of overseas meds a few years ago, while the FDA has done so recently.
- Cam
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 23, 2001, at 10:55:30
In reply to Re: Dr Bob - I'm concerned. » shelliR, posted by Cam W. on August 22, 2001, at 0:10:21
> the potential of a criminal record is real and the chance that a medication that may or may not help (or harm) you is also real. If one is willing to take that risk, that is fine
I guess that would be my position, caveat emptor. People can decide for themselves what risks they're willing to take.
> but Sal is saying to people, "You can order from overseas without a prescription, I did." These people may not realize the potential consequences of their actions until it is too late.
But the more informed their decisions are, the better. So I think my preference would be to continue to allow discussion of self-medication, but also to encourage continued education regarding the potential consequences.
Maybe it would help if I added something to the FAQ? Would anyone like to suggest pros and cons to include?
Bob
Posted by JahL on August 23, 2001, at 12:40:34
In reply to Re: self-medication pros and cons, posted by Dr. Bob on August 23, 2001, at 10:55:30
> > but Sal is saying to people, "You can order from overseas without a prescription, I did." These people may not realize the potential consequences of their actions until it is too late.
> But the more informed their decisions are, the better. So I think my preference would be to continue to allow discussion of self-medication, but also to encourage continued education regarding the potential consequences.Are you sure you're a proper doc? You're way too broad-minded. :-) Good call.
I think that part of the problem is that Sal appears to *promote* self-medication, rather than just discussing the relative merits of it.J.
Posted by NikkiT2 on August 23, 2001, at 15:39:19
In reply to Re: self-medication pros and cons, posted by Dr. Bob on August 23, 2001, at 10:55:30
But posting a message saying "This is a site where you can order drugs with no prescription" is hardly dicussion is it??
Its DANGEROUS.
> > the potential of a criminal record is real and the chance that a medication that may or may not help (or harm) you is also real. If one is willing to take that risk, that is fine
>
> I guess that would be my position, caveat emptor. People can decide for themselves what risks they're willing to take.
>
> > but Sal is saying to people, "You can order from overseas without a prescription, I did." These people may not realize the potential consequences of their actions until it is too late.
>
> But the more informed their decisions are, the better. So I think my preference would be to continue to allow discussion of self-medication, but also to encourage continued education regarding the potential consequences.
>
> Maybe it would help if I added something to the FAQ? Would anyone like to suggest pros and cons to include?
>
> Bob
Posted by NikkiT2 on August 23, 2001, at 15:41:06
In reply to Re: Dr Bob - I'm concerned. » NikkiT2, posted by shelliR on August 21, 2001, at 19:04:09
I have posted on here during psychotic episodes, and I'm pretty certain I'm not the only one.
Excuse me for being "Un-pc", but a mental illness does suggest you are not 100% capable of making certain decisions while you are ill.
I have not seen many posts abnout ordering over seas, but I do see Sal posting regularly, encouraging people to order meds from over seas, and I guess the latest was just the final straw for me.
Nikki
> > I'm really concerned that SalArmy4me is still posting messages on how to obtain non-prescription drugs from abroad.
> >
> > As i staed in my post to him, this is a mental health board,a nd we are often not in a position to make sensible decisions > > > >regading our medication.
>
> Actually participating on this board often helps put us a position to make more sensible decisions regarding our medication.
> This is not a board of actively psychotic participants (you may have noticed that.) To state that those who participate in a mental health forum are less capable than others of making sensible decisions is highly prejudicial and insulting.
>
> < Also, self medication is dangerous alone, as you are not being monitered... What if I were to order lithium as my pdoc won't < prescribe, and was not monitored for any of the problems associated with it. >
>
> Self-medication is generally not the best way to go, I'll agree. Sometimes, however, there are extenuating circumstances. The fact that a drug is available in one country and not in another can in some cases be directly tied to profits expected by large drug companies. It costs a huge amount of money to go through getting FDA approval and many times companies just decide it's not worth it in terms of potential profits. In other cases, our drug approval system really does provide us with more safety. Often also, it is cheaper to buy drugs online than at a pharmacy if you don't have insurance coverage for medications.
> >
> > I know this has been bought up before, but a) do you condone this, and b) if not, have you ever given Sal a warning?
>
> >
> Nikki, ever since I've been participating on this board, people have been giving out information to others on how to get drugs that are not available in the country where they live, or not available from the doctors that they see. So I'm not quite sure why Sal is being singled out by you. For a while when I first came to the board, the "hot" item was adrafinil and that is not available in the states. There was often discussion on which sites were the most reliable to get that drug, and which sites were the most reasonable pricewise. Last week I gave out a url to someone to order buprenorphine, which he was already taking when he lived in France, but could not get in the states.
>
> So why Sal and why now?
>
> Shelli
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 23, 2001, at 17:03:28
In reply to Re: self-medication pros and cons » Dr. Bob, posted by NikkiT2 on August 23, 2001, at 15:39:19
> > But the more informed their decisions are, the better. So I think my preference would be to continue to allow discussion of self-medication, but also to encourage continued education regarding the potential consequences.
> But posting a message saying "This is a site where you can order drugs with no prescription" is hardly dicussion is it??
No, it isn't. But if some people advocated self-medication and others warned of potential consequences, there would still end up being balance...
Bob
Posted by stjames on August 25, 2001, at 2:55:26
In reply to Re: self-medication pros and cons » Dr. Bob, posted by NikkiT2 on August 23, 2001, at 15:39:19
I had to play doc once, when my HMO messed up my Rx card, and a raging sinus infection required attention. A quick trip to Mexico got me my meds and I did not have to see a doc. I am aganist people playing doc but glad there is a way to get meds if one really cannot do it the legit way.
I see a major problem with supply. If you have found the med(s) that work(s), you need a regular supply. Significant illness needs consistant treatment, for long periods of time, or for life.
Unless you live close to the north or south borders, and can go and see a doc and get meds legit, overseas mail seems an unsure way treat an illness. It is also possible that the borders will close (on this issue) if the DEA gets really rabid. I do expect the policy on overseas meds by mail to change. Even if it does not, the reports from this list indicate one has to hop around from time to time to get their meds.James
Posted by Chris A. on September 2, 2001, at 0:31:50
In reply to Re: self-medication pros and cons, posted by Dr. Bob on August 23, 2001, at 17:03:28
Just my opinion: Those of us with any serious illness benefit immensely from a strong doctor/patient relationship where < everything > can be discussed honestly. The good rapport I have with my pDoc is as beneficial as any medication. There are so many drug interactions. In any illness one can benefit from the objectivity of a top-notch professional. For example, for two or three years I was in denial about having bipolar disorder. Without my husband and pDoc guiding me and being firm I could have gotten in big trouble trying to treat myself. It is easy to think we are right about ourselves. Doctors, those in the mental health field and nurses seem to be particularly bad about trying to treat themselves.
I always encourage a person to discuss treatment changes with their doc first.Thanks to Dr. Bob for making this forum available. The work involved boggles my mind. It has been beneficial. Yes, I have discovered info that my pDoc wasn't aware of. Fortunately he is gracious and accepts the corrections.
Chris A.
Posted by Chris A. on September 2, 2001, at 0:38:26
In reply to Re: self-medication pros and cons, posted by Chris A. on September 2, 2001, at 0:31:50
"The grass is greener on the other side of the fence" seems to be a major factor in ordering from overseas. We lived abroad for several years, and frankly I was not impressed that the treatments offered were superior to anything we can get in the highly regulated US. I am not saying that there aren't some worthwhile options elsewhere.
Chris A.
Posted by akc on September 2, 2001, at 8:33:36
In reply to Re: self-medication pros and cons, posted by Chris A. on September 2, 2001, at 0:31:50
Well said Chris!
I know that I am very, very fortunate to have found an excellant pdoc, who is willing to listen to my input and who works hard to keep up to date on all the options available. I also know that I am lucky in that I make enough money to be able to afford to go outside my ppo if necessary (though right now they are paying a higher percentage than what I think they should be paying -- who am I to complain? < g >). I also live in a big city where there are lots of pdocs to choose from.
However, I would encourage anyone to work within their ppo/hmo to try every option -- to keep trying. To not get discouraged. I also am an optimist at heart -- I think most doctors want the best for us, it is just that that many have a hard time relating and we have to find one we can communicate well with.
We all deserve to have good treatment. And a good pdoc can offer us a perspective that we miss out on if we go it alone.
akc
> Just my opinion: Those of us with any serious illness benefit immensely from a strong doctor/patient relationship where < everything > can be discussed honestly. The good rapport I have with my pDoc is as beneficial as any medication. There are so many drug interactions. In any illness one can benefit from the objectivity of a top-notch professional. For example, for two or three years I was in denial about having bipolar disorder. Without my husband and pDoc guiding me and being firm I could have gotten in big trouble trying to treat myself. It is easy to think we are right about ourselves. Doctors, those in the mental health field and nurses seem to be particularly bad about trying to treat themselves.
> I always encourage a person to discuss treatment changes with their doc first.
>
> Thanks to Dr. Bob for making this forum available. The work involved boggles my mind. It has been beneficial. Yes, I have discovered info that my pDoc wasn't aware of. Fortunately he is gracious and accepts the corrections.
>
> Chris A.
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 12, 2001, at 0:12:08
In reply to Re: self-medication pros and cons, posted by Dr. Bob on August 23, 2001, at 10:55:30
> Maybe it would help if I added something to the FAQ?
Well, that's what I've done:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#decide
Let me know what you think,
Bob
Posted by Jane D on September 12, 2001, at 9:01:15
In reply to Re: self-medication pros and cons, posted by Dr. Bob on September 12, 2001, at 0:12:08
> > Maybe it would help if I added something to the FAQ?
>
> Well, that's what I've done:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#decide
>
> Let me know what you think,
>
> BobBob,
It's great. Covers the issues very well. Thank you for taking the time to put that together.
Jane
Posted by shelliR on September 12, 2001, at 13:06:54
In reply to Re: self-medication pros and cons, posted by Dr. Bob on September 12, 2001, at 0:12:08
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 12, 2001, at 17:04:57
In reply to Ditto: Jane's post. Great balance. (nm) » Dr. Bob, posted by shelliR on September 12, 2001, at 13:06:54
Posted by maribeth on October 11, 2001, at 15:32:23
In reply to Re: Dr Bob - I'm concerned. » shelliR, posted by Cam W. on August 22, 2001, at 0:10:21
> Shelli - I have spoken out about posters in the past ordering drugs from overseas, without a prescription; so have several respected posters. I do not read all of the posts and had missed yours, or I may have commented.
>
> I'm sorry, but the potential of a criminal record is real and the chance that a medication that may or may not help (or harm) you is also real. If one is willing to take that risk, that is fine, but Sal is saying to people, "You can order from overseas without a prescription, I did." These people may not realize the potential consequences of their actions until it is too late.
>
> Health Canada clamped down on the importation of overseas meds a few years ago, while the FDA has done so recently.
>
> - CamDr. Bob Ikeep try ing to post without success --what is wrong. maribeth in Pensylvania
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 11, 2001, at 23:49:26
In reply to Re: Dr Bob - I'm concerned., posted by maribeth on October 11, 2001, at 15:32:23
> Ikeep try ing to post without success --what is wrong.
It seemed to have worked that time, at least... What happened the other times?
Bob
Posted by robroy on March 5, 2003, at 12:38:56
In reply to Re: Dr Bob - I'm concerned. » shelliR, posted by Cam W. on August 22, 2001, at 0:10:21
Dear DR.BOB:
I was wondering if you knew if there was any difference between the brand name NOOTRPYL and generic Piracetam.
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 7, 2003, at 5:09:28
In reply to Re: Dr Bob - I'm concerned., posted by robroy on March 5, 2003, at 12:38:56
> Dear DR.BOB:
> I was wondering if you knew if there was any difference between the brand name NOOTRPYL and generic Piracetam.Sorry if it's confusing here, but Psycho-Babble is the board with the focus on medication. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030306/msgs/206748.html
Bob
Posted by xerosaburu on January 26, 2004, at 16:01:12
In reply to Re: Dr Bob - I'm concerned., posted by robroy on March 5, 2003, at 12:38:56
> Dear DR.BOB:
> I was wondering if you knew if there was any difference between the brand name NOOTRPYL and generic Piracetam.Dr. Bob isn't that swift it seems as he doesn't realize that NOOTROPYL and Piracetam are, in fact medications.
The answer is that the generic forms are unregulated as to their quality controls. I, personally have noted marked differences between the generic and the brand name and hence have switched back to the brand name.
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 27, 2004, at 1:04:52
In reply to Re: Dr Bob - I'm concerned., posted by xerosaburu on January 26, 2004, at 16:01:12
> Dr. Bob isn't that swift
Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel put down.
If you have any questions about this or comments about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways to express yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
or post a follow-up here. Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 27, 2004, at 1:08:02
In reply to Re: Dr Bob - I'm concerned., posted by xerosaburu on January 26, 2004, at 16:01:12
> The answer is that the generic forms are unregulated as to their quality controls...
Sorry if it's confusing here, but Psycho-Babble Alternative is now the board with the focus on alternative treatments. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20040110/msgs/305904.html
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
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