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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Phil on January 21, 2013, at 20:08:57
I'm doing OK right now and I don't want to rock the boat. But I'm not sure that dying 10 years early is worth the cost of antipsychotics. My blood pressure was 141 / 86 the other day. Not good. My health is going south. But I'm afraid to stop this drug.
I don't think that I've ever been so conflicted over whether to stay on a drug or not.
I'm not interested in antipsychotics period unless nothing else works.
Not sure if I'm needing advice or just need to talk about it. Definitely frustrated.
Posted by schleprock on January 21, 2013, at 21:42:04
In reply to Here I go again, Quetiapine, posted by Phil on January 21, 2013, at 20:08:57
> I'm doing OK right now and I don't want to rock the boat. But I'm not sure that dying 10 years early is worth the cost of antipsychotics. My blood pressure was 141 / 86 the other day. Not good. My health is going south. But I'm afraid to stop this drug.
> I don't think that I've ever been so conflicted over whether to stay on a drug or not.
> I'm not interested in antipsychotics period unless nothing else works.
> Not sure if I'm needing advice or just need to talk about it. Definitely frustrated.
>This should help you decide:
http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/quetiapine+fumarate/death
Seems like an easy decision to me.
Posted by Phillipa on January 21, 2013, at 23:17:26
In reply to Here I go again, Quetiapine, posted by Phil on January 21, 2013, at 20:08:57
Phil have you ever stopped it before and if so what happened? Could you cut down on the dose? I don't know what to say it's a tough one. Phillipa
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on January 21, 2013, at 23:18:18
In reply to Re: Here I go again, Quetiapine, posted by schleprock on January 21, 2013, at 21:42:04
Have you considered changing to one of the newer antipsychotics that doesnt cause metabolic syndrome (Geodon, Zeldox fopr example)
BP of 141/86 isntthat high - you could easily add a low dose of an ace inhibitor to drop it down (say enalapril 10mg)
Posted by Phil on January 21, 2013, at 23:48:22
In reply to Re: Here I go again, Quetiapine, posted by schleprock on January 21, 2013, at 21:42:04
I guess I'll have to go with my instincts because that website is hilarious. 512 out of 64000 reported weight gain on Seroquel? I think that place is a mass of computers with a 16 year old part timer at the switch. Oh well.
Comment from someone
Sceptic (2 years ago):
According to this study, 355 baby's, all below the age of 2 years old, developed a depression...
According to this study at least 61 baby's commited suicide.
Could someone please explain to me how a 1 year old child is able to commit suicide? Or how one diagnoses a depression on children below the age of two?
Posted by Phil on January 21, 2013, at 23:49:39
In reply to Re: Here I go again, Quetiapine, posted by jono_in_adelaide on January 21, 2013, at 23:18:18
No insurance.
Posted by Phil on January 21, 2013, at 23:52:10
In reply to Re: Here I go again, Quetiapine, posted by jono_in_adelaide on January 21, 2013, at 23:18:18
I'll talk to my doc about enalapril. Thank you.
Posted by tensor on January 22, 2013, at 8:22:32
In reply to Re: Here I go again, Quetiapine » schleprock, posted by Phil on January 21, 2013, at 23:48:22
> I guess I'll have to go with my instincts because that website is hilarious. 512 out of 64000 reported weight gain on Seroquel? I think that place is a mass of computers with a 16 year old part timer at the switch. Oh well.
>
> Comment from someone
>
> Sceptic (2 years ago):
>
> According to this study, 355 baby's, all below the age of 2 years old, developed a depression...
>
> According to this study at least 61 baby's commited suicide.
>
> Could someone please explain to me how a 1 year old child is able to commit suicide? Or how one diagnoses a depression on children below the age of two?
>I just posted a comment about the statistics on that page. As always with computers, garbage in - garbage out.
Anyway, is it your blood pressure or do you have other health issues, blood samples? Are you on a high dosage? I also take Seroquel and I don't think there's reason to worry as long as you regularly do some blood tests.
"Worry does not empty tomorrow of sorrow; but it empties today of strength." -Corrie Ten Boom
/tensor
Posted by Phil on January 22, 2013, at 12:49:10
In reply to Re: Here I go again, Quetiapine » Phil, posted by tensor on January 22, 2013, at 8:22:32
300mg & 4 other meds. 6' 250#. Almost 60 y.o.
The weight is what bothers me the most but I'm trying to attack that issue.It's hard to weigh 170 most of your life. Go to 185 on Amitriptyline. Go to 195 and stay there on other drugs. Get on AAP's and go to 250. I've never been fat and said I never would be. My joints are going to hell, it's hard to put shoes on. Basic stuff you know?
I'll tolerate it but people with schizophrenia live 15-20% less years than other people because of cardiac issues brought on by AP's. I'd be silly not to weigh these options. OTOH, I really don't give a sh*t how long I live. Never have. Therefore, the juxtaposition.
I'm a walking contradiction, partly truth, partly fiction.
Posted by tensor on January 22, 2013, at 13:08:46
In reply to Re: Here I go again, Quetiapine » tensor, posted by Phil on January 22, 2013, at 12:49:10
> 300mg & 4 other meds. 6' 250#. Almost 60 y.o.
> The weight is what bothers me the most but I'm trying to attack that issue.Yepp, it's doable, done it myself.
If you burn more calories than you eat it's not possible to maintain or gain weight.> I'll tolerate it but people with schizophrenia live 15-20% less years than other people because of cardiac issues brought on by AP's.
The APs are not really to blame per se. They increase appetite which can (will) cause weight gain and then obesity, dyslipidemia, insulin resistance etc. It's the diabetes that causes cardiovascular problems.
Solution: Control your weight/BMI, regular blood tests./tensor
Posted by Phil on January 22, 2013, at 14:10:44
In reply to Re: Here I go again, Quetiapine » Phil, posted by tensor on January 22, 2013, at 13:08:46
I think I'll be able to lose some weight but if it were just calories in calories out then where do these thousands of examples come from? BTW, my doc hears this too.
"Let me put it to you this way. I'm a former professional athlete and I'm a strong believer in meds. I found out who the devil was real quick when I met seroquel. I'm not about to divulge my name or what sport, but it's mainstream. I had to post when I saw your posts. I used to be '6'2'', 205 with about 4-5% bodyfat. My weight depends on my career and I gained 30 pounds over one month. I workout once, sometimes twice a day and my coaches have been scratching their heads because of my slow motor skills and weight gain. I have decided as of today, April 11, 2012 to quit this drug. I'm weening from 800 mg to one 100 mg in the morning and one 100 mg at night. I don't care if you workout 3x p/day and try your hardest at eating well. YOU WILL GAIN WEIGHT AND IT WILL STAY. I had a sit down with my coaches and they now understand my situation. Like I said before I will check in twice p/week with you guys. This is one of the hardest things I've ever gone through so stay strong!!!!"
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on January 22, 2013, at 16:46:07
In reply to Re: Here I go again, Quetiapine » jono_in_adelaide, posted by Phil on January 21, 2013, at 23:49:39
"no insurance"
risperidone is now generic and it has a lwer incidence of weight gain and metabolic syndrome than Seroquel or Zyprexa - it might be worth a try.
It is avaliable via India very cheaply (maybe five dollars a month) and this is quite legal if you have a script from your doctor.
Drop me a babblemail message if you'd like details
Posted by cellular on January 22, 2013, at 19:27:12
In reply to Re: Here I go again, Quetiapine » Phil, posted by tensor on January 22, 2013, at 13:08:46
> > 300mg & 4 other meds. 6' 250#. Almost 60 y.o.
> > The weight is what bothers me the most but I'm trying to attack that issue.
>
> Yepp, it's doable, done it myself.
> If you burn more calories than you eat it's not possible to maintain or gain weight.
>
> > I'll tolerate it but people with schizophrenia live 15-20% less years than other people because of cardiac issues brought on by AP's.
>
> The APs are not really to blame per se. They increase appetite which can (will) cause weight gain and then obesity, dyslipidemia, insulin resistance etc. It's the diabetes that causes cardiovascular problems.
> Solution: Control your weight/BMI, regular blood tests.
>
> /tensorI don't know about the reputation of the blogger "The Last Psychiatrist", but maybe the following post and the comment section is helpful in trying to understand how atypical APs influence carb and fat metabolism and its effect on weight:
http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/10/zyprexa_and_fat.html
I had taken risperidone for some time many years ago but was switched to the old-type APs later on. When news was spreading about the atypicals' risk of causing diabetes, I was grateful for not having contracted it.
Posted by baseball55 on January 22, 2013, at 19:30:38
In reply to Here I go again, Quetiapine, posted by Phil on January 21, 2013, at 20:08:57
I took anti-psychotics for a while and they never affected my blood pressure. Is hypertension a known side-effect of APs? My husband has some HTN and we've learned to shop/cook low sodium food.
Posted by baseball55 on January 22, 2013, at 19:42:07
In reply to Re: Here I go again, Quetiapine, posted by baseball55 on January 22, 2013, at 19:30:38
Oh, I get it. You've gained weight. I gained 55 pounds on atypicals (none on the older drugs, but got akathesia). And, despite what people say, it was not because I ate more or exercised less. I actually ate as I always do and exercised more because I wasn't depressed and lying around all day. These drugs do something to your metabolism. I would gain 2-3 pound per week (!) on risperdal, abilify, seroquel, zyprexa. I'd have to have been eating an extra 1500 calories/day to gain that kind of weight with normal metabolism, and I wasn't eating any more than usual.
And the weight really put pressure on my knees. I could barely walk. And the weight didn't come off when I stopped taking APs. I had to diet for a long time and finally got 47 pounds off. (still working on those last ten).
I don't know what to tell you. If they're working, maybe the weight gain will stabilize, but maybe not. But don't let people guilt-trip you into believing it's your own fault for eating too much.
Posted by Phil on January 22, 2013, at 20:45:42
In reply to Re: Here I go again, Quetiapine, posted by baseball55 on January 22, 2013, at 19:30:38
Yes.
Posted by Phil on January 22, 2013, at 20:54:17
In reply to Re: Here I go again, Quetiapine, posted by baseball55 on January 22, 2013, at 19:42:07
I don't feel any guilt. I wrote in my blog a few days ago to eat right and exercise but realize that may not help. Sometimes you have to drop the medication.
Even my doctor said eat less and exercise and you will lose weight. B*llsh*t. Fact is I'm eating just as badly as I ever have but didn't gain weight.
This stuff slows you way down and it's way more complex than what most people would think is obvious.
I just got some new toner carts in and can print a thousand pages of real world evidence that that flies in the face of what doctors say. They have to know this stuff.
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on January 24, 2013, at 0:10:35
In reply to Re: Here I go again, Quetiapine » baseball55, posted by Phil on January 22, 2013, at 20:54:17
Have a look at risperidone Phil - much less weight gain and metabolic syndrome, and alldaychemist sells it dirt cheap in you dont have insurance.
Posted by hyperfocus on January 24, 2013, at 12:00:43
In reply to Here I go again, Quetiapine, posted by Phil on January 21, 2013, at 20:08:57
What are you using the quetiapine for: a mood stabilizer?
I had Risperdal in my cocktail but I stopped it mainly because I have a high risk of developing diabetes type 2 and I decided it wasn't worth the benefits. It's true I was very sedentary but the changes in body metabolism and blood sugar levels caused by APs have nothing to do with eating more or sleeping more or being less active -- I'm pretty sure of that. The atypical AP sulpiride doesn't seem to have much metabolic side-effects but it hugely elevates prolactin levels which could be a problem for men.
Whoever comes up with an AD or AP with weight loss as a SE will probably be the fastest billionaire in history.
At my heaviest I was 60-70 pounds over my desired weight. I absolutely hate being fat; hate how I feel, hate how I look in clothes, hate how winded I would get after walking. It seemed like I thought about it all day. I took APs for social phobia and paranoia and anxiety but the body dysphoria and social avoidance and low self-esteem because of the weight seemed to nullify all the anti-anxiety and anti-paranoia effects. I was much more of a recluse and depressed being overweight than before I started taking heavy psych meds. I guess it comes down to how much being in-shape is worth to you vs. the negative impact on on your cognition and emotions and executive functions. I think though the latter things can be built up without meds even as you'd have to deal with and work to remove the weight gain from meds .
Posted by Phil on January 24, 2013, at 19:06:48
In reply to Re: Here I go again, Quetiapine » Phil, posted by hyperfocus on January 24, 2013, at 12:00:43
I get Medicare beginning in July. Until then, I'm afraid to make any changes. Seroquel is to treat Bipolar I mania.
If, if something went wrong that required hospital treatment, I'm screwed.
I used to be nonchalant about bouncing from med to med but I've had some serious consequences. I can't afford that right now.
This is the end of the thread.
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