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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Phil on April 17, 2014, at 11:01:28
saw my GP yesterday. My vitamin D was 5. the lowest his nurse had ever seen.
optimal--30-100
insufficient--<20
me--5i check to see how it relates to mi.
Posted by Partlycloudy on April 17, 2014, at 11:47:58
In reply to check your vitamin D, posted by Phil on April 17, 2014, at 11:01:28
> saw my GP yesterday. My vitamin D was 5. the lowest his nurse had ever seen.
>
> optimal--30-100
> insufficient--<20
> me--5
>
> i check to see how it relates to mi.
>
> http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/808138My pdoc had me add vitamin D to my regime the last time I saw her. (I live in Florida with plenty of ambient sunshine.) I might have noticed a slight improvement in my energy level.
PC
Posted by Phillipa on April 17, 2014, at 11:53:41
In reply to Re: check your vitamin D » Phil, posted by Partlycloudy on April 17, 2014, at 11:47:58
Mine was 50 something a few years ago. Take ca & mg with d? How could yours be so low? Phillipa
Posted by Tomatheus on April 17, 2014, at 11:53:51
In reply to check your vitamin D, posted by Phil on April 17, 2014, at 11:01:28
Phil,
I think that your suggestion to get our vitamin D levels checked is a good one. There seems to be some evidence that vitamin D levels are lower in patients with depressive and psychotic disorders than they are in the general population, and from my understanding, there's also some evidence that the vitamin (or hormone, to be more precise) regulates enzymes that are involved in the synthesis of neurotransmitters.
I take vitamin D3 myself after a blood test came back with my level being insufficient (at 21.9 ng/mL). My current trial's been going on for about 2.5 months, and I was taking the D3 for 3.5 months before stopping it a while before I started this trial. I'm noticing what might be the beginning of a response, although I've had some ups and downs energy wise as of late. As of right now, I think that the vitamin D3 might be helping with my hypersomnia more than anything else, but it's still early into my trial.
As you might be able to tell from what I wrote about my response, there seems to be a lot of thinking that supplementing with vitamin D3 tends to take a while (several months, sometimes) to produce results, at least if my understanding is correct. Some doctors like to give their patients "loading doses" consisting of very high doses of the vitamin-hormone for some time before lowering to the maintenance dose to speed up the process of optimizing a person's vitamin D level. Given your extremely low vitamin D level, this might be an option for you. Has your GP or his nurse discussed with you how he wants to proceed with vitamin D supplementation? If he hasn't yet, you might want to ask about the possibility of a loading dose.
At any rate, I'd like to wish you luck with getting your vitamin D up to an optimal level. I hope that you'll notice a reduction in some of your mental illness symptoms in the process.
Take care,
Tomatheus
Posted by Chris O on April 17, 2014, at 14:35:39
In reply to check your vitamin D, posted by Phil on April 17, 2014, at 11:01:28
Phil:
I'm right there with you, brother. I think mine was hovering around 11-15 for a while there, even though I am in sunny southern California and outside a lot. Does not seem to rise much even when I take the D3 supplement. Seems like it's always in the 20s when I get tested. Seems like there could be some relationship (I don't know what, though) between low D and our psychiatric conditions. The doctor I have now is not big on boosting D levels super high as the evidence is so contradictory at this point. (I think studies show both those with very low and very high D levels die sooner.) Oh, what a joy.
Chris
Posted by Phil on April 17, 2014, at 16:53:15
In reply to Re: check your vitamin D, posted by Phillipa on April 17, 2014, at 11:53:41
i just woke up. these dropping lithium naps. diet maybe. i think i read that bipolar can zap your levels but don't quote me on that. :)
Posted by Phil on April 17, 2014, at 17:00:42
In reply to Re: check your vitamin D, posted by Tomatheus on April 17, 2014, at 11:53:51
I've seen my gp for 20 years and he is the best doc. but he seemed conservative with 2000 iu of d3 a day. i've read of people taking tens of thousands. we;ll see. thanks Tomatheus
Posted by Phil on April 17, 2014, at 17:18:27
In reply to Re: check your vitamin D » Phil, posted by Chris O on April 17, 2014, at 14:35:39
well crap, i smoked for decades, now i'm reading that bipolar shortens your expected lifespan by 9.2 years if d3 doesn't get you first.
i read to not wear suntan lotion when out in the sun. i've already had a good sized chunk cut off my nose(plastic surgeon did ok) i'm getting confused. how much vit d were you taking, chris?
Posted by Chris O on April 17, 2014, at 18:00:07
In reply to Re: check your vitamin D » Chris O, posted by Phil on April 17, 2014, at 17:18:27
Phil:
I took a 5000 IU D3 supplement a day for a bit. I think I've had my vitamin D tested, like 5 times now since 2011. It hovers in the mid 20s, no matter what I do. One time it was in the low 40s. Not sure why. I think once it was in the low 30s. The other three times it was in the low 20s and teens. I'm out in the sun a lot. Heck, it's been summer in southern California for the last 15 years. No other seasons, really. But I keep my low vitamin D even taking 5000 IU a day for months at a time. Nice.
Chris
Posted by Tomatheus on April 17, 2014, at 19:37:53
In reply to Re: check your vitamin D » Tomatheus, posted by Phil on April 17, 2014, at 17:00:42
Phil,
Thank you for your reply. My understanding is that taking 10,000 IU or more of vitamin D3 a day will eventually push a person's vitamin D level too high, if one stays at that dose for a long time. Having said that, some people do take loading doses exceeding 10,000 IU for a limited period of time so they can get their vitamin D level into the optimal range more quickly than they would if they were just to start out taking a maintenance dose. But I think that Chris O was correct in saying that too much vitamin D can be harmful. Most experts seem to think that a vitamin D level of 40 to 60 ng/mL (or perhaps 40 to 70 ng/mL, depending on which expert you ask) is optimal, and if my understanding is correct, the doctors who advise that their patients take high loading doses only want their patients to take high doses temporarily so they can get into the optimal range quickly.
I tend to agree with your assessment that your GP was probably conservative in advising you to take 2,000 IU of vitamin D3 a day, with your level being at 5 ng/mL. Maybe your doctor figures that if you just get your vitamin D level up a bit that you'll have more energy, which will lead you to spend more time outside, allowing you to get even more vitamin D from the sun. At any rate, you could always take a higher dose later on if it turns out that 2,000 IU isn't enough to raise your vitamin D level into the optimal range. I just hope that that doesn't leave you waiting too long for any therapeutic benefits that may emerge from supplementing with vitamin D3.
Well, thanks again for responding to my reply, and good luck with the D3.
Tomatheus
Posted by ed_uk2010 on April 18, 2014, at 5:25:14
In reply to check your vitamin D, posted by Phil on April 17, 2014, at 11:01:28
> saw my GP yesterday. My vitamin D was 5. the lowest his nurse had ever seen.
2000 units per day will take rather a long time to get you back into the reference range. Maybe about a year.
Recently, in the UK, we are using large weekly doses to speed up the process, followed by a maintenance dose. For example, with your very low level you might be prescribed 2 x 20 000 unit capsules once weekly for 3 months then retest. If normal, a maintenance dose of 800-2000 units per day might be prescribed. If still low, the high dose would be continued for a few more months. You can buy the high doses from a pharmacy here, I assume you can too.
Posted by Phil on April 18, 2014, at 13:09:55
In reply to Re: check your vitamin D » Phil, posted by ed_uk2010 on April 18, 2014, at 5:25:14
I think my doctor said to check it in 6 months. I've seen him for 20 years and i trust him. still i wish it was higher. i have to make up the difference by getting sun, without sunscreen, as often as possible and get better foods.
seems like every related website has different levels. thanks
Posted by Chris O on April 18, 2014, at 14:42:06
In reply to Re: check your vitamin D » ed_uk2010, posted by Phil on April 18, 2014, at 13:09:55
Phil:
I don't know where you live, but as an experiment, you should try to go out in the sun as much as possible for the next few months. Then, if your vitamin D levels still test low, you'll know something else is coming into play. I think it's only supposed to take, like, an hour of sunlight to get massive levels of vitamin D. I easily get that everyday and my levels are still low. There's definitely something else going on with me. One possibility I've always batted around is my massive consumption of green tea and yerba matte. I know that both of those have large amounts of fluoride, which I think can contribute to vitamin D deficiency. Good luck!
Chris
Posted by Phil on April 18, 2014, at 15:29:03
In reply to Re: check your vitamin D » Phil, posted by Chris O on April 18, 2014, at 14:42:06
thanks. i live in austin and we get a lot of sun. it gets extremely hot so i'll have to do it in the morning.
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on April 18, 2014, at 18:44:38
In reply to check your vitamin D, posted by Phil on April 17, 2014, at 11:01:28
I have taken a multivitamin (400iu) and a vitamin d pill (1000iu) every day for years, so I'm assuming my levels are fine
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on April 18, 2014, at 18:50:35
In reply to Re: check your vitamin D » Chris O, posted by Phil on April 18, 2014, at 15:29:03
Phil, it depends where you live as to whether sitting in the sun will give you a mega boost of D - in Boston, for six months of the year you will make no vitamin d, because no UV light of the right wavelength reaches the earths surface there or futhur north.
As for me, I live in the tropics (Darwin, Australia) and apparently you need to expose your face and hands for 5 minutes a day here to make 1000iu of D
If I lived in northern or southern latitudes, at the very least I'd be taking a multi with 400iu of D, and likely more
Posted by Phillipa on April 18, 2014, at 20:26:50
In reply to Re: check your vitamin D, posted by jono_in_adelaide on April 18, 2014, at 18:50:35
I've read that 30 minutes of no sunscreen in the sun is the maximum before the risk of skin cancer? Phillipa
Posted by Phil on April 18, 2014, at 20:48:08
In reply to Re: check your vitamin D, posted by Phillipa on April 18, 2014, at 20:26:50
i don't think it takes long. when i was 13 my stepfather put me to work on the 6000 acre farm. my first tractor had no shade at all. ten hour days for $7 and free skin cancer.
i wanted to mention that i've gone from 900 to 600mg lithium. i took a nap at 2 today and just woke up. 8:30. seems backwards.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on April 19, 2014, at 6:58:54
In reply to Re: check your vitamin D » ed_uk2010, posted by Phil on April 18, 2014, at 13:09:55
>I think my doctor said to check it in 6 months. I've seen him for 20 years and i trust him. still i wish it was higher.
It will be a slow process on 1000 units per day but I don't suppose there's any great rush. There won't be any side effects so you'll just need to remember to take it daily (obviously!)
Posted by Chris O on April 19, 2014, at 10:28:22
In reply to Re: check your vitamin D » Phil, posted by ed_uk2010 on April 19, 2014, at 6:58:54
Ed:
Not to highjack Phil's post, but you seem to know a lot about Vitamin D, so I have to ask: Do you think a substantial daily consumption of green day (say, a quart or more a day) for 12-15 years could be lowering my Vitamin D levels? I've been drinking an American brand of bottled green tea called Honest Tea since the late 1990s. My D levels are consistently in the 20s and I live in sunny southern California. I know that tea has a lot of fluoride so I was thinking it might be a possible cause.
Chris
Posted by ed_uk2010 on April 19, 2014, at 12:17:39
In reply to Re: check your vitamin D » ed_uk2010, posted by Chris O on April 19, 2014, at 10:28:22
> Ed:
>
> Not to highjack Phil's post, but you seem to know a lot about Vitamin D, so I have to ask: Do you think a substantial daily consumption of green day (say, a quart or more a day) for 12-15 years could be lowering my Vitamin D levels? I've been drinking an American brand of bottled green tea called Honest Tea since the late 1990s. My D levels are consistently in the 20s and I live in sunny southern California. I know that tea has a lot of fluoride so I was thinking it might be a possible cause.
>
> ChrisHi Chris,
I don't know the fluoride content of that product specifically, but tea in general is a source of fluoride. Very high fluoride consumption may lead to dental and skeletal fluorosis, rather than vitamin D deficiency specifically. Those who swallow their toothpaste are at greater risk. Are your teeth normal? You can see photos of dental fluorosis online.
I did find a report of skeletal fluorosis in a woman who drunk 1 to 2 gallons of tea per day. Your intake does not sound unusually high. I doubt you have any reason to be concerned. Perhaps just cut down slightly if you are? Green tea is supposed to be beneficial for cognitive function however.
Fluorosis leads to high (rather than low) bone mineral density, but the bone is abnormal in quality and therefore weaker than expected and prone to fracture.
Posted by Phillipa on April 19, 2014, at 20:20:45
In reply to Re: check your vitamin D » Chris O, posted by ed_uk2010 on April 19, 2014, at 12:17:39
Google says it only develops in children under 8 years old before all their teeth erupt from their gums. Safe from this at least. Phillipa
Posted by ed_uk2010 on April 20, 2014, at 7:36:23
In reply to Re: check your vitamin D » ed_uk2010, posted by Phillipa on April 19, 2014, at 20:20:45
>Google says it only develops in children under 8 years old before all their teeth erupt from their gums. Safe from this at least. Phillipa
Makes sense. So, only skeletal fluorosis develops in adults. Thanks PJ xx
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