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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by markwell on January 15, 2012, at 13:04:33
I have had such horrible side effects and no success with any med I have tried so far. I am currently on 600mgs of tegretol for bipolar mania and nothing else. My pdoc wants me to get a consultation for ect. I am currently feeling suicidal and I don't know if this is the best route for me. I get a second opinion from a pdoc on jan 31 for med choices. I don't know if I can wait that long. With ect I need a med to take when treatments are complete for relapse prevention. My diagnosis is bp1 and generalized anxiety disorder. Does ect work for bipolar?
Mark
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on January 15, 2012, at 15:59:12
In reply to ect, posted by markwell on January 15, 2012, at 13:04:33
it does have some good effects on it but It itself is not a cure for mania. You would still have to take medication for it even after ECT. You should consider Nuerontin, and Lamictal, or ofcourse you could stay on tegretol.
ECT helps with depression and gets you out of the pits by sending electric impulses to stimulate some areas of the brain that are not active.
Posted by markwell on January 15, 2012, at 16:20:05
In reply to Re: ect, posted by rjlockhart04-08 on January 15, 2012, at 15:59:12
The tegretol takes care of the mania, it's the depression that's killing me. I tried neuronton and it made me more depressed. I have terrible anxiety with the depression. I don't know if ect helps with this or not.
Mark
Posted by emmanuel98 on January 15, 2012, at 18:05:13
In reply to Re: ect, posted by markwell on January 15, 2012, at 16:20:05
I've done both unilateral and bilateral ECT and neither helped me at all. I was just depressed. I don't know about anxiety. Bilateral shot my memory for a while. I couldn't remember people who I knew fairly well, couldn't recall street names. I had to do the whole 3-1/2 weeks of treatment in the hospital because I was like a zombie afterwards -- would sleep for hours then wake up not knowing where I was or who any of the doctors or nurses were.
Anyway, it didn't work for me. But I know other people who swear by it including Kitty Dukakis, a neighbor, who co-wrote a book praising it (called Shocked)
Posted by Phillipa on January 15, 2012, at 18:32:58
In reply to Re: ect, posted by markwell on January 15, 2012, at 16:20:05
I once asked a pdoc why this young girl had been given ECT as she was college bound and afterwards she remembered nothing. I asked how long til she could return to school the doc said maybe in Spring. I asked why she received he said as nothing else would stop her suicidal plans. But I also asked if helped with anxiety he said no. That is just one doc though. Phillipa
Posted by phidippus on January 15, 2012, at 18:36:48
In reply to ect, posted by markwell on January 15, 2012, at 13:04:33
ECT might be a good option for you, but I'm worried you don't have a med to keep you stable after. Tell me which of the following mood stabilizers you've tried:
Depakote
Tegretol
Trileptal
Lithium
Lamictal
Zonegran
KeppraWhat happens when you take them?
Is it your depressed symptoms worse than your manic symptoms?
Eric
Posted by creepy on January 15, 2012, at 18:52:38
In reply to ect, posted by markwell on January 15, 2012, at 13:04:33
ECT can work, but it should probably be a last choice due to the possible side effects.
Have you tried any other AEDs or AAP's? Bipolar mania appears to be lot easier to take care of than bipolar depression.
The benefit of the AAPs is the serotonin receptor antagonism that occurs without blocking re-uptake. SSRIs might launch you into hypomania again.
Posted by markwell on January 15, 2012, at 19:56:00
In reply to Re: ect » markwell, posted by phidippus on January 15, 2012, at 18:36:48
I've tried tegretol and lamictal. Depression is the dominant. Im afraid that the anxiety i have will get lots worse which is really the issue i have the most trouble with.
Mark
Posted by Beckett on January 15, 2012, at 22:36:15
In reply to ect, posted by markwell on January 15, 2012, at 13:04:33
Mark, maybe you've answered this on other threads. What is your success with benzodiazepines for anxiety? At least short term?
I'm not sure ect is to be rushed into. I don't know, so I am concerned. Klonopin is an anticonvulsant that would work in the direction of mood stability in theory.
Posted by bleauberry on January 16, 2012, at 5:11:28
In reply to ect, posted by markwell on January 15, 2012, at 13:04:33
I had ECT and it did not work. Well, actually it did, but only for about a day after the final shock, and then I was in an ambulance after that threatening suicide.
I've actually never heard of anyone getting good results with ECT. My feeling is it is an overhyped tactic. Dangerous too.....no one knows what frying the brain like that is going to do, putting the person's entire body into a massive seizure by electrical shock, so bad that the person is flooded with barbituates to keep perfectly still during a seizure? I dunno.
I have seen many reports however of what I call "turning the page". That is, ECT for me and other people has seemed like a way to close an old chapter and open a new one. The new one might not be any better than the old one, or it might, but at least it isn't the same endless nightmare....it's a new start. If nothing else, ECT will wipe out enough memory that it is almost sort of like starting over.
I couldn't even drive around my small town without a map after ECT. To this day I still have huge chunks of my life gone....no memory whatsoever of them. Names, people, events.....gone.
But of course, along with that were a bunch of bad memories of the depression too, gone. My cognitive function is less than it was, and name recall is real bad.Since then I have discovered that a couple herbal plant medicines directed at several things....anti-inflammation, anti stealth hidden infection, anti-toxin, anti-depression, anti-anxiety, anti-mania.....have helped me more than a backpack full of meds, ECT, another backpack full of herbs. No one told me I had other options and that plant medicines of the earth actually can have more benefit than anything man makes. Glad I found out finally though.
Keep in mind, psychiatry is not a science, there is very little known about the brain or the drugs, and the whole thing is very young (just a few decades old). II'm just sayin, I think we put a large amount of undeserved unjustified faith in the drugs that are available for prescription. It's almost as if people really actually think that's all there is, that's all the choice there is, as if only a substance invented in a lab can heal a person's symptoms. It just aint so.
Posted by SLS on January 16, 2012, at 6:48:59
In reply to Re: ect » markwell, posted by Beckett on January 15, 2012, at 22:36:15
> Mark, maybe you've answered this on other threads. What is your success with benzodiazepines for anxiety? At least short term?
>
> I'm not sure ect is to be rushed into. I don't know, so I am concerned. Klonopin is an anticonvulsant that would work in the direction of mood stability in theory.
Lithium + Klonopin combination treatment was chosen quite often for bipolar mania before the days of Depakote and AAPs.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on January 16, 2012, at 7:04:00
In reply to ect, posted by markwell on January 15, 2012, at 13:04:33
> Does ect work for bipolar?
ECT can help with stubborn mania as well as depression.
If you decide to go with ECT, ask about bifrontal placement. It is supposed to produced less congnitive impairment than bilateral or bitemporal.
It might be premature to commit to ECT at this juncture. You can certainly go for a consultation and learn as much as you can about it.
Does your mood follow a regular ultra-rapid cycle? If so, it can take months of mood-stabilizer therapy to penetrate the illness. Lamictal is recommended by the NIH for ultra-rapid cycling, often used in conjunction with other medications, especially lithium.
Check out this article:
http://www.medscape.org/viewarticle/512156_4
- Scott
Posted by markwell on January 16, 2012, at 9:54:49
In reply to Re: ect » markwell, posted by SLS on January 16, 2012, at 7:04:00
Thanks for everyone's input. I may go for a consultation for now.
Mark
Posted by Zyprexa on January 16, 2012, at 13:35:37
In reply to Re: ect, posted by markwell on January 16, 2012, at 9:54:49
Have you tried zyprexa? If not I would try that before ECT. I had about 30 ECTs in 97, and that wiped out my memory so bad that I woke after on and thought I had just been born. Because I was looking at a radio or some thing and didn't know what it was or anything for that matter. Then I looked at my legs and realized how long they were and I knew I couldn't be a baby. I have not had ECTs since and I'm still getting pices of memory back. I started zyprexa about a year later and I have been fine ever since. I theorise that if I took zyprexa before going to hospital that I would not have needed the ECT. ECT was realy like starting over but the memory loss was so bad it was not worth it. I don't belive it made me less suicidal because right after the ECTs I was so sad and depressed that I had an enormouse pain in my stomack that was unbarable.
Posted by creepy on January 16, 2012, at 21:38:14
In reply to Re: ect, posted by markwell on January 15, 2012, at 19:56:00
Thats a difficult combo. You could treat the anxiety and the hypomania with something like depakote, but the depression would be an issue.
You could see if your doc is one that belives in trying small doses of SSRIs for BP depression. Some do, some dont.
I can see why youre considering ECT though. Id personally try the AAPs first.
Or you could ask about nefazodone if youre afraid of the dopamine antagonism..
Posted by JohnLA on January 24, 2012, at 20:34:03
In reply to ect, posted by markwell on January 15, 2012, at 13:04:33
mark-
hang tough if you can. i had ect (unilateral) and it did not work. not trying to discourage you.
i am 22 months in to my first ever depressive episode. i got talked in to ect about 2 months in to my episode...i was extremely agitated and suicide was on my mind.
i can say i am a bit better now. still have a long way to go, but i look back and regret that i tried ect to be honest. at the same time, i also look at it as another failed med experience.
as usual w/all psych approaches it's a mixed-bag, darn it!, some people's lives have been saved by ect. wish i was one of them.
do your best to keep yourself self right now. whatever that takes. if you have the ability, i would get a few pdoc's opinions on ect before you take the plunge.
finally, the good news for me at least is i had no real physical pain or lasting memory issues.
please feel free to ask me any questions about my experience if you like.
again, hang-in there buddy.
john
This is the end of the thread.
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