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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by SLS on January 8, 2019, at 12:33:12
I have seen some recent medical articles that question the efficacy of fish oil when treating depression - particularly severe depression. I tend to agree with the conclusion based upon what I see on Psycho-Babble and other resources of information.
I could be underestimating fish oil.
Any comments?
- Scott
Posted by Lamdage22 on January 8, 2019, at 13:36:59
In reply to Fish oil: Maybe not so effective after all., posted by SLS on January 8, 2019, at 12:33:12
I take DHA/EPA for cholesterol and triglycerides and general health... I havent noticed much difference in mood. It probably wont do heavy lifting of depression. Subtle at best. I also take Hemp oil and Flaxseed Oil. Fats are important for testosterone which is important for mood.
Have you hit your baseline that you had when you last took Parnate? What are your plans? Does your insurance cover endocrinological testing?
I am doing okay. Pretty content right now. The prospect of studying online half time helps. Its funny that you can study part time but not do professional school half time! Well, i love english and languages in general. You guys play a role in keeping me going with my english. So thanks for that!It really helps.
Posted by Lamdage22 on January 8, 2019, at 13:40:41
In reply to Re: Fish oil: Maybe not so effective after all., posted by Lamdage22 on January 8, 2019, at 13:36:59
I am planning to translate texts for a living.
Posted by Christ_empowered on January 8, 2019, at 16:49:27
In reply to Re: Fish oil: Maybe not so effective after all., posted by Lamdage22 on January 8, 2019, at 13:40:41
im kind of wondering, too. with me...well, my eyes don't get itchy and dry (LOL). that's awesome. and...ive seen small studies in which omega 3 was combined with 1 or 2 antioxidants in neuroleptic-treated people.
The combinations seemed to result in less EPS, less TD, reduction in TD severity for those who had already developed the syndrome. based on that, I'm kind of thinking that perhaps fish oil has long been recommended for mental ailments (Hoffer recommended it in some of his later protocols) more because of its ability to reduce the toxicity of standard treatment than because of any genuine mood elevating effects.
i could be wrong. and reducing eps and neuroleptic induced dysphoria is helpful, for me at least.
Posted by linkadge on January 8, 2019, at 16:52:29
In reply to Fish oil: Maybe not so effective after all., posted by SLS on January 8, 2019, at 12:33:12
I think the totality of evidence still suggests a positive benefit. Perhaps not necessarily as a sole agent, but for augmentation (i.e. like lithium augmentation).
There is some evidence that Omega3 can still reduce inflammation, even in cases where it doesn't improve mood. Also, I find some of the evidence for bipolar more interesting. Omega 3, biochemically, works more like a mood stabilizer than it does an antidepressant.
For example, most antidepressants increase PKC, whereas mood stabilizers and O3 reduce it.
I, personally, find DHA very helpful. It helps most with pain and generalized overstimulation (sensitivity to light and sound). It also seems to stabilize my mood. It feels like valproate with a bit more antidepressant / procognitive effect.Linkadge
Posted by sigismund on January 8, 2019, at 16:59:03
In reply to Re: Fish oil: Maybe not so effective after all. » SLS, posted by linkadge on January 8, 2019, at 16:52:29
IDK, but some fish oils may not be so good if not fresh, which many of them may not be. I found capsules difficult to digest and absorb. Oily fish and fresh flax seed oil can really improve lipid balance.
Posted by rjlockhart37 on January 9, 2019, at 0:23:56
In reply to Re: Fish oil: Maybe not so effective after all., posted by sigismund on January 8, 2019, at 16:59:03
omega 3s used to flatten my mood, i did not like fish oil
Posted by PeterMartin on January 9, 2019, at 11:03:51
In reply to Re: Fish oil: Maybe not so effective after all., posted by rjlockhart37 on January 9, 2019, at 0:23:56
Like most of the suggested supplements it made me feel worse off in the long run.
Probiotics definitely make me feel worse (and I've seen recent literate (suggesting they might not be such a great idea after all).
Oddly though Vitamin D3 and B12 also make me depressed. So perhaps I'm just very sensitive to changes.
Posted by SLS on January 9, 2019, at 22:09:40
In reply to Re: Fish oil: Maybe not so effective after all. » SLS, posted by linkadge on January 8, 2019, at 16:52:29
> I think the totality of evidence still suggests a positive benefit. Perhaps not necessarily as a sole agent, but for augmentation (i.e. like lithium augmentation).
You are probably right.
> There is some evidence that Omega3 can still reduce inflammation, even in cases where it doesn't improve mood.Yes. I just read that.
> Also, I find some of the evidence for bipolar more interesting. Omega 3, biochemically, works more like a mood stabilizer than it does an antidepressant.
Perhaps that's why some people here describe feeling more depressed on fish oil. I wonder if pure EPA would affect these people differently.
> For example, most antidepressants increase PKC, whereas mood stabilizers and O3 reduce it.
>
>
> I, personally, find DHA very helpful. It helps most with pain and generalized overstimulation (sensitivity to light and sound). It also seems to stabilize my mood. It feels like valproate with a bit more antidepressant / procognitive effect.
>
> LinkadgeThanks for the info.
- Scott
Posted by Lamdage22 on January 11, 2019, at 13:01:37
In reply to Re: Fish oil: Maybe not so effective after all. » linkadge, posted by SLS on January 9, 2019, at 22:09:40
I have read somewhere that most fish oil is rancid. If its true i dont know.
Posted by Christ_empowered on January 12, 2019, at 9:33:47
In reply to Re: Fish oil: Maybe not so effective after all., posted by Lamdage22 on January 11, 2019, at 13:01:37
look for brands that add tocopherols and/or (I think...) tocotrienols...they act as natural preservatives. and...
fish oil tends to lower vitamin E levels. My personal approach has been to keep my natural form E intake @ 800 IU or more, per day (with a high fat meal, of course).
Posted by bleauberry on January 14, 2019, at 9:40:33
In reply to Fish oil: Maybe not so effective after all., posted by SLS on January 8, 2019, at 12:33:12
I have never seen fish oil work significantly well on anybody I've ever known for either anxiety or depression. Though it can help a little bit. I have always questioned the clinical studies and doubted their authenticity or their structure. There were flaws in there somewhere. Or bias. Or politics. Or something. Because in the real world, fish oil does not do what it does in the clinical trial world. It just doesn't.
But I am a huge fan of fish oil in psychiatry, anyway, even if it isn't a good antidepressant. That's because it is anti-inflammatory. My journey has taught me that the 3 main causes of depression are 1.Unseen toxicity 2.Unseen infection 3.Unseen inflammation resulting from #1 and #2. Fish oil helps to address #3 in a modest way. The inflammation approach needs a multi angle approach, however, and fish oil is only one of those angles.
In cases where fish oil did actually help somebody's depression in a big way, I propose that those patients had a kind of inflammation that was directly reduced by the fish oil and the patient felt better in the head because of it.
Inflammation = cytokines = everything messed up. Fish oil pushes back against that modestly.
> I have seen some recent medical articles that question the efficacy of fish oil when treating depression - particularly severe depression. I tend to agree with the conclusion based upon what I see on Psycho-Babble and other resources of information.
>
> I could be underestimating fish oil.
>
> Any comments?
>
>
> - Scott
This is the end of the thread.
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