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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 4 to 28 of 28. Go back in thread:
Posted by gadchik on March 14, 2014, at 15:20:28
In reply to Re: finished with meds » jpa, posted by Ronnjee on March 14, 2014, at 12:39:00
I also wish to be med free, and accept whatever my brain chooses to throw my way. But I will fight back with exercise, meditation and whatever I can do to claw my way to sanity, w/o chemicals...
Posted by phidippus on March 14, 2014, at 18:39:01
In reply to finished with meds, posted by jpa on March 14, 2014, at 11:13:19
what are you trying to treat? The headaches or the anxiety? Or both?
Eric
Posted by jpa on March 15, 2014, at 7:37:14
In reply to Re: finished with meds » jpa, posted by phidippus on March 14, 2014, at 18:39:01
They are the same disease. So both I guess. It's not curable though, so it really is beside the point. I think I was better being meds free, without the false hope that they bring. I'm down to 50mg of clomipramine and 45mg of remeron at night. I'll taper off remeron first.
Posted by Guy on March 15, 2014, at 14:47:26
In reply to finished with meds, posted by jpa on March 14, 2014, at 11:13:19
Your story sounds sooo much like mine! It's been 20 years for me...and I, too, have constant headache. If it weren't for crushing rebound insomnia I would have been free of meds a long time ago. I am currently on benzos plus gabapentin and have no idea of how to get off without experiencing weeks of excruciating insomnia. The sleep I get on pills is crap. I firmly believe my GAD and headache are exacerbated by the fact that I get little or no stage 4 sleep (the restorative kind that is the most important for good health). If only I had know this would be a life sentence! Send me a babblemail if you would like to discuss.
Posted by phidippus on March 15, 2014, at 14:57:52
In reply to Re: finished with meds » phidippus, posted by jpa on March 15, 2014, at 7:37:14
Headaches are neurological, anxiety is psychiatric. Focus on getting one under control before the other.
What antidepressants have you taken for your anxiety?
What medicines have you tried for the headaches?
Eric
Posted by phidippus on March 15, 2014, at 15:01:53
In reply to Re: finished with meds, posted by Guy on March 15, 2014, at 14:47:26
>I firmly believe my GAD and headache are exacerbated by the fact that I get little or no stage 4 sleep
Gabitril improves stage 4 sleep.
Eric
Posted by jpa on March 15, 2014, at 15:26:50
In reply to Re: finished with meds » jpa, posted by phidippus on March 15, 2014, at 14:57:52
Eric,
I've tried most conventional headache meds. I've visited headache clinics and specialists to no avail. Some of the most powerful headache medications are antidepressants, like TCAs. My problem is psychiatric first and foremost. If I fix the anxiety, or whatever it is, I fix the problem. But I'm at a turning point right now, the meds have failed me and now I don't know what to do next. Get off the meds and suffer, but to what end? Plus I have keep my job. There are no easy answers. I thought that maybe what I should do is go off the meds entirely and wait a year before reinitiating something like clomipramine. Thoughts?
Posted by phidippus on March 15, 2014, at 15:36:59
In reply to Re: finished with meds » phidippus, posted by jpa on March 15, 2014, at 15:26:50
I would like to know which medications you have used to treat the anxiety.
I'd also like to know the extent of your anxiety and what symptoms you have.
I am long time sufferer of OCD and it took several years to find a winning combination of drugs.
Eric
Posted by jpa on March 15, 2014, at 15:46:38
In reply to Re: finished with meds » jpa, posted by phidippus on March 15, 2014, at 15:36:59
I've tried most tcas, remeron, most ssris, antipsychotics...too many to list really. Latest ones were lyrica, baclofen and memantine. I found great success with phenibut, but as I am sure you know, that's not a long-term option.
Best way to describe the anxiety is that it's there in the background not associated to anything in particular. Unable to sleep without help of medication. It all started very abruptly 25 years ago when I had a nervous breakdown.
Posted by SLS on March 15, 2014, at 16:18:41
In reply to Re: finished with meds » jpa, posted by phidippus on March 15, 2014, at 14:57:52
> Headaches are neurological, anxiety is psychiatric. Focus on getting one under control before the other.
Yes. In some people, depression and anxiety can produce headaches. This is what is known as a psychosomatic effect. "Psychosomatic" does not mean that a physical condition is imagined. It is very real. It is simply that a psychiatric condition can trigger a physical one. Some cases of heart disease are being investigated as being a psychosomatic consequence of Major Depressive Disorder (MDD). People with MDD have a statistically higher risk of heart disease. The physiology is complicated, but we know that chronic stress makes heart disease worse. This is a very real psychosomatic effect.
What type of headache? How often?
- Scott
Posted by jpa on March 15, 2014, at 16:29:48
In reply to Re: finished with meds, posted by SLS on March 15, 2014, at 16:18:41
The headache is there all the time. I think it is intimately linked to poor fragmented sleep. I'm just wondering if going off the meds for a time and then reinitiating medication might help.
Posted by Guy on March 15, 2014, at 17:17:11
In reply to finished with meds, posted by jpa on March 14, 2014, at 11:13:19
If you ever manage to get off meds it will take weeks if not months for your natural sleep architecture to return. It is an extremely painful process. Once your natural sleep has returned, I wouldn't ever reinstate psychotropic meds--I'd run like hell in the opposite direction and never look back.
Posted by Phillipa on March 15, 2014, at 20:24:50
In reply to Re: finished with meds, posted by Guy on March 15, 2014, at 17:17:11
Same here 42 years and fear brain has just adapted to needing the meds for sleep. Funny thing is that during the daytime I tend to keep feeling better as the meds wear off. Hence I think off would be the ticket. Phillipa
Posted by Beckett on March 16, 2014, at 22:10:02
In reply to finished with meds, posted by jpa on March 14, 2014, at 11:13:19
Hi JPA,
I'm with you. I'm pretty much throwing in the pharmaceutical towel....
My symptoms are worse than when I started psych drugs. I'm dx'd with GAD among other things. I see a correlation between length of time spent under pharmaceutical treatment and the 'conditions' garnered. Some people would argue that this is just the course of progressive diseases....
Best to you.
Posted by phidippus on March 17, 2014, at 12:53:50
In reply to Re: finished with meds, posted by jpa on March 15, 2014, at 15:46:38
Have you tried Depakote?
Eric
Posted by jpa on March 17, 2014, at 13:41:55
In reply to Re: finished with meds » jpa, posted by phidippus on March 17, 2014, at 12:53:50
Yes, it proved ineffective
Posted by phidippus on March 17, 2014, at 14:25:17
In reply to Re: finished with meds » phidippus, posted by jpa on March 17, 2014, at 13:41:55
Have you tried surgery?
Eric
Posted by stargazer2 on March 20, 2014, at 22:35:24
In reply to finished with meds, posted by jpa on March 14, 2014, at 11:13:19
Meds are just experiemental anyway and only the drug companies win by trying to convince all of us that they have the answer. In my 30 years of trying meds, almost none of them have improved my life significantly with the exception of the MAOis
when they were the original formulas. Even the MAO's don't help much anymore. Treatment for depression is a real sham. I wish I knew now what I thought for 30 years as I wouldn't have gone through all the med trials and life robbing effects.We are no further along with conquering this illness, might as well have cancer, it is as bad. Of course, this is only in the most severe intractable cases, of which I am lucky to be a member.
Thanks alot medical science.
Posted by Phillipa on March 21, 2014, at 18:20:00
In reply to Re: finished with meds, posted by stargazer2 on March 20, 2014, at 22:35:24
Yes you are correct from what I have witnessed. Phillipa
Posted by jpa on March 21, 2014, at 22:08:32
In reply to Re: finished with meds, posted by stargazer2 on March 20, 2014, at 22:35:24
Wrong, it's worst than cancer. With cancer you have a fight and if you lose, it's lights out. The fight is over. With depression or anxiety, you have fight and if you lose, you get to wake up the day (that's if you slept that night). The nightmare never ends, it just keeps getting worst.And nobody knows any better. To the outside world, well you just look a little tired.
Can anybody else identify with those words?
Posted by stargazer2 on March 21, 2014, at 22:46:39
In reply to Re: finished with meds » stargazer2, posted by jpa on March 21, 2014, at 22:08:32
Sadly only us and many of "us" even on this board have no idea what "we" are even talking about...unless you are on the suicidal fast train to death, those with so called "depression" have no idea what it is to be on the train. It amazes me that many on this board even come here unless its for curiosity or amusement. What I would give to be able to decide if I want to take a treatment or not based on weight gain or loss of libido, you have no idea what "depression" really is all about. There are 50 shades of gray of depression and the darkest, blackest coal gray is all I see lately. How to kill myself is all I think of lately.
Posted by SLS on March 22, 2014, at 0:36:29
In reply to Re: finished with meds, posted by stargazer2 on March 21, 2014, at 22:46:39
> Sadly only us and many of "us" even on this board have no idea what "we" are even talking about...unless you are on the suicidal fast train to death, those with so called "depression" have no idea what it is to be on the train.
Yes.
> It amazes me that many on this board even come here unless its for curiosity or amusement.
Sadly, you are probably right.
> What I would give to be able to decide if I want to take a treatment or not based on weight gain or loss of libido, you have no idea what "depression" really is all about.
It is quite a luxury to be able to choose among medications based entirely upon side effects because efficacy is not an issue.
> There are 50 shades of gray of depression and the darkest, blackest coal gray is all I see lately. How to kill myself is all I think of lately.
What, if anything, would you need to hear in order to reduce your thoughts of suicide?
Historically, just knowing that there is a drug that I haven't tried yet was enough to keep me from approaching the precipice. I am not so sure about now, though. Currently, I am improved enough for the suicidal ideations to subside. I don't know how I would react should I be cast into the black hell again without any way to feel better. I am not as resilient as I used to be.
I am placing a certain amount of hope in deep TMS (transcranial magnetic stimulation) treatments. I might try Brintellix (vortioxetine) before pursuing the TMS, though. I don't yet know where there is a Brainsway deep TMS device available or how I would pay for it.
I wish that I could reduce your suffering and watch you come alive. You never know where your healing will come from.
I'm glad that you chose to survive another day.
- Scott
Posted by phidippus on March 23, 2014, at 15:17:50
In reply to Re: finished with meds, posted by stargazer2 on March 21, 2014, at 22:46:39
Have you thought of ECT?
Eric
Posted by stargazer2 on March 23, 2014, at 17:22:43
In reply to Re: finished with meds » stargazer2, posted by phidippus on March 23, 2014, at 15:17:50
Been there done that...never again! Death would be welcome over having the memory loss and confusion, not to mention the suicidal thinking that was not touched by it. They will eventually say that ECT is a barbaric and ineffective treatment for depression...it just screws you up so that you forget you are depressed. Studies are not accurate. I worked in an ECT dept and saw the effects of it first hand....poor outcomes but those that have it done are led to believe there is nothing other than ECT that can be done so they acquiesce and do it. That is what happened to me.
Thanks for trying to help me though.
Posted by Chris O on March 25, 2014, at 23:38:28
In reply to finished with meds, posted by jpa on March 14, 2014, at 11:13:19
jpa:
Not much to offer other than I totally empathize. I say the same thing to myself every day: I feel like I am living in a prison of my own mind, and it's fr*gg*ng exhausting!
This is the end of the thread.
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