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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Shes_Initforthemoney on March 27, 2012, at 15:41:43
I have pulled some of the research on using a stimulant, in my case Dexedrine Spansules, with antipsychotics. There is a fairly negative or at least neutral opinion on using the two. (My AP is Risperdal.) But, a few articles have mentioned that combining the two may prevent stim tolerance.
I find the combination of my two (1mg of Risperdal and 10mg of Dexedrine) to be the absolute best thing I take first in the morning to alleviate my absolute HATRED of mornings..lol. I have used the two over many years, and it both "chills" me out, and have energy to get through my day.
I know there are caveats and warnings...and I may be lucky because I don't have a tendency towards addiction or substance abuse. I wonder if anyone else here has tried this? What where your results? BTW, I am taking the same dose of Dexedrine I was four years ago when I started with a stimulant added to my medications.
Thanks,
Jay
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on March 28, 2012, at 0:06:48
In reply to SLS et al...combining stim with antipsychotic, posted by Shes_Initforthemoney on March 27, 2012, at 15:41:43
Im not SLS but I have taken Dexedrine Spansules 2 years ago with 10 Zyprexa and Xanax 2mg. It was a vary relaxed stimulation, the motivation to get up and clean wasnt as pronounced as Dexedrine taken by itself.
It has a synergy effect. Vary similar to barbituate/amphetamne combos
Posted by SLS on March 28, 2012, at 7:36:23
In reply to Re: SLS et al...combining stim with antipsychotic, posted by rjlockhart04-08 on March 28, 2012, at 0:06:48
> ...I have taken Dexedrine Spansules 2 years ago with 10 Zyprexa and Xanax 2mg.
That is a very cool combination!
- Scott
Posted by Shes_Initforthemoney on March 28, 2012, at 14:11:04
In reply to Re: SLS et al...combining stim with antipsychotic, posted by rjlockhart04-08 on March 28, 2012, at 0:06:48
> Im not SLS but I have taken Dexedrine Spansules 2 years ago with 10 Zyprexa and Xanax 2mg. It was a vary relaxed stimulation, the motivation to get up and clean wasnt as pronounced as Dexedrine taken by itself.
>
> It has a synergy effect. Vary similar to barbituate/amphetamne combosHey RJ...that is okay, I want anybody/everybody possible to respond if they can. (Don't we all?..lol)
My main problem is with the apathetic symptoms that comes with most antidepressant use. I just recently bumped my Effexor dose to 150mg, thinking it would tinkle the norepinephrine pathways, but it caused way too much cognitive blunting and overall apathy. (I have been on Effexor up to 475mg's before...this trial I am talking about was to see if the apathy could be avoided with the con-current use of other meds.)
I have talked with my doctor about me possibly having some schizo-effective (mostly) negative symptoms. I respond to antipsychotics quite well, with the exception of Zyprexa because it blasts my blood sugar way wayyy too high..and I feel sick and ill when that happens.
But, my main med is Prozac, even if it invokes some anxiety and apathy. I can't tolerate any other SSRI's or antidepressants. (Ohh..with the exception of Celexa..but that med is still not powerful enough to help my depression.)
So, I continue my experimentation, because I refuse to let this illness take any more life away from me. I also had a cool reaction to a small dose of Oxycontin and Celexa before, too. But, I have never "craved" to have that combination again, though.
So, my experiment (a work (jerk?..hahahh) in progress..lol) continues. Hope you are doing well RJ.
Best,
Jay
Posted by leslieg on April 2, 2012, at 23:44:05
In reply to Re: SLS et al...combining stim with antipsychotic » rjlockhart04-08, posted by Shes_Initforthemoney on March 28, 2012, at 14:11:04
> > Im not SLS but I have taken Dexedrine Spansules 2 years ago with 10 Zyprexa and Xanax 2mg. It was a vary relaxed stimulation, the motivation to get up and clean wasnt as pronounced as Dexedrine taken by itself.
> >
> > It has a synergy effect. Vary similar to barbituate/amphetamne combos
>
> Hey RJ...that is okay, I want anybody/everybody possible to respond if they can. (Don't we all?..lol)
>
> My main problem is with the apathetic symptoms that comes with most antidepressant use. I just recently bumped my Effexor dose to 150mg, thinking it would tinkle the norepinephrine pathways, but it caused way too much cognitive blunting and overall apathy. (I have been on Effexor up to 475mg's before...this trial I am talking about was to see if the apathy could be avoided with the con-current use of other meds.)
>
> I have talked with my doctor about me possibly having some schizo-effective (mostly) negative symptoms. I respond to antipsychotics quite well, with the exception of Zyprexa because it blasts my blood sugar way wayyy too high..and I feel sick and ill when that happens.
>
> But, my main med is Prozac, even if it invokes some anxiety and apathy. I can't tolerate any other SSRI's or antidepressants. (Ohh..with the exception of Celexa..but that med is still not powerful enough to help my depression.)
>
> So, I continue my experimentation, because I refuse to let this illness take any more life away from me. I also had a cool reaction to a small dose of Oxycontin and Celexa before, too. But, I have never "craved" to have that combination again, though.
>
> So, my experiment (a work (jerk?..hahahh) in progress..lol) continues. Hope you are doing well RJ.
>
> Best,
> Jay
>
>
I may be way off-base here because I don't know what SLS is, but this post really caught my eye because I've been having post-stim (Vyvanse/Dexi) side-effects that I thought I might be able to blunt w/ an antipsychotic (Abilify) but when I Googled I found that antipsychotics (typical and not?) reduce dopamine levels so I worry that even though I feel like an antipsychotic is exactly what I need, it may be exactly what I *don't* need. So I'm curious about further input to your question!
I do wonder if you still have a lot of depression after trying all SSRIs if perhaps you have soft bipolar? I had a suicide attempt while on the "best" SSRI we'd found and I decided to never do SSRIs again. I tried Lamictal but was too afraid of it, then Tegretol which was OK but I wasn't too happy with, then back to Lamictal which gave me the least-depressed winter I've had in a long, long time. But then the depression hit *hard* a month or so ago and in desperation I've added a bit of Tegretol -- and it seems to be making a good difference. (The 2 together change dosaging AND I switched to genenric so it has taken a bit to figure out how things will settle down!) ... My days are generally good, the Lamictal had caused too much apathy, the Tegretol seems to be reducing that. Nights are when the anxiety sets in but I think that is from lack of dopamine (I've been on stims a long time -- narcolepsy.) Even that has been improving a bit.
... But a huge difference between you and me is that I can't tolerate meds that mess with my norepi system. Effexor being just one of them.
... Such a huge but important puzzle to try to solve ...
Good luck,
Leslie : )
Posted by Novelagent on April 5, 2012, at 6:57:36
In reply to SLS et al...combining stim with antipsychotic, posted by Shes_Initforthemoney on March 27, 2012, at 14:41:43
I think you've been reading studies (or reading other people's findings of studies) a tad incorrectly. First of all, there's only a few billion people out there who take a stim and never get tolerance. But you don't hear from them, because they're not going online posting to forums saying how everythig's peachy, as the meds work and let them have meaningful activities instead.
Tolerance from adderall happens at around 40mg, which is the highest dosing one can get without a doc risking a DEA audit.
Aside from that, usually it's depression that causes the perception of "tolerance"-- I know for sure that when adderall stopped "working" for me, my mood got shot, so it wasn't the Adderall. When my mood came back, the Adderall "worked" again. But amphetamines are not to be used as crutches to lean on in life.
"tolerance" perception is also usually caused by unrealistic expectations for the drug. Tell me, are you finding the word "work" to mean make boring tasks interesting and otherwise feel like the medicine is doing everything for you and you're just a co/pilot?
Yeah, it's nice if you got that feeling forever, but it's not healthy and it's a sign of toxicity. It isn't suppose to make life always fun, because life isn't fun and it sucks and it's not even Dexedrine's fault.
At any rate, tolerance does occur with its appetite suppressing effect, but billions of people take the same dose their entire life and accept they're going to get a bad grade or have a tough timd at work now and then. They don't obsess about "adderall tolerance" on boards like crazy meds.com or something.
Oh, and "reverse tolerance" is a separate phenomenon completely different from amphetamine tolerance.. Idiots who can't read basic science read this and write it helps reverse tolerance, and someone on a board is telling you stuff they don't know about.
> I have pulled some of the research on using a stimulant, in
case Dexedrine Spansules, with antipsychotics. There is a fairly negative or at least neutral opinion on using the two. (My AP is Risperdal.) But, a few articles have mentioned that combining the two may prevent stim tolerance.
>
> I find the combination of my two (1mg of Risperdal and 10mg of Dexedrine) to be the absolute best thing I take first in the morning to alleviate my absolute HATRED of mornings..lol. I have used the two over many years, and it both "chills" me out, and have energy to get through my day.
>
> I know there are caveats and warnings...and I may be lucky because I don't have a tendency towards addiction or substance abuse. I wonder if anyone else here has tried this? What where your results? BTW, I am taking the same dose of Dexedrine I was four years ago when I started with a stimulant added to my medications.
>
> Thanks,
> Jay
Posted by Shes_Initforthemoney on April 9, 2012, at 0:34:11
In reply to Re: SLS et al...combining stim with antipsychotic, posted by leslieg on April 2, 2012, at 23:44:05
> > > Im not SLS but I have taken Dexedrine Spansules 2 years ago with 10 Zyprexa and Xanax 2mg. It was a vary relaxed stimulation, the motivation to get up and clean wasnt as pronounced as Dexedrine taken by itself.
> > >
> > > It has a synergy effect. Vary similar to barbituate/amphetamne combos
> >
> > Hey RJ...that is okay, I want anybody/everybody possible to respond if they can. (Don't we all?..lol)
> >
> > My main problem is with the apathetic symptoms that comes with most antidepressant use. I just recently bumped my Effexor dose to 150mg, thinking it would tinkle the norepinephrine pathways, but it caused way too much cognitive blunting and overall apathy. (I have been on Effexor up to 475mg's before...this trial I am talking about was to see if the apathy could be avoided with the con-current use of other meds.)
> >
> > I have talked with my doctor about me possibly having some schizo-effective (mostly) negative symptoms. I respond to antipsychotics quite well, with the exception of Zyprexa because it blasts my blood sugar way wayyy too high..and I feel sick and ill when that happens.
> >
> > But, my main med is Prozac, even if it invokes some anxiety and apathy. I can't tolerate any other SSRI's or antidepressants. (Ohh..with the exception of Celexa..but that med is still not powerful enough to help my depression.)
> >
> > So, I continue my experimentation, because I refuse to let this illness take any more life away from me. I also had a cool reaction to a small dose of Oxycontin and Celexa before, too. But, I have never "craved" to have that combination again, though.
> >
> > So, my experiment (a work (jerk?..hahahh) in progress..lol) continues. Hope you are doing well RJ.
> >
> > Best,
> > Jay
> >
> >
> I may be way off-base here because I don't know what SLS is, but this post really caught my eye because I've been having post-stim (Vyvanse/Dexi) side-effects that I thought I might be able to blunt w/ an antipsychotic (Abilify) but when I Googled I found that antipsychotics (typical and not?) reduce dopamine levels so I worry that even though I feel like an antipsychotic is exactly what I need, it may be exactly what I *don't* need. So I'm curious about further input to your question!
> I do wonder if you still have a lot of depression after trying all SSRIs if perhaps you have soft bipolar? I had a suicide attempt while on the "best" SSRI we'd found and I decided to never do SSRIs again. I tried Lamictal but was too afraid of it, then Tegretol which was OK but I wasn't too happy with, then back to Lamictal which gave me the least-depressed winter I've had in a long, long time. But then the depression hit *hard* a month or so ago and in desperation I've added a bit of Tegretol -- and it seems to be making a good difference. (The 2 together change dosaging AND I switched to genenric so it has taken a bit to figure out how things will settle down!) ... My days are generally good, the Lamictal had caused too much apathy, the Tegretol seems to be reducing that. Nights are when the anxiety sets in but I think that is from lack of dopamine (I've been on stims a long time -- narcolepsy.) Even that has been improving a bit.
> ... But a huge difference between you and me is that I can't tolerate meds that mess with my norepi system. Effexor being just one of them.
> ... Such a huge but important puzzle to try to solve ...
> Good luck,
> Leslie : )Hi Leslie:
Interesting thing..that I am the same regarding norepinephrine affecting meds like Effexor.
Abilify is a bit of a different kind of antipsychotic all together. It "balances" dopamine rather than just help create more or less. It helps your system create it when you need it but also blocks its creation also when you don't need.
One of my main meds is now clonidine. It actually has been shown to be a bit of a mood stabalizer in bi-polar. Prozac is my main SSRI...clonazepam and Dexedrine are good for prn/when is needed.
Glad you are doing good on the two mood stabilizers. I was reading recently that two mood stabaizers often work well when say there are residual side effects like anxiety and depression.
Best of luck..and keep us updated on your progress. Sounds like your combination could help many people.
Jay
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