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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by HomelyCygnet on January 18, 2014, at 10:55:49
Questionable Quizzes
Adults searching for information on A.D.H.D. encounter websites with short quizzes that can encourage normal people to think they might have it. Many such tests are sponsored by drug companies in ways hidden or easily missed.
Could you have A.D.H.D.? beckons one quiz, sponsored by Shire, on the website everydayhealth.com. Six questions ask how often someone has trouble in matters like getting things in order, remembering appointments or getting started on projects.
A user who splits answers evenly between rarely and sometimes receives the result A.D.H.D. Possible. Five answers of sometimes and one often tell the user, A.D.H.D. May Be Likely.
In a nationwide telephone poll conducted by The Times in early December, 1,106 adults took the quiz. Almost half scored in the range that would have told them A.D.H.D. may be possible or likely.
About 570,000 people took the EverydayHealth test after a 2011 advertisement starring Mr. Levine of Maroon 5 sponsored by Shire, Chadd and another advocacy group, according to the website Medical Marketing & Media. A similar test on the website for Concerta prompted L2ThinkTank.com, which assesses pharmaceutical marketing, to award the campaign its top rating, Genius.
John Grohol, a Boston-area psychologist who licensed the test to EverydayHealth, said such screening tools do not make a diagnosis; they merely give you a little push into looking into whether you have A.D.H.D. Other doctors countered that, given many studies showing that doctors are strongly influenced by their patients image of what ails them, such tests invite too many patients and doctors to see the disorder where it is not.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/15/health/the-selling-of-attention-deficit-disorder.html?_r=0
O dear is that Psychcentral's John Grohol whose ethical standards so outshone mr hsuing's for so very long? O say it ain't so
So half the population possibly or likely "ill"? And a potential market for Big Pharma's wares? A veritable epidemic. Pass the amphetamines? Maybe they should just make them over the counter?
And of course sites like Babble and psychcentral keep drumming out the message for free
Posted by rjlockhart37 on January 18, 2014, at 12:09:13
In reply to Questionable Quizzes overdiagnosing ADD, posted by HomelyCygnet on January 18, 2014, at 10:55:49
ADHD is MAJOR in doctor diagnosis today, Adderall is so popluar in many doctors, but people just go and say they have ADD and get it. I have had my days of abuse of it, and dexedrine....it's sad for me because i have every symptom of it, not ADHD anymore, just ADD the inattentive type. the only thing i have is Nuvigil....and Prozac and Lamictal....it doesnt really effect dopamine like tradition stimulants, Ritilin and Adderall....it's been so hard for me over the years, when i was ripped off dexedrine, the hell i went through, the depression, i spend 4 years till now currently in a drifting mode, i can't do things that other people are cabable of....it's hard to keep a job because i am so disorganized and lack of focus....but you know, life is not fair, i have to deal with it.....
Adderall is widely known for abuse, i have no idea if they will remove it from the market as they did the previous amphetamines, benzedrine, and black mallies....
america is high on adderall if they know where to get it
r
Posted by Christ_empowered on January 18, 2014, at 13:31:26
In reply to Questionable Quizzes overdiagnosing ADD, posted by HomelyCygnet on January 18, 2014, at 10:55:49
I think ADD is nonsense, anyway. Most people like amphetamines. Amphetamines will help most people be more sociable, work a little faster, lose a little weight, etc. They've been on the market in various forms (Benzedrine, psychedrine, etc.) since the late 20s, sooo........I don't see what TBFD is. I'm with Szasz on drugs; legalize 'em. Not just fun drugs, either. I think pharmaceuticals should be available in safe, standardized form at any number of outlets, w/o a prescription. One reason drug prices are so high...its not a free market. Love free market forces? Legalize drugs.
To say we "overdiagnose" ADD/ADHD would be to say that there is such a thing as ADD/ADHD. Some people just do better on speed or kiddie cocaine than they do without it. Why should some people get lots of Rx speed for cheap, thanks to government and private insurance, while others go to prison for making/selling/distributing homemade versions of the same thing? Go to jail because nobody gave you a permission slip for your speed? Lame.
Anyway, the way I see it, making all drugs legal, safe, and readily available would drive down costs and also force drug makers to actually *help* people and make products that *stand out*. Why spend $$$$ on new atypical xyz when you can spend 1/10-1/2 on something that does the same thing and may have more tolerable side effects? Or..why take either, when a hefty dose of Valium, Nembutal, opiates, etc. might do the same thing and actually *feel* good ?
If drugs were all legalized and readily available tomorrow, I'd probably alter my meds, but stay on something. Personal choice...just as some people do better on uppers than off, I do better on anti-agitation meds than I do off. 1 life to live, let me live it properly medicated.
Would I take Abilify? Probably not. I'd find an honest doctor to help me make a decision about staying sane while keeping costs down and avoiding unpleasant sides.
As a final note, I think a lot of "Adult ADD" is what Marx calls "alienation of the worker" in late stage capitalism. There's not much dignity or meaning to labor anymore, and its boring stuff these days, anyway. Who wouldn't need some speed?
Posted by SLS on January 18, 2014, at 13:54:38
In reply to Questionable Quizzes overdiagnosing ADD, posted by HomelyCygnet on January 18, 2014, at 10:55:49
> O dear is that Psychcentral's John Grohol whose ethical standards so outshone mr hsuing's for so very long? O say it ain't so
You should see his quiz for narcissistic personality disorder. I think it is incumbent upon a narcissist to find fault with it, along with its creator. Narcissists are too smart to fall for it anyway. They know exactly how to answer the questions.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on January 18, 2014, at 13:57:50
In reply to Re: Questionable Quizzes overdiagnosing ADD, posted by SLS on January 18, 2014, at 13:54:38
> > O dear is that Psychcentral's John Grohol whose ethical standards so outshone mr hsuing's for so very long? O say it ain't so
>
> You should see his quiz for narcissistic personality disorder. I think it is incumbent upon a narcissist to find fault with it, along with its creator. Narcissists are too smart to fall for it anyway. They know exactly how to answer the questions....to protect themselves from reality. After all, no one is to know that they are a narcissist, not even them.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on January 18, 2014, at 15:10:38
In reply to Re: Questionable Quizzes overdiagnosing ADD, posted by Christ_empowered on January 18, 2014, at 13:31:26
CDC stuff about ADD / ADHD:
http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/index.html
It includes the DSM 5 diagnostic criteria, epidemiological statistics, and treatments.
I don't think the CDC can fully account for the increase in the rate of diagnosed ADHD over the last 20 years. Certainly, the media must play some part in the increase in parental awareness.
This is the Grohol online quiz for adult ADD / ADHD:
"Use this quiz to help determine if you need to see a mental health professional for diagnosis and treatment of ADD or ADHD as an adult."
http://psychcentral.com/addquiz.htm
I am curious to know what people who actually have ADD / ADHD think of this quiz.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on January 18, 2014, at 18:18:40
In reply to Re: Questionable Quizzes overdiagnosing ADD » Christ_empowered, posted by SLS on January 18, 2014, at 15:10:38
I don't but could convince myself I do as some of the questions to me are normal things people do. Like forgetting appointments or something in a store? PJ
Posted by SLS on January 18, 2014, at 18:29:21
In reply to Re: Questionable Quizzes overdiagnosing ADD » SLS, posted by Phillipa on January 18, 2014, at 18:18:40
> I don't but could convince myself I do as some of the questions to me are normal things people do. Like forgetting appointments or something in a store? PJ
Of course! If the quiz is worthwhile, it is the final score that is significant. Without divulging your score, did you feel that it was reflective of what you know about yourself?
I haven't taken it yet.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on January 18, 2014, at 18:37:45
In reply to Re: Questionable Quizzes overdiagnosing ADD » SLS, posted by Phillipa on January 18, 2014, at 18:18:40
> > I don't but could convince myself I do as some of the questions to me are normal things people do. Like forgetting appointments or something in a store? PJ
> Of course! If the quiz is worthwhile, it is the final score that is significant. Without divulging your score, did you feel that it was reflective of what you know about yourself?
>
> I haven't taken it yet.I came up with a score of 16. However, the preponderance of ADHD symptoms were those of inattentive. This makes sense when one has a depressive disorder that manifests with cognitive and memory impairments. Overall, the quiz did what it was supposed to do.
- Scott
Posted by baseball55 on January 18, 2014, at 19:52:29
In reply to Questionable Quizzes overdiagnosing ADD, posted by HomelyCygnet on January 18, 2014, at 10:55:49
Thanks for this link. I want to note the discussion of Biederman at Mass General. Grassley's senate committee found he was taking millions and not reporting it. Not just for ADHD drug companies, but for promoting the diagnosis of bipolar in children as young as 3 and recommending risperdal. His research was funded by the maker of risperdal (can't recall which company at the time).
Another notorious scoundrel is Charles Nemeroff at Emory in Atlanta. Grassley's investigation found that Nemeroff was taking hundreds of thousands from drug companies for trials funded by the NIMH, whose rules specifically prohibited taking money from the companies whose drugs were being studied. He had to fill out forms for the federal money and just lied. Took millions. When an Emory dean confronted him, Nemeroff sent a letter to the Emory president reminding him of what a rainmaker he was and how much research money he brought into the university.
Posted by baseball55 on January 18, 2014, at 20:01:01
In reply to Re: Questionable Quizzes overdiagnosing ADD » Christ_empowered, posted by SLS on January 18, 2014, at 15:10:38
Took the quiz. Scored 18, which said ADD possible. I don't have ADD at all. I answered rarely or never on most questions, sometimes on a few. Who wouldn't? Everyone gets restless or distracted sometimes. This test pathologizes human behavior.
Posted by SLS on January 18, 2014, at 21:05:50
In reply to Re: Questionable Quizzes overdiagnosing ADD » SLS, posted by baseball55 on January 18, 2014, at 20:01:01
> Took the quiz. Scored 18, which said ADD possible.
Exactly. Possible does not mean certain.
What were your subscores?
> I don't have ADD at all.
Neither do I. However, I do have an illness that impairs my cognition and memory. I find it difficult to concentrate. For lack of energy, I don't often finish tasks. This, understandably, is what brought my score up to 14 on the inattentive subscale. There is some overlap in symptoms. If I didn't have depression, my score would have been much lower.
> Everyone gets restless or distracted sometimes.
True.
> This test pathologizes human behavior.
Isn't that a bit harsh? I don't get where you are coming from. Do you believe that ADD / ADHD exists?
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on January 18, 2014, at 21:41:10
In reply to Re: Questionable Quizzes overdiagnosing ADD » Christ_empowered, posted by SLS on January 18, 2014, at 15:10:38
19 hyperactive/impulsive. I have to be doing something or bored. Whether physical or working on ebay or reading. Impulsive is a good thing to mean. As spontaneity to me is good. PJ
Posted by GavinoFelix on January 19, 2014, at 13:57:31
In reply to Re: Questionable Quizzes overdiagnosing ADD » HomelyCygnet, posted by baseball55 on January 18, 2014, at 19:52:29
I do have a ADHDpi diagnosis. And yeah, these 'quizes' seem to bother me. For what it's worth, my diagnosis with ADD was something suggested by my psychologist (who I had been seeing for a year). Then went to psychiatrist and was put through a battery of tests.
I do have a some resentment for those who have just gone to their primary care doc and just 'asked' for whatever psycho-stim they choose. But, at the same time, I'm more accepting of having had to go through the hoops (e.g. growing up with a mother who 'didn't believe in medicine' and basically was forced to live with the fact that I forget everything all the time, or the whole failing out of college twice...) to be prescribed psycho-stims. Because really, what other choice do I have?
Frankly, I think psychostims (when used in 'regularly prescribed amounts') are significantly safer than pill-based narcotics. Which I'm only saying, because it's really frustrating to see them both as Schedule 2. But, yes, I know, this is an extremely comlicated issue...
Posted by baseball55 on January 19, 2014, at 18:49:49
In reply to Re: Questionable Quizzes overdiagnosing ADD » baseball55, posted by SLS on January 18, 2014, at 21:05:50
> > This test pathologizes human behavior.
>
> Isn't that a bit harsh? I don't get where you are coming from. Do you believe that ADD / ADHD exists?
>
>
> - Scott
>
> I guess what I mean is that if I - who am not the least bit ADD - score as possibly having ADD, based on my saying I sometimes or rarely get distracted, then the test is pathologizing normal behavior. For a test to say that you "possibly" have ADD is like saying - you might want to go to a doctor and check it out. When there's nothing wrong and nothing to check out. Or possibly, you should try Adderall or Concerta and line the pockets of big pharma.
Posted by SLS on January 19, 2014, at 23:05:26
In reply to Re: Questionable Quizzes overdiagnosing ADD, posted by baseball55 on January 19, 2014, at 18:49:49
> > > This test pathologizes human behavior.
> >
> > Isn't that a bit harsh? I don't get where you are coming from. Do you believe that ADD / ADHD exists?
> >
> >
> > - Scott
> >
> > I guess what I mean is that if I - who am not the least bit ADD - score as possibly having ADD, based on my saying I sometimes or rarely get distracted, then the test is pathologizing normal behavior. For a test to say that you "possibly" have ADD is like saying - you might want to go to a doctor and check it out. When there's nothing wrong and nothing to check out. Or possibly, you should try Adderall or Concerta and line the pockets of big pharma."Possibly" does not mean certitude. Like I said, if someone has depression, the inattentive subscale will be higher than normal. It might not be a bad idea to get a full psychiatric screening if your score is high.
Do you have depression? What was your inattentive subscore?
Do you feel that psychometric tests like the MMPI have any value?
- Scott
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on January 25, 2014, at 6:18:49
In reply to Re: Questionable Quizzes overdiagnosing ADD » baseball55, posted by SLS on January 19, 2014, at 23:05:26
One of my nieces teachers thought she had ADHA, and suggested she see a particular specialist. She got a referral, and went into the consult with both her kids.
Within 15 minutes the doc had not only diagnosed ADHD in niece #1, he had also diagnosed it in niece number #2, and also in y sister, and had started them all on amphetamines. This all sounded a bit dodgy to me, he was last seen fleeing the country before he could be arrested for numerous and deliberate breaches of the dangerous drug regulations, he was also struck off the medical register.
This is the end of the thread.
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