![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by stan_the_man70 on August 10, 2015, at 2:33:33
-----------------quote reference
http://www.alternativementalhealth.com/treatment-for-benzodiazepine-withdrawal-3/
-----------------end quote
Treatment for Benzodiazepine Withdrawal
by Charles Gant, N.M.D., Ph.D.The appearance of this article does not indicate an endorsement by Safe Harbor. We seek to provide information for both the lay and professional community and include articles with well-researched approaches and/or treatments that the writer feels have shown clinically to be of help.
(This protocol should not be used in place of a recommended treatment provided by your health care provider and should only be used with their approval. I have found this protocol to be useful for many of my patients but I cannot guarantee that it will be effective for everyone. Normally, I would recommend a full integrative medicine workup including amino acid plasma levels, RBC minerals, essential fatty acids and other diagnostic testing to determine precisely which of the interventions noted here are actually needed.)
Benzodiazepines are a class of drugs often used as tranquilizers. Full information on benzo problems is available at www.benzosupport.org
Here is my current and ever-changing protocol for benzodiazepine withdrawal.
1) GABA 500 to 2000 mg., two or three times a day (GABA, like tyrosine, may not cross the BBB unless the patient is very stressed and it appears that the studies that suggest that GABA does not cross were done on unstressed subjects.)
2) Theanine 200 to 600 mg., two or three time a day (Theanine competes with glutamate receptors to mitigate the neuroexcitatory effects. In another elegant balancing mechanism, the brain balances glutamate (excitatory) which is made into the generally inhibitory GABA (requires B6) The theanine in green tea may be one reason that the also present caffeine does not seem to stimulate tea drinkers as much.)
3) P5P (pyridoxal-5-phosphate) 50 mg. One capsule two or three times a day (Some people dont phosphorylate B6 well).
4) Glutamine powder One level teaspoonful twice a day to three heaping teaspoonfuls a day, dissolved in water, one hour before meals, last dose at bedtime (Especially important for hypoglycemic patients, as glutamine deficiency is by far the main immediate cause of hypoglycemia and glutamine is the precursor for glutamate).
5) Magnesium taurate 1000 mg. twice a day to 2000 mg. three time a day
6) Salt food lightly with NuSalt/NoSalt (potassium chloride)
7) 5HTP 100 mg. twice a day to 200 mg. three times a day
8) Purified soy lecithin 1000 mg. three times a day (B5 (pantethine (not pantothenic acid) needed to acetylate the choline to acetylcholine, generally relaxing and downregulating of catecholamines)
9) Pantethine 500 mg. One twice a day
10) Optizinc 20-30 mg. twice a day. (Lowers the commonly high copper, which inhibits 5HTP decarboxylase. Activates digestive enzymes to help with amino acid absorption.)
11) Lipoic acid 300 mg. twice a day (oral chelation for neuroexcitatory heavy metals, especially mercury)
12) Mutivitamin/multimineral
13) Distilled fish oil (omega 3) 4000 mg a day and Borage oil (omega 6) 1000 mg. a day (Essential fatty acids ultimately increase the neuroplasticity of cell membranes, possibly assisting receptor activity).
14) Add herbal sedatives if necessary
Posted by stan_the_man70 on August 10, 2015, at 2:58:56
In reply to Treatment for Benzodiazepine Withdrawal, posted by stan_the_man70 on August 10, 2015, at 2:33:33
here is a download link
-------------------quote reference
http://www.alternativementalhealth.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/BeyondPsychotropics.pdf
-------------------end quoteBeyond Psychotropics:
A Practical Introduction to
Non-Drug Therapies and
Wellness Basics for Adult Mental Health
Craig Wagner
October 2014---------------------
Contents
Introduction. 5
A framework of Wellness Basics and Therapies for Adult Mental Health .................................................... 17
Wellness Basics
Housing & Safety ................................................................................................................................. 18
Ingestion & Digestion .......................................................................................................................... 19
Exercise & Physical Disciplines ................................................................................................................. 20
Stress Management & Sleep .................................................................................................................... 21
Independence & Purpose ......................................................................................................................... 22
Interdependence & Community ............................................................................................................... 23
Hope, Religion & Spirituality .................................................................................................................... 24
Psychosocial Restorative Therapies
Individual Psychosocial Therapy ............................................................................................................... 25
Group, Family & Peer Therapy ................................................................................................................. 26
Cognitive Behavioral Therapy .................................................................................................................. 27
Cognitive Enhancement Therapy ............................................................................................................. 28
Self-Management Therapy ....................................................................................................................... 29
Biochemical Restorative Therapies
Orthomolecular Psychiatry .................................................................................................................. 30
Endocrine Therapy .............................................................................................................................. 31
Food Allergy Therapy .......................................................................................................................... 32
Hypoglycemic Therapy ........................................................................................................................ 33
Symptom Care Therapies
Hospital, Residential & Community Therapy ........................................................................................... 34
Non-Invasive Therapies ....................................................................................................................... 35
Electroconvulsive Therapy ....................................................................................................................... 35
Repetitive Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation Therapy ................................................................................ 37
Vagus Nerve Stimulation Therapy ............................................................................................................ 38
Appendicies
Alternative Mental Health Organizations ................................................................................................ 39
Alternative Mental Health Practitioners .................................................................................................. 42
Additional Resources ................................................................................................................................ 43
Glossary ............................................................................................................................................... 44
Look Deeper ........................................................................................................................................ 45
References ........................................................................................................................................... 46Beyond Psychotropics
A simple introduction to a complex world
I entered the world of mental health out of necessity. It wasnt a career choice but a survival instinct when a loved-one experienced a mental health crisis.
The experience was painful, confusing and disempowering. I felt helpless because I couldnt answer the burning question tugging at me: what should I do? I found little that explained this complex situation well. I needed to understand the issues, the trade-offs, the areas where we had good answers and the areas where we had poor ones - and most importantly, I needed to understand the alternatives.
I didnt have a short book like the one you are now reading.
Instead, I struggled to piece together what I could. I tried to make sense of perspectives that often seemed to clash conventional psychiatric wisdom, lived experience of those facing mental health issues, overworked mental health care providers and the findings of the latest scientific studies.
I attempted to find a place for humanity in the sterile perspectives that see the struggle for mental health as a danger to be contained or a bodily invasion to be imposed. I also attempted to find a place for respect in the justifiable outrage of those who have suffered deeply at the hands of a broken mental health system and who see psychiatry as a discipline worthy of burning to the ground.
This book is the result. It is for those facing mental health challenges and their families. It is a place to start. It is based on a review of over 500 scientific studies evaluating the safety and effectiveness of approaches to mental health. It is also informed by working directly with those who have mental health issues and their families.
It is grounded in a deep respect for all who engage in this struggle including those with mental health issues, their families, mental health professionals, mental health researchers, teachers and communities. It is also grounded in the belief that providing clear and transparent information shedding light on the golden nuggets, warts and unknowns of all approaches is of great value.
The premise of this book is simple. Mental health recovery is achievable through a courageous and individualized process of prudent experimentation. The likelihood of success skyrockets when the process is grounded in self-determination, fueled by hope, assisted by talented providers and caring supporters, and enabled by access to a clear set of scientifically validated alternatives.
My primary contribution is to articulate a clear set of scientifically supported alternatives.
Ive shared this book with people in mental health workshops, support groups, training sessions and in one-on one dialog. Ive also shared it with a variety of mental health professionals, researchers and organizations worldwide. The reaction Ive received has been quite positive, especially from those who see value in a more holistic approach to mental health.
Others have viewed this book as accurate, but dangerous with danger in the form of potential incentive for people to shun psychotropic drugs (drugs that affect a persons mental state) in their self-empowered zeal to look beyond them. That is a possibility, but I think the risk much greater if we fail to shed a bright light on approaches that might help and fail to trust people to self-direct their own recovery, because in the end, no one else reliably will.
What I offer isnt complete since the field is constantly evolving. It isnt bullet-proof; there are few easy answers. It isnt a shocking new discovery. It isnt the answer to what should I do? as much as it is an approach to help you create your answer to the question, what will I do?
It is based in respected scientific studies. It has broad scope. Many have called it balanced, a source of hope and easy to understand. And it is accessible and free with updates continuously available online at http://goo.gl/NFpHI8.
The only agenda I have in pulling this together is to deliver the most robust, balanced and scientifically validated set of alternatives possible. I seek to make available something that would have helped me greatly many years ago hoping that it is something that will help you greatly right now.Before we get started
a little housekeeping.
To streamline the presentation of material in this book weve placed certain important detailed discussion in starred endnote references (e.g. exam*42*). This helps get an uncluttered view of the major points but still gives access to important details that may be of interest to you. These endnotes typically provide context for the topic and further detailed references.
(This book) isnt the answer to what should I do? as much as it is an approach to help you create your answer to the question, what will I do?...
Posted by stan_the_man70 on August 10, 2015, at 5:08:09
In reply to Treatment for Benzodiazepine Withdrawal, posted by stan_the_man70 on August 10, 2015, at 2:33:33
------------quote reference
https://www.pureformulas.com/lithinase-100-capsules-by-progressive-labs.html
------------end quoteIf you have bipolar disorder you know that the symptoms can be challenging. There is no cure for the disorder but fortunately there are treatments. Lithium is a mood stabilizer. Its not completely understood how the mineral works but its believed that it controls glutamate (which is an amino acid) levels in your brain to possibly keep your moods balanced.
Lithium amino acid chelate is a natural form of lithium that may help treat mental disorders. This form of lithium is easy for your body to absorb and less likely to cause side effects. You shouldnt discontinue or start new medications without approval from your doctor.
The mood-stabilizing benefits of lithium amino acid chelate may also be beneficial for treating symptoms associated with mild depression and autism. Some research suggests that lithium may also slow or prevent the onset of memory loss during the aging process.
In addition to the lithium amino acid chelate Progressive Labs Lithinase also contains other ingredients that may support mental function and balance out moods such as:
* Pea powder which provides your brain with the protein it needs to produce chemicals hormones and enzymes.
* Millet flour in addition to containing other beneficial vitamins is another rich source of protein for your brain.
* Lentil powder yet another protein source for your brain.
* Chlorophyll (as sodium copper chlorophyllin) a powerful antioxidant that provides some of the valuable nutrients your brain needs for mental balance.Take one Lithinase capsule per day unless you are directed otherwise by your healthcare practitioner. At the recommended dose a 100-capsule bottle should last for a little over three months.
Progressive Labs has been a family owned manufacturer and distributor of nutritional supplements or 40 years. Progressive Labs has supplied over 25000 customers with professional grade vitamins herbals and dietary supplements.
These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). These products are not meant to diagnose treat or cure any disease or medical condition. Please consult your doctor before starting any exercise or nutritional supplement program or before using these or any product during pregnancy or if you have a serious medical condition.
Official Website: http://www.progressivelabs.com - See more at: https://www.pureformulas.com/lithinase-100-capsules-by-progressive-labs.html#sthash.JwvGESv7.dpuf
Posted by stan_the_man70 on August 10, 2015, at 5:17:05
In reply to anyone heard of/tried lithinase?, posted by stan_the_man70 on August 10, 2015, at 5:08:09
----------------quote reference
http://mentalhealthdaily.com/2014/11/07/9-best-xanax-alternatives-natural-treatments-for-anxiety/
----------------end quote9 Best Xanax Alternatives: Natural Treatments For Anxiety
Xanax Alternatives: Natural Treatments for Anxiety
1. Meditation
2. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT)
3. Yoga
4. Kava (Piper methysticum)
5. Passionflower (Passiflora incarnata)
6. L-Lysine + L-Arginine
7. Neurofeedback
8. Essential Oils
9. Lifestyle changes
* Relationships
* Work
* Sleep
* Diet
* Exercise
* Education
Posted by stan_the_man70 on August 10, 2015, at 5:22:47
In reply to Natural Treatments For Anxiety, posted by stan_the_man70 on August 10, 2015, at 5:17:05
-------------------quote reference
http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=74070.0
-------------------end quoteNATURAL WAYS FOR COPING WITH BENZO WITHDRAWAL: Bringing calm, breath support...
« on: February 01, 2013, 03:29:29 pm »
I have been exploring what benzos do from an ENERGETIC perspective to the body and mind. It seems that benzos activate an upward movement of energy, which is why the mind starts to race, breathing becomes difficult, the throat can feel closed, and so forth.
Breathing issues could be from various things:
1) Inflamed GI (gastro-intestinal) tract. It becomes imbalanced with meds or changes to meds...withdrawal...and also when Serotonin levels are affected, which adversely affects the gut. I suggest smaller meals, eating a few hours apart. With an inflamed GI, this can make breathing more difficult, especially diaphragmatic breathing, which is the proper way to breathe.
Breathing Exercise: A good yogic breathing exercise that helps is to breath in with the diaphragm...not chest breathing. While breathing in, allow your diaphragm to first lower, then the belly to extend outward...with a total count of 6. Pause/hold for 3. Exhale through the mouth for a count of 6. Pause/hold for 3 counts. Repeat. When you do this cycle, just follow into a natural rhythm that is nice and easy, without forcing the breath.
With proper breathing, the chest should not move at all. Babies breathe naturally this way, and you do as well when lying down flat on your back. You can check out proper breathing by lying down, placing one hand on the chest, and the other hand on the abdomen. The abdomen should rise and fall with the breath, but the chest should really not move much.
The above exercise is fantastic to do if you wake up early in bed, but you want to stay there for a while longer. Just lie in bed...eyes closed...and breathe, and I find that combining with the tapping below really helps.
Practice proper breathing throughout the day...every day...for the rest of your life! Simply be mindful of how you breathe throughout the day. You will be happier and more peaceful.
2) Certain Herbal Teas: There is a rush of energy that moves up the body caused from benzos that can result in tightening of the throat area. I find that calming teas (e.g., chamomile) are helpful. And practice proper breathing.
3) Grounding Exercise: Practice focusing on the feet...and keeping the feet flat on the ground. Visualize the energy moving down the body through the feet, and into the earth. This helps bring the excess buildup of energy in the upper part of the body downward.Most people sit without their feet on the ground. Or their toes are touching without the rest of their feet touching the ground. In eastern medicine and acupuncture, the toes on the body are mapped and related to the upper parts of the body, including the head, shoulders, sinuses, etc. When the toes are touching the ground, it activates the upper part of the body. If you place your feet flat on the ground, even for a few minutes, you'll probably find that you will be calmer. If you add the visualization piece, it will be even more powerful for you.
4) Tapping Exercise: This is helpful to do in combination with breathing, and fantastic for CALMING ANXIETY! Tapping is part of the field of EMDR research/technology, which is Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing. Essentially, it balances the brain hemispheres and helps neutalize negative emotions while producing a calming effect. When I have worked with a therapist in the past, we used small buzzers in each hand; tapping does basically the same thing.You can tap with two different ways: In sitting up, you can cross your arms, placing your hands outside the body. This allows you to slowly alternate tapping each arm with the opposite hand. You can also criss-cross the arms on the lap, so that the right hand is tapping the left thigh, and vice versa. The lap tapping is good when sitting or lying down. You can gently tap the arm or leg with one or more fingers.
Start tapping slowly and gently, alternating each hand, and breathing deeply from the diaphragm. If you do this for at least a few minutes, it will produce a calming effect to the body, and help balance the body energetically.
5) Peppermint Oil is good for calming and opening up for better breathing. You can use pure essential peppermint oil, placing a couple of drops in your palms and rubbing them together, then inhaling deeply the scent a few times with your hands cupped close to your face. You can also rub a drop or two on the bottoms of your feet. Also, chamomile oil is calming and grounding.
6) Eliminate Sugars: Be sure to eliminate or reduce sugars from your diet. This is key. Read product labels. Probably most Americans are suffering unknowingly from Candida, which is a yeast overgrowth in the GI tract. Sugars can be a root cause to candida imbalance. Candida overgrowth has been known to produce anxiety, headaches, body aches and pains, among other things. Check with your doctor, or do the research on this. I'm a proponent for eating fewer processed foods, and putting more whole foods in the diet. Probiotics will also help bring the GI tract back into balance.Candida overgrowth also creates an inflamed GI tract, making more difficult.
Another theory from a number of doctors is that sugars are the real cause of higher blood cholesterol, but this is a whole other subject.
7) Avoid Spicy Foods: Often, we hear that spicy foods really open up the sinuses, and so forth. But what they really do is produce histamine, which creates congestion afterwards. Spicy foods can also bring on panic attacks by creating "heat waves", which can trigger an anxiety attack. A blander diet is really better while you are healing, in my opinion.
Hope these tips help you! May you be healed in your mind, body, and soul. Blessings to you of peace and calm.
Posted by stan_the_man70 on August 10, 2015, at 5:29:09
In reply to Bringing calm, breath support..., posted by stan_the_man70 on August 10, 2015, at 5:22:47
---------------quote reference
http://ask.metafilter.com/200029/Is-there-a-natural-substitute-for-the-benzodiazepines
---------------end quoteI've tried everything (and more) mentioned above and they all work to some degree, but the main problem is that most make me really drowsy - which I consider a non-solution for functioning during the day.
I was lucky enough to stumble upon Niacinamide - a non-flushing form of niacin (B3), that seems to have some affinity for GABA receptors that benzos act upon. You can find this at most health food / vitamin stores. 1000mg of this twice a day has dramatically reduced my anxiety. I combine this with taurine and theanine to potentiate the effect (both taurine and theanine act slightly differently in their anxiolytic effects, so their benefits combine well). My first time taking a large dose I almost felt drunk, and with chronic use that effect went away - leaving behind a calm stable feeling.
I've read about Niacinamide being used for benzo withdrawals, so the effect makes sense to me. Make sure to limit daily intake to 3g or less.
A few hours before bedtime I take a combination of calming supplements that also cause drowsiness - ashwaghanda, glycine, lysine, arginine, magnesium/calcium, and 5-HTP. Valerian is a good bedtime addition as well.
posted by pickingoutathermos at 12:31 PM on November 4, 2011 [3 favorites]
Posted by SLS on August 10, 2015, at 6:47:38
In reply to Treatment for Benzodiazepine Withdrawal, posted by stan_the_man70 on August 10, 2015, at 2:33:33
Certain anticonvulsants help with benzodiazepine withdrawal. They also help with alcohol withdrawal. Trileptal (oxcarbazepine) comes to mind.
- Scott
Posted by jpa on August 10, 2015, at 8:22:17
In reply to anyone read this book: Beyond Psychotropics, posted by stan_the_man70 on August 10, 2015, at 2:58:56
I tried your link, but couldn't bring the book down. The link on his website does not work either. I'd like to read the book!
Posted by stan_the_man70 on August 10, 2015, at 9:54:14
In reply to Re: anyone read this book: Beyond Psychotropics » stan_the_man70, posted by jpa on August 10, 2015, at 8:22:17
its a nice book
link: http://www.alternativementalhealth.com/category/alternative-treatments/
Article Category: Alternative Treatments
Beyond Psychotropics: A Practical Introduction to Non-Drug Therapies and Wellness Basics
Download PDF Here
> I tried your link, but couldn't bring the book down. The link on his website does not work either. I'd like to read the book!
>
>
Posted by stan_the_man70 on August 10, 2015, at 10:13:46
In reply to here is another link » jpa, posted by stan_the_man70 on August 10, 2015, at 9:54:14
From the famous The Great Courses/Teaching Company
-----------------quote reference
http://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/cognitive-behavioral-therapy-techniques-for-retraining-your-brain.html
-----------------end quoteCognitive Behavioral Therapy: Techniques for Retraining Your Brain
Professor Jason M. Satterfield Ph.D.
University of California, San Francisco
-------------------------
About This Course24 lectures | 31 minutes per lecture
Why is it so hard to lose weight, stop smoking, or establish healthy habits? Why do couples argue about the same issues over and over? Why do so many people lie awake at night, stricken with worry and anxiety? Why is it so difficult to come to terms with a loved ones death, even if its after a long illness?
The answers to these questionsand the path to lasting change in your lifelie in cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT), a well-tested collection of practical techniques for managing moods and modifying undesirable behaviors through self-awareness, critical analysis, and taking steps toward gradual, goal-oriented change.
-------------------
list price about $200 but on sale should be less than $50 or soformats: video download, audio download, DVD, CD
Posted by rockerchick46 on August 10, 2015, at 16:22:45
In reply to Natural Treatments For Anxiety, posted by stan_the_man70 on August 10, 2015, at 5:17:05
Very good information, thank you
Tammy
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 11, 2015, at 10:07:53
In reply to Treatment for Benzodiazepine Withdrawal, posted by stan_the_man70 on August 10, 2015, at 2:33:33
I have healthy respect for benzo addiction and i dont take more than a pill a week.
WIthdrawal must be horrendous.
Posted by Christ_empowered on August 11, 2015, at 10:41:32
In reply to natural-substitute-for-the-benzodiazepines, posted by stan_the_man70 on August 10, 2015, at 5:29:09
yeah...I take 3 grams/niacinamide per day and its awesome. I sleep well, my anxiety is much improved, even my rosacea has gotten better (niacinamide is, weirdly enough, good for rosacea).
I use 2 1.5grams time release tabs, 1 AM and 1 PM. Does the trick for me, at least.
Posted by SLS on August 11, 2015, at 14:04:22
In reply to Re: natural-substitute-for-the-benzodiazepines, posted by Christ_empowered on August 11, 2015, at 10:41:32
> yeah...I take 3 grams/niacinamide per day and its awesome. I sleep well, my anxiety is much improved, even my rosacea has gotten better (niacinamide is, weirdly enough, good for rosacea).
>
> I use 2 1.5grams time release tabs, 1 AM and 1 PM. Does the trick for me, at least.That's impressive.
I'm going to suggest niaciniamide to a friend of mine. Can it be used PRN?
- Scott
Posted by Christ_empowered on August 11, 2015, at 16:04:51
In reply to Re: natural-substitute-for-the-benzodiazepines » Christ_empowered, posted by SLS on August 11, 2015, at 14:04:22
I don't think its a PRN thing. Niacin and niacinamide, in high doses, boost trypothan levels, for instance. That affects serotonin (somehow...), which helps anxiety and depression for a lot of people. Niacinamide (probably niacin as well) also affects GABA in a benzo-ish sort of way, according to some animal models. Niacin(amide) also functions as an antioxidant at high doses.I sometimes take an additional 1.5 gram time release tablet, for a grand total of 4.5 grams/day. That's rare, though; usually, if I feel anxious, I take a low dose of gabapentin, risperdal for agitation.
Anyway...I recommend it to everybody, and it takes a couple weeks to really, really start working, sort of like an AD, I guess. With instant release capsules, some people get immediate sedation from 500-1,000mgs doses. For me, the time release is ideal because its only 2x daily dosing and there's no stomach irritation or sedation immediately.
Hoffer's protocol called for a high potency B complex 2x daily. He used b-50, I use b-100. You also should take at least 3 grams vitamin C. Personally, I take 12 grams, divided into 2 doses of 6 time release tablets, one dose AM and one dose PM.
In more extensive Orthomolecular protocols, additional vitamins are used. Vitamin E, selenium, zinc, additional b-6, sometimes beta carotene and fish oil. It appeals to me because its often a do it yourself thing, with lots of flexibility. C+E have synergy, so I think it'd be a good idea to take it. With E, look for natural form w/ mixed tocopherols. Probably cheaper online than in a normal vitamin store. Hoffer used (I think...) 800 IU or so per day, taken with a high fat meal. I personally take 1,000 IU day, and that's worked nicely for me.
I'm rambling...anyway, old school Orthomolecular (for me, Hoffer, not so much Pauling) has helped me tremendously. Proper meds are important, but OM seems to improve my quality of life, for surprisingly not too much $$$$.
Posted by stan_the_man70 on August 12, 2015, at 1:29:03
In reply to Re: natural-substitute-for-the-benzodiazepines, posted by Christ_empowered on August 11, 2015, at 16:04:51
C_E,
don't have a problem with your OM approach...
but supplements cost a lost of money, and need to check for potency bioavailibity purity absorbability and so on...what about people who cannot afford supplements or not available
also sometimes the effects of supplements wears off over a period of time and may not be so effective, or may cause side effects...
could you recommend an OM diet - based on foods and drinks?
Like a salad, soup, smoothie, juice, sprouted, fermented, steamed, cereal and so on?something that is a whole food (along with all the nutrients), something easy to digest, easy to absorb and easily prepared...
in keeping with the OM approach...
thanks for reading...
>
> I don't think its a PRN thing. Niacin and niacinamide, in high doses, boost trypothan levels, for instance. That affects serotonin (somehow...), which helps anxiety and depression for a lot of people. Niacinamide (probably niacin as well) also affects GABA in a benzo-ish sort of way, according to some animal models. Niacin(amide) also functions as an antioxidant at high doses.
>
> I sometimes take an additional 1.5 gram time release tablet, for a grand total of 4.5 grams/day. That's rare, though; usually, if I feel anxious, I take a low dose of gabapentin, risperdal for agitation.
>
> Anyway...I recommend it to everybody, and it takes a couple weeks to really, really start working, sort of like an AD, I guess. With instant release capsules, some people get immediate sedation from 500-1,000mgs doses. For me, the time release is ideal because its only 2x daily dosing and there's no stomach irritation or sedation immediately.
>
> Hoffer's protocol called for a high potency B complex 2x daily. He used b-50, I use b-100. You also should take at least 3 grams vitamin C. Personally, I take 12 grams, divided into 2 doses of 6 time release tablets, one dose AM and one dose PM.
>
> In more extensive Orthomolecular protocols, additional vitamins are used. Vitamin E, selenium, zinc, additional b-6, sometimes beta carotene and fish oil. It appeals to me because its often a do it yourself thing, with lots of flexibility. C+E have synergy, so I think it'd be a good idea to take it. With E, look for natural form w/ mixed tocopherols. Probably cheaper online than in a normal vitamin store. Hoffer used (I think...) 800 IU or so per day, taken with a high fat meal. I personally take 1,000 IU day, and that's worked nicely for me.
>
> I'm rambling...anyway, old school Orthomolecular (for me, Hoffer, not so much Pauling) has helped me tremendously. Proper meds are important, but OM seems to improve my quality of life, for surprisingly not too much $$$$.
Posted by stan_the_man70 on August 12, 2015, at 5:55:01
In reply to Re: natural-substitute-for-the-benzodiazepines, posted by Christ_empowered on August 11, 2015, at 16:04:51
Which supplement companies do you find reliable? The only one that I know of that has a full range of products seems to be Garden of Life. I don't like to use supplements so I am not sure of supplement companies. Other supplement companies have specialty products or specialty formulations. Not sure if supplement companies source everything from the same suppliers.
Posted by SLS on August 12, 2015, at 6:16:04
In reply to which supplement company? » Christ_empowered, posted by stan_the_man70 on August 12, 2015, at 5:55:01
NAC (N-acetylcysteine) has demonstrated efficacy in depression, but it can take several months to produce an improvement. It has been recommended by at least one clinical investigator at Harvard. I will probably try it once I straighten out my dosage of Lamicatal. NAC and Lamictal might work together synergistidally because they both act on and modulate glutamatergic neurotransmission.
NAC is also a powerful anti-oxidant as it is converted to glutathione in the body. It is neuroprotective, and can help prevent glutamate excitotoxicity.
- Scott
Posted by Christ_empowered on August 12, 2015, at 11:28:18
In reply to which supplement company? » Christ_empowered, posted by stan_the_man70 on August 12, 2015, at 5:55:01
I mix and match. OM is mostly basic supplements, so I just use vitacost brand for all that (any number of online stores also have less expensive house brands).
Ummm...for Astaxanthin, I go for Nutrex, BioAstin. I take the 12mgs/day capsule. For soy isoflavones, I once went for Life Extension, but now take NOW brand. They both seem good enough, but NOW is about 1/2 the cost, so...yeah...
For niacinamide, the only time release tablet I could find is source naturals. I also take source naturals taurine, which is reasonably priced (the big, 240 count bottle of 1,000mgs capsules runs about $15, if that).
Like I said, most of my supplements are fairly basic. Vitamin C (time release), b-100, selenium, zinc, natural form E w/ mixed tocopherols. You can find any number of companies making those. I think its when you want a more specialty product that you get higher $$$ per supplement.
For instance, I used to take BioSil. Its stabilized silica or silicone that's supposed to help your bones and also boost levels of keratin, elastin, and collagen throughout your body. There are no other manufacturers because its patented. So, I had to shell out (BTW--its a decent supplement..the liquid is a lot cheaper than the capsules...).
So..yeah...basically, I don't take anything now that's too expensive by itself. The natural form beta carotene w/ mixed carotenoids and the astaxanthin are kinda $$$ (especially the astaxanthin), but I could probably get them cheaper...if I wasn't stuck on the brand name. I like the Nutrex for astaxanthin and the Natural Factors Beta Care-all for the beta carotene. Personal preference, probably at least somewhat irrational.
Posted by Christ_empowered on August 12, 2015, at 11:34:06
In reply to dont have problem with OM approach, posted by stan_the_man70 on August 12, 2015, at 1:29:03
Ummm...well, yeah, the cost of supplements can be an issue. Not everybody really needs full on Orthomolecular. I probably overdo it myself. I think if a lot of people would just take a couple grams time release c and a high potency b complex per day, that alone would help with a lot of problems.I can't think of any food-based way to do OM. OM is based on the idea that you mega dose vitamins to get drug like effects. For instance, I take 3 grams niacinamide per day. According to the label on my bottle, that's 15,000% of the RDA, or 150 times the RDA. Assuming that most people meet the RDA, in 3 days I consume more niacinamide than many (most?) people do in 1 year. There's no way to do that with food.
OM can be adjusted for anybody, basically. Hoffer's basic program--3 grams C, b-50 2x dailly, niacin or niacinamide--isn't all that expensive. I just mega dosed everything and added in other things because I was State Mental Hopsital material until recently, so...I figured...extra crazy=extra suppelements.
Not everybody likes OM. The mega doses, like I wrote above, turn the vitamins more into drugs than just vitamins, and I think a lot of people don't care for that approach. OM docs just think that using vitamins as drugs is safer and cheaper than using drugs for all our problems.
Posted by stan_the_man70 on August 12, 2015, at 12:52:47
In reply to Re: which supplement company?, posted by Christ_empowered on August 12, 2015, at 11:28:18
here's a link to a niacin supplement I tried... I liked it better than some of the other niacin I have used...
http://www.enadh.com/shop/
let me know if you heard of it...
It's some kind of patented stabilized form by Dr Birkmayeranother form of niacin treatment...
http://www.brainrestorationtherapy.com/
I think I had posted this link before... so please ignore if you already looked at it.
There are other treatment centers.
I have read really good reviews about this - but I haven't tried it myself since I am not taking medication currently.
Another center:
http://www.kenstarrmd.com/#!brain-restoration-therapy/c1h2f
Very optimistic review
--------------
Treatment usually involves a 10 day course of IV therapy. Each day a nurse starts the intravenous infusion of NAD. Additionally, there is an oral supplement program that goes along with the detox program. Withdrawal symptoms improve immediately with the infusion. The drip is not sedating, nor does it contain opiates or any other addicting substances. The infusion can last between 4 and 8 hours depending on the protocol. Some patients may not tolerate the usual drip rate and require longer sessions. Patients go home at the end of the day.
---------------
Opiates and Alcohol
10 day Treatment
oxycontin, heroin, morphine, percocet, vicodin, norco, tramadol, diaudid, suboxone
Stimulants
10-15 day Treatment
Amphetamines, Speed, Crack, Crystal Meth, Cocaine
Benzodiazpines
13-15 Days
Valium, Xanax, Klonopin, Clonazepam, AtivanThe response to to these patients is slightly less predictable but overall very effective. These patients benefit from a few more days than opiate patients
Our Clinic fee for the NAD treatment is $1100 per day or $11,000 for the 10 day treament. Treatment costs include all medications, supplements, physician fees, take home meds ( if needed), counseling sessions, and group sessions. Transportation to local lodging can also be included if desired. We can bill your insurance company for the treatment.
Posted by stan_the_man70 on August 12, 2015, at 13:01:49
In reply to Re: dont have problem with OM approach, posted by Christ_empowered on August 12, 2015, at 11:34:06
Nutrient Power: Heal Your Biochemistry and Heal Your Brain Kindle Edition
by Dr. William J. Walsh (Author)Anyone read this book? It has really good reviews on amazon.com.
It's a nutrient approach to mental health.
Read any better books on nutrients?
thankslink to the same book from Walsh Research Institute
http://www.walshinstitute.org/nutrient-power.html"With Nutrient Power, Bill Walsh joins Linus Pauling, Carl Pfeiffer, and Abe Hoffer on the Mount Rushmore of behavioral nutrition. I was one of those doctors who emerged from medical school blind to nutrition. Bill Walsh opened my eyes to unsuspected nutritional needs, which saved my son. This could happen in your family, too." - Dr. Woody McGinnis, autism researcher
Posted by bleauberry on August 16, 2015, at 16:52:55
In reply to Treatment for Benzodiazepine Withdrawal, posted by stan_the_man70 on August 10, 2015, at 2:33:33
There are things in that recipe that can be problematic, including dose sizes, purpose, dose frequency, and withdrawal.
No predetermined dose is going to be a good dose for everyone. Genetics, weight, metabolism, you know?
It is not wise to start a cocktail like that from scratch because if something goes wrong or there is an intolerable side effect or something, there is no idea which ingredient is at fault, or whether maybe a dose is too high on one of them. You know? Better to try them individually, just sampling for a day or two each, to see how they react in your body, and then go from there, until doing a cocktail like that.
Simpler is better. And cheaper.
Some supplements can have paradoxical, or backward, effects. Theanine is one of those....is generally calming....but in similar fashion as starting an ssri can cause great nervousness....lipoic acid half life is 4 hours and needs to be dosed every 4 hours or else it dumps the toxins where ever it happens to be at that time, they don't make it all the way out....and besides....a benzo addiction is not a toxicity issue so these two should not be intertwined....if someone wants to do chelation with lipoic acid, do it at some other time, not while trying to withdraw from a benzo for pete's sake. On and on.
There are some good ideas in there. The Magnesium, Taurine, good. B vitamins helpful but probably won't feel it.
Better:
Medical marijuana of the couch-lock variety. These can be profoundly effective for a wide variety of addictions. People are even getting off of oxycontin and staying off it, with simple pot. The former destroys lives, the latter improves them. imoor
2 or 3 way combo of Lemon Balm, Passion Flower, Valerian Root.
Add up the money to buy all the stuff on their long recipe list. Now add up the money for these. These are at least as effective, and I may dare say out of personal experience, likely more effective in stunning fashion, and pretty cheap.
I strongly favor treating addiction withdrawals with natural means.
And I strongly favor the promise of Jesus Christ being invited into one's own life. But that is for another forum....
This is the end of the thread.
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