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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 31 to 55 of 55. Go back in thread:
Posted by poser938 on March 5, 2013, at 14:43:47
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-duenhod » Lou PIlder, posted by phidippus on March 3, 2013, at 20:37:25
> Research that shows they don't.
>
> EricSharing your way of thinking is only going to lead people to suffering. You need to stop it. Every now and then someone posts on this site that medicine messed them up and you tell them they're mistaken. Instead of telling them that, you need to gain some useful knowledge and then come back to psychobabble and share your knowledge.
Posted by Lou PIlder on March 5, 2013, at 15:20:16
In reply to Eric, posted by poser938 on March 5, 2013, at 14:43:47
> > Research that shows they don't.
> >
> > Eric
>
> Sharing your way of thinking is only going to lead people to suffering. You need to stop it. Every now and then someone posts on this site that medicine messed them up and you tell them they're mistaken. Instead of telling them that, you need to gain some useful knowledge and then come back to psychobabble and share your knowledge.poser,
You wrote,[...medicine messed them up...lead people to suffering...you (Eric) tell them that they are mistaken...useful knowledge...].
Posted by poser938 on March 5, 2013, at 15:27:07
In reply to Re: : Lou's reply-hynune » Lou PIlder, posted by phidippus on March 3, 2013, at 21:57:42
Eric, you have a few sensational studies all talking about how wonderful antidepressants are. Yes they may be wonderful for about 1/3 of the people that take them, but for some they can cause life damaging effects. I don't need to point to a study explaining this because I have personally experienced this.
But here are a few:
http://www.uiowa.edu/ucs/documents/Csoka%20et%20al.%20PSSD%20Case%20reports.pdf
And here is a summarized version of the article
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18173768You need to unbury your head from the sand and face that there are still millions of things that scientists, psychiatrists, neurologists and doctors don't understand about the brain.
So why act like there is definitive proof that psychotropic meds can in no way cause longterm/permanent effect to the brain?
Posted by Lamdage22 on March 5, 2013, at 15:45:41
In reply to Eric, posted by poser938 on March 5, 2013, at 15:27:07
Eric, unfortunately there is no pills to help you leave a cult.
Posted by Lou PIlder on March 5, 2013, at 16:52:17
In reply to Re: correction(2)- Lou's reply-heyheywurdhamunkeez » Lou PIlder, posted by CamW on March 4, 2013, at 9:24:03
> Lou, sir:
>
> More fear mongering. Why not add percentages, as to how often the above adverse effects occur?
>
> Something must have unexpectedly happened to you, personally, for you to have this kind of animosity to psychotropics. But can you be sure that it was the psychotropics that truly resulted in what happened to you?
>
> - CamC_W,
You wrote,[...fear mongering...how often...this kind of animosity...are you sure...?].
Posted by phidippus on March 5, 2013, at 16:57:50
In reply to Eric, posted by poser938 on March 5, 2013, at 14:43:47
Cut the sh*t. Just as much evidence supports the idea psychotropic medication does no long term harm as does evidence to the contrary. Who is right? You?
Eric
Posted by phidippus on March 5, 2013, at 17:01:21
In reply to Eric, posted by poser938 on March 5, 2013, at 15:27:07
>You need to unbury your head from the sand and face that there are still millions of things that scientists, psychiatrists, neurologists and doctors don't understand about the brain.
What don't they understand about the brain? And if they don't know these things about the brain, how can one quantify the so called damage done by these drugs?
Eric
Posted by poser938 on March 6, 2013, at 15:18:01
In reply to Re: Eric » poser938, posted by phidippus on March 5, 2013, at 17:01:21
This s just a small article on what is unknown.
http://www.google.com/m?hl=en&source=android-browser-type&q=what+is+not+known+about+the+brainYa know,the first time I started seeing a psychatrist in 2005 my dad told me I need to be careful with the meds I'm prescribed because they are "very owerful medicine".
I figured my dad was living in the past. I told myself that these meds were thoroughly studied for years and that they were proven safe and effective. Oh man was I wrong. Now, 8 years later I am living with the mistake I made to try antidepressants.
At first I told myself it wasn't the medication that did this. That it was just part of growing up. But it felt so unnatural. After trying more antidepressants it was ckear tht they were causing the problem,Certain muscles in my face move on their own. My emotional response is very weak. My endurance is very low. I can't even hold my arms up without feeling exhasusted afterwards.
Ive had tests done to check my hormones and things like that, but they alk come back normal.
Posted by phidippus on March 6, 2013, at 16:01:40
In reply to Re: Eric, posted by poser938 on March 6, 2013, at 15:18:01
I've been on many antidepressants for the last 5 years and have not experienced a single lingering side effect.
You're convinced antidepressants caused your current state. How are you so sure? Perhaps you are experiencing symptoms of an underlying illness. Perhaps chronic fatigue syndrome.
Eric
Posted by poser938 on March 7, 2013, at 15:41:32
In reply to Re: Eric » poser938, posted by phidippus on March 6, 2013, at 16:01:40
> I've been on many antidepressants for the last 5 years and have not experienced a single lingering side effect.
>
> You're convinced antidepressants caused your current state. How are you so sure? Perhaps you are experiencing symptoms of an underlying illness. Perhaps chronic fatigue syndrome.
>
> Eric
Hmm, I think you may be on to something. Your experience with medication seems to speak for everyone. Everyones brain must exactly like yours! And therefore react to medication just like yours. You may want to write to the national institute of health about this,
Posted by poser938 on March 7, 2013, at 16:23:52
In reply to Re: Eric » poser938, posted by phidippus on March 6, 2013, at 16:01:40
But seriously Eric, you know everyones brain is unique
Posted by phidippus on March 7, 2013, at 23:38:06
In reply to Re: Eric, posted by poser938 on March 7, 2013, at 16:23:52
That's like saying everyone's heart is unique.
Eric
Posted by phidippus on March 7, 2013, at 23:40:16
In reply to Re: Eric, posted by poser938 on March 7, 2013, at 15:41:32
I don't know a single person besides yourself(you must be very unique indeed) who has taken antideppresants and suffered long time effects.
If you keep on blaming the antidepressants, you're never going to figure out what's really going on.
Eric
Posted by SLS on March 8, 2013, at 3:36:33
In reply to Re: Eric » poser938, posted by phidippus on March 7, 2013, at 23:40:16
> I don't know a single person besides yourself(you must be very unique indeed) who has taken antideppresants and suffered long time effects.
>
> If you keep on blaming the antidepressants, you're never going to figure out what's really going on.
>
> Eric
I agree with Poser938.That antidepressants leave behind persistent changes in brain and CNS function is self-evident. Paxil is a good example of this. How else would non-response to a previously effective drug occur? This phenomenon is sometimes referred to as "drug-discontinuation-induced refractoriness". The term was developed at the NIH by Robert Post to describe his observation that some patients who had been stable on lithium for many years became resistant to its therapeutic effect once it was discontinued and restarted.
- Scott
--------------------------------------------Am J Psychiatry. 1992 Dec;149(12):1727-9.
Lithium-discontinuation-induced refractoriness: preliminary observations.
Post RM, Leverich GS, Altshuler L, Mikalauskas K.
SourceBiological Psychiatry Branch, National Institute of Mental Health, Bethesda, MD 20892.
AbstractThe authors used a systematic life-chart methodology to observe four patients with bipolar disorder in whom long periods (6-15 years) of effective lithium prophylaxis were followed by relapses on lithium discontinuation. Once the drug was reinstituted, it was no longer effective. The incidence, predictors, and mechanisms underlying this phenomenon all require further systematic study. The current preliminary observations suggest an additional reason for caution when lithium discontinuation in the well-maintained patient is considered.
---------------------------------------------
J Affect Disord. 2012 Sep;140(1):6-13. doi: 10.1016/j.jad.2011.09.021. Epub 2011 Dec 7.
Acquired lithium resistance revisited: discontinuation-induced refractoriness versus tolerance.
Post RM.
SourceBipolar Collaborative Network, 5415 W. Cedar Lane, Suite 201B, Bethesda, MD 20814, United States. robert.post@speakeasy.net
Abstract
BACKGROUND:While some patients fail to respond to lithium from the outset, others are initially responsive and then develop treatment resistance. These acquired forms of lithium resistance have received relatively little clinical attention.
METHODS:We review the literature on the two different forms of acquired treatment resistance lithium that occur following an initial good response to lithium-discontinuation-induced refractoriness and tolerance- and discuss the possible neurobiological mechanisms involved.
RESULTS:Multiple investigators have reported cases of discontinuation-induced refractoriness, where following a good long-term response, patients discontinue lithium, suffer a major recurrence, and then do not again respond as well or at all to lithium once it is reinstituted at previously effective doses. The development of tolerance has similarly been multiply documented where lithium doses are consistently maintained, but after an extended period of excellent responsiveness, affective episodes of increasing severity, frequency, or duration begin to break through. These two forms of acquired treatment resistance appear to have different underlying neurobiological mechanisms and require differential treatment strategies.
LIMITATIONS:Recognition of acquired forms of lithium resistance depends on careful case descriptions and longitudinal monitoring of patients who are usually treated naturalistically and not in controlled clinical trials.
CONCLUSION:To the extent that these forms of acquired lithium resistance can be better recognized and their development slowed, prevented, or ameliorated, it could yield substantial clinical and public health benefits in avoiding the morbidity and mortality that can accompany lithium non-responsive bipolar disorder.
Copyright © 2011 Elsevier B.V. All rights reserved.
PMID:
22154708
[PubMed - in process]------------------------------------------------
Posted by herpills on March 8, 2013, at 8:19:52
In reply to Re: Eric » poser938, posted by phidippus on March 7, 2013, at 23:40:16
> If you keep on blaming the antidepressants, you're never going to figure out what's really going on.
>Some doctors even blame the illness, when it is the medications that are causing problems. herpills
Posted by SLS on March 8, 2013, at 10:42:46
In reply to Re: Eric » poser938, posted by phidippus on March 7, 2013, at 23:38:06
> That's like saying everyone's heart is unique.
>
> EricAre you saying that they are not unique?
:-/
- Scott
Posted by poser938 on March 8, 2013, at 14:05:08
In reply to Re: Eric » phidippus, posted by SLS on March 8, 2013, at 10:42:46
Everyone reacts to medine differently. Different side effects for different people. Some people are comfortably numbed by them while others are made more emotional. Some people are more inhibited and others less so. Some people develop tardive dyskinesia and others don't, sometimes this tardive dyskinesia goes away after stopping the med and other times it doesnt.
I've read all about how antidepressants are believed to work and how they affect the brain and body. When they have a beneficial effect on someone they can increase neuron growth. Do away with inflamation. Things like that.
But what about when a brain that reacts badly to them is filled with this artificial chemical? And they become severely depressed, maybe suicidal feeling. Would it be wrong to think that inflammation has been increasedbin the brain? That neuron growth has been decreased? And is it completely wrong to think that this could not effect someone longterm?
Posted by poser938 on March 8, 2013, at 14:12:35
In reply to Re: Eric » phidippus, posted by SLS on March 8, 2013, at 10:42:46
Or you could look at it like an allergic reaction.I can eat peanut butter as much as I want. It tastes great with jelly. Before I had ever heard of a peanut allergy I could never conceived someone having a bad reaction to something as simple as a peanut.
I think you are in this mindset when it comes to mood medicine. But we can give a big thanks to drug companies for this. They get theme chemical put together in a lab, and then they have to convince the public that this chemical is medicine. And that it can heal. And that for everyone that takes it the benefits outweigh any risks. Those Cymbalta commercials are great, aren't they?
Posted by poser938 on March 8, 2013, at 14:22:09
In reply to Re: Eric » poser938, posted by phidippus on March 7, 2013, at 23:38:06
> That's like saying everyone's heart is unique.
>
> EricAnd everyones heart is very unique, when someone has a heart transplant the body will not want it. The body says f#ck this I want the heart I was birn with. So, we feed the body immunosuppressants to foce the body into taking it.
And everyones brain chemistry is different. think how much more comlex the brain is compared to the heart. Its incomprehensible.
Why expect the millions who taked these brain chemistry altering medications to react similarly. With the certain side effects for them you see on drugs.com?
Posted by poser938 on March 8, 2013, at 14:36:23
In reply to Re: Eric, posted by poser938 on March 8, 2013, at 14:22:09
Today too many see antidepressants more as vitamins rather than chemicals.
Posted by phidippus on March 8, 2013, at 19:18:18
In reply to Re: Eric, posted by poser938 on March 8, 2013, at 14:12:35
I hate commercials for antidepressants.
Eric
Posted by phidippus on March 8, 2013, at 19:19:51
In reply to Re: Eric » phidippus, posted by SLS on March 8, 2013, at 10:42:46
Unique, but strangely similar.
Eric
Posted by Phillipa on March 8, 2013, at 20:26:46
In reply to Re: Eric » poser938, posted by phidippus on March 8, 2013, at 19:18:18
Eric not only Antidepressants. My favorite are the ones for men and you know the ones. One may go blind or deaf or die!!! Phillipa
Posted by SLS on March 9, 2013, at 6:17:55
In reply to Re: Eric » SLS, posted by phidippus on March 8, 2013, at 19:19:51
> Unique, but strangely similar.
>
>
> Eric
I don't know about being "strangely" similar, but similar enough to pass for being of the same species. I would say that there are greater interindividual differences between brains than there are between hearts.
- Scott
Posted by poser938 on March 9, 2013, at 15:18:28
In reply to Re: Eric » phidippus, posted by SLS on March 9, 2013, at 6:17:55
But, I think about the only longterm effect that most agree on is when the medicine just stops working. And even after discontinuing it for a bit, it still has no effect.
This is the end of the thread.
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