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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 16 to 40 of 40. Go back in thread:
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 21, 2020, at 5:06:41
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil, posted by Lamdage22 on June 21, 2020, at 4:33:51
Certain is that there was emotional and physical abuse going on. Emotional abuse didn't really ever stop. Now I am establishing firm boundaries that will hopefully do the trick.
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 21, 2020, at 5:26:33
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil, posted by Lamdage22 on June 21, 2020, at 5:06:41
Basically not talking to my mother much anymore. She is like insane-insane. She doesn't know she is. In her mind, everyone else is. Two weeks ago she told me to go to a hospital. I'm doing better than her!
Posted by undopaminergic on June 21, 2020, at 9:16:16
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil, posted by Lamdage22 on June 21, 2020, at 0:12:22
> Yeah, believe me, I am embarassed by my delusions, too. Did the meds help you think more clearly?
>Not as far as I could tell. In fact, they (at least the quetiapine) dulled me through their anti-histamine effects.
> Or did you get over it without meds? For me, discontinuing Nardil helped a lot. The antipsychotics even more.
>For me, the passage of time, perhaps through using the time for contemplation and reasoning, seems to resolve delusions, slowly. I think (some) anti-psychotics can help speed up the process, through stimulating objective thinking, which may in turn promote certain aspects of critical thinking. When I say "some", I mean clozapine and especially trimipramine; incidentally, I've read they have similar receptor binding profiles. Note that this is just my experience, as it looks from my perspective; it may well be clozapine that does the main part and the addition of trimipramine amounts to reaching a "critical mass" of antipsychotic action.
Trimipramine is otherwise less effective as an antipsychotic than perazine according to a German study. See:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12734763/
(Full article available through https://sci-hub.se/ )-undopaminergic
Posted by undopaminergic on June 21, 2020, at 9:20:45
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil, posted by Lamdage22 on June 21, 2020, at 5:06:41
> Certain is that there was emotional and physical abuse going on. Emotional abuse didn't really ever stop. Now I am establishing firm boundaries that will hopefully do the trick.
>Could it be that the abuse gave you a borderline-psychotic disorder (not necessarily the same thing as borderline personality disorder), and the Nardil pushed you over the border into manifest psychosis?
-undopaminergic
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 21, 2020, at 9:59:51
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil, posted by undopaminergic on June 21, 2020, at 9:20:45
Yeah could be. But maybe it would never have surfaced without the trigger.
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 21, 2020, at 10:00:30
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil, posted by Lamdage22 on June 21, 2020, at 9:59:51
You mean being prone to psychosis?
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 22, 2020, at 0:01:15
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil, posted by Lamdage22 on June 21, 2020, at 9:59:51
There must be a reason why I react to MAOI this way and 98% of others dont. But you usually dont know in advance!
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 22, 2020, at 0:05:16
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil, posted by Lamdage22 on June 22, 2020, at 0:01:15
I also wonder if this one day was a spiritual experience or part of psychosis or both.
Posted by undopaminergic on June 22, 2020, at 1:06:54
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil, posted by Lamdage22 on June 21, 2020, at 10:00:30
> You mean being prone to psychosis?
Yes, being unusually sensitive/vulnerable to it. I haven't heard of anyone else who got psychotic from Nardil. I haven't tried it myself.
-undopaminergic
Posted by undopaminergic on June 22, 2020, at 1:09:55
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil, posted by Lamdage22 on June 22, 2020, at 0:05:16
> I also wonder if this one day was a spiritual experience or part of psychosis or both.
>I've had several spiritual experiences after my first psychosis. In other words, there may be good things about a psychosis. Indeed, few things are purely good or bad.
-undopaminergic
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 22, 2020, at 1:15:08
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil, posted by undopaminergic on June 22, 2020, at 1:06:54
Please dont. It is listed as a side effect. 1 in 100.
> Yes, being unusually sensitive/vulnerable to it. I haven't heard of anyone else who got psychotic from Nardil. I haven't tried it myself.
>
> -undopaminergic
>
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 22, 2020, at 1:21:26
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil, posted by Lamdage22 on June 22, 2020, at 1:15:08
You sound like the person who can get this reaction. Doctors usually don't recommend this if psychosis was an issue in the past.
Posted by undopaminergic on June 22, 2020, at 3:13:25
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil, posted by Lamdage22 on June 22, 2020, at 1:21:26
> You sound like the person who can get this reaction. Doctors usually don't recommend this if psychosis was an issue in the past.
>I am actually quite resistant to psychosis. I was really doing "everything I could" to get psychosis the first time. I used stimulants (cocaine-like) intensively, mostly to stay awake, and I accumulated a sleep deficit, which in turn made me psychotic. Ironically, I didn't get auditory hallucinations until after I stopped the stimulant, but it makes sense, because I still couldn't sleep. Moreover, there was a trigger: my computer was broken into, so I got increasingly paranoid over security, and I was looking for viruses and trojans day and night.
I've had later episodes of even heavier use of stimulants, in which I stayed up for maybe a week at a time. That would drive almost anyone psychotic. But not me, probably because psychical self-healing after the first psychosis made me more resistant.
Later psychoses have just included delusions, no hallucinations. The inception of these delusions have been linked with mania, endogenous and drug-induced.
Actually, I'm liberal in accepting ideas as "delusions". A delusion does in fact *require* absolute conviction and is clung to despite all evidence against it. I have rarely had such delusions. Mere unscientific working hypotheses are not delusions; and it is this kind of ideas that are the most common in my case.
-undopaminergic
Posted by undopaminergic on June 22, 2020, at 3:20:24
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil, posted by Lamdage22 on June 22, 2020, at 1:15:08
Explains why we don't hear much of it.
I'm not interested in Nardil, but very much in Parnate.
> Please dont. It is listed as a side effect. 1 in 100.
>
> > Yes, being unusually sensitive/vulnerable to it. I haven't heard of anyone else who got psychotic from Nardil. I haven't tried it myself.
> >
> > -undopaminergic
> >
>
>-undopaminergic
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 22, 2020, at 3:22:06
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil, posted by undopaminergic on June 22, 2020, at 3:20:24
Well, I suppose you know which symptoms to look out for unlike me. I didn't know what psychosis is.
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 22, 2020, at 3:23:14
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil, posted by undopaminergic on June 22, 2020, at 3:20:24
Yeah, but that taught me about statistics. Sometimes you draw the shortest straw.
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 22, 2020, at 3:29:16
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil, posted by Lamdage22 on June 22, 2020, at 3:23:14
Other than psychosis it was very effective. Especially for social anxiety. So it did hurt when it turned out that it is no good for me. I didn't want to accept. This is the reason why I often advocate for carefulness with meds!
Posted by undopaminergic on June 22, 2020, at 3:30:50
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil, posted by Lamdage22 on June 22, 2020, at 3:22:06
> Well, I suppose you know which symptoms to look out for unlike me.
For me, the key is to look out for mania. The first symptom of its onset is reduced need for sleep and diminution of apathy, or in other words, increased goal-directed behaviour. As long as thinking remains "sober" it's all right.
Self-observation can be difficult in the midst of a psychosis, but people around you can often spot some of the symptoms, such as in particular paranoia.
-undopaminergic
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 22, 2020, at 3:33:34
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil, posted by undopaminergic on June 22, 2020, at 3:30:50
Maybe doctors should screen their patients for a vulnerability to psychosis and use antidepressants that are not likely to make this problem come to the surface.
Posted by undopaminergic on June 22, 2020, at 3:41:15
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil, posted by Lamdage22 on June 22, 2020, at 3:29:16
> Other than psychosis it was very effective. Especially for social anxiety. So it did hurt when it turned out that it is no good for me. I didn't want to accept. This is the reason why I often advocate for carefulness with meds!
>Right. When a drug is effective but induces serious adverse effects, it is a dilemma whether to continue or not. This may be particularly common in the case of lithium (at high doses), because for some people it works so well, but long-term use can lead to permanent kidney damage. Antipsychotics (APs) often have serious metabolic adverse effects, such as obesity and diabetes, and when the drug works better than other APs, there is a difficult decision to make.
-undopaminergic
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 22, 2020, at 3:42:56
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil, posted by Lamdage22 on June 22, 2020, at 3:33:34
One of the hallmarks of MAOI is insomnia. So that criterium for figuring out wether you go in the wrong direction may not be available to you anymore. You will likely need a sleep med. I did sleep when i was psychotic. On sleep meds.
Posted by undopaminergic on June 22, 2020, at 3:45:38
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil, posted by Lamdage22 on June 22, 2020, at 3:33:34
> Maybe doctors should screen their patients for a vulnerability to psychosis and use antidepressants that are not likely to make this problem come to the surface.
>That is difficult to tell in advance, and could deprive some people of treatments they need. I think it is better to carefully watch for effects that may indicate an impending onset of psychosis.
-undopaminergic
Posted by undopaminergic on June 22, 2020, at 3:59:03
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil, posted by Lamdage22 on June 22, 2020, at 3:42:56
> One of the hallmarks of MAOI is insomnia. So that criterium for figuring out wether you go in the wrong direction may not be available to you anymore. You will likely need a sleep med. I did sleep when i was psychotic. On sleep meds.
>I meant a subjectively reduced need for sleep. People who complain of insomnia usually feel they *need* that sleep they are missing. With a (non-mixed) manic reduced need for sleep, you feel alert and enthusiastic despite sleeping only a few hours -- or even not at all.
That said, with a mixed mania, in which you have depressive and manic symptoms, you may wish to sleep, but you cannot, because you feel fully awake, perhaps fully awake with unpleasant racing thoughts, making you long for rest (but not because you are actually tired). You can perhaps classify that as a special case of insomnia.
-undopaminergic
Posted by cranez on June 23, 2020, at 11:32:46
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil » Lamdage22, posted by SLS on June 17, 2020, at 8:37:28
> A great many people experience transient euphoria when they first start taking Nardil. It often settles down and one must then wait for a more balanced and stable response to emerge. A lot of people keep raising the dosage in an effort to recapture the euphoric effect. They never can. Don't be fooled.
Easy to recapture for me- drop the dose down to 30mg or 15mg for around 2 months. That can be a rough 2 months, but can still function. The pop it up to 75-90mg and the euphoria is back for 3 months or so. Then it subsides, and I am left with a robust antidepressant response, but not a euphoric state.
I love Nardil.
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 16, 2020, at 7:20:43
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil, posted by cranez on June 23, 2020, at 11:32:46
I had a love hate relationship. Now we agree to disagree. I just would like to create the same GABA-T inhibitory action for anxiety without side effects.
> I love Nardil.
This is the end of the thread.
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