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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by tepi on August 6, 2011, at 19:56:27
I have the worst social phobia you can imagine. Also depression and other things
I tried Neurontin and for some days I can say I feelt more alive , this drugs made me so prosocial , more than any other drugs ,evenmore than Nardil or than Xanax or Klonopin
Unfortunately this effect was not permanent , it fade away and I was increasing more and more the dose to feel something. At the end I stopped it.Then again I started using Lyrica yesterday and Its amazing how fast it made a good effect on me
75mg was enough. It was a good response. I was able to talk with a person , wow . I can say I enjoy a little the talk , WOW .But this effect does not last much time. why ????
I like these drugs in some way they dont make feel the same like SSRIS , AP etc. They make me feel that Im alive. Its so rare and so sad they cant give me the same effect all the time and for many days .
Any suggestions friends ??Tepi
Valdoxa 25mg
Inveda 1.5mg
Lyrica 75 mg
Posted by sigismund on August 6, 2011, at 21:57:09
In reply to These anticonvulsants have something good, posted by tepi on August 6, 2011, at 19:56:27
Tep, if you use Lyrica when you really need it you should be able to maintain its efficacy.
I use 300mg gabapentin at nights. If there is something I have to do I might use more, but not often. It helps me lie(sp?) still in bed.
If you expect less out of these drugs you might get more out of them.
You obviously need something to relax you and get rid of some of the fear.
Posted by sigismund on August 6, 2011, at 22:01:49
In reply to These anticonvulsants have something good, posted by tepi on August 6, 2011, at 19:56:27
Hey Tep, how does Lyrica compare to gabapentin?
Are the side effects more severe?
Posted by Phillipa on August 6, 2011, at 23:44:41
In reply to Re: These anticonvulsants have something good, posted by sigismund on August 6, 2011, at 22:01:49
Sigi seriously neurotin relaxes you better than a benzo? PJ
Posted by sigismund on August 7, 2011, at 1:35:14
In reply to Re: These anticonvulsants have something good » sigismund, posted by Phillipa on August 6, 2011, at 23:44:41
I don't know about better, but it is somewhat similar.....a little weird or something but having said that, maybe nicer.
Posted by SLS on August 7, 2011, at 7:42:25
In reply to These anticonvulsants have something good, posted by tepi on August 6, 2011, at 19:56:27
> But this effect does not last much time. why ????
The phenomenon of such an immediate loss of therapeutic effect is called tachyphylaxis. It occurs with many psychotropic drugs, and can be quite variable, depending on the individual.
Although scientists have a name for this kind of drug failure, there is very little understanding of the physiology involved. Likewise, many, many people respond well to antidepressants with scientists being unable to answer why. There is an unmet need for more data and the synthesis of understanding as to how these drugs work.
In the absence of theory, one must approach psychiatric medicine with a perspective of using empirical data. In your case, I believe that your anxiety and depression are driven by anomalous brain function. I am all but sure that the improvement you experienced with both Lyrica and Neurontin was not a placebo effect. That being said, I would suggest attacking your condition with both psychopharmacological and psychotherapeutic strategies at the same time. Since there really isn't any definitive formulation of an anxiolytic treatment including these drugs for severe cases, you must be willing to experiment with both psychotropic medications and the periods of time you allow them to work.
- Scott
Posted by floatingbridge on August 7, 2011, at 12:23:51
In reply to These anticonvulsants have something good, posted by tepi on August 6, 2011, at 19:56:27
Yay Tepi! This is super news. I'm pleased :-)
Lyrica was a strange one for me. I needed less Xanax and therefor cut way back. However, people told me afterwards that I slurred my speech. I remember having to take extra effort to speak. That said, other than speech and some cognitive dulling, it felt so, I don't know. Like such a relief.
I also credit it with getting off snri medication without a withdrawal effect (unheard of for me).
You were able to tolerate high doses of gabpentinin. And you already respond to 75mg of Lyrica.
I couldn't be more pleased for you. I would try to keep your dose lower as one poster (sigi?) suggested to retain efficacy. In my state in the US, it is considered a slightly controlled substance. Sorry I forget what schedule that is. Less controlled than Dexedrine, opiates, benzodiazepine. More controlled than ssri's.
:-)
I felt it's effects right away, too.
fb
Posted by tepi on August 7, 2011, at 12:50:09
In reply to Re: These anticonvulsants have something good » tepi, posted by SLS on August 7, 2011, at 7:42:25
> > But this effect does not last much time. why ????
>
> The phenomenon of such an immediate loss of therapeutic effect is called tachyphylaxis. It occurs with many psychotropic drugs, and can be quite variable, depending on the individual.
>Thanks Scot! Its always good to have news from you
>
> I believe that your anxiety and depression are driven by anomalous brain function. I am all but sure that the improvement you experienced with both Lyrica and Neurontin was not a placebo effect
>
>
I agree 100% with you thanks. I asked once a Doctor about this kind of effect on some drugs and his answer was that these are just placebo effects , but Im sure they are not! Because this does not happen with all drugs only with certain kind.
I respond him that then I wanted to treat me with a placebo if that was gonna make me feel good>
>
That being said, I would suggest attacking your condition with both psychopharmacological and psychotherapeutic strategies at the same time. Since there really isn't any definitive formulation of an anxiolytic treatment including these drugs for severe cases, you must be willing to experiment with both psychotropic medications and the periods of time you allow them to work.
>
>
> - ScottYes ,Im trying to find some CBT here in Mexico but it seems this technique is not wide used here
thank you again ScottTepi
Posted by tepi on August 7, 2011, at 12:58:05
In reply to Re: These anticonvulsants have something good » tepi, posted by floatingbridge on August 7, 2011, at 12:23:51
>
> You were able to tolerate high doses of gabpentinin. And you already respond to 75mg of Lyrica.
>
Hi and thanks Float , yes I tolerate high doses of neurontin with no problem and I also could stopped it with no problem
I remember having a good effect on neurotin also in the first shot , first day
I dont want to be pesimistic but Im not sure if Im gonna have the same effect all the time, Im afraid its goona happen the same that happened with neurontin , that I needed more and more to have the same effect
> I couldn't be more pleased for you. I would try to keep your dose lower as one poster (sigi?) suggested to retain efficacy. In my state in the US, it is considered a slightly controlled substance. Sorry I forget what schedule that is. Less controlled than Dexedrine, opiates, benzodiazepine. More controlled than ssri's.
>
> :-)
>
> I felt it's effects right away, too.
>
> fbI will try to keep on my lower dose. I wish God give me the rigth med for me, I dont care if it helps me only 50% . I just need a little help from the meds and then Im sure Im gonna be able to figth in this life
Posted by tepi on August 7, 2011, at 13:04:43
In reply to Re: These anticonvulsants have something good, posted by sigismund on August 6, 2011, at 21:57:09
> Tep, if you use Lyrica when you really need it you should be able to maintain its efficacy.
>Ey Sigsi ! You mean to use it only as need it basis. You mean not to take the meds all days at the same hour?
I not only feel more calm around people but also when Im at my home all these bad thougths of me are almost gone. The prosocial effect Its so good , I love it. I had forgotten what it feeled like , it makes me feel a real human being
I wish this could lastWell my sideffects on Neurontin were weightgain and I also have some stomach problems, I dont know how to say it in english. That was all.
With lyrica I think its too early to say something about seffects. this is my third day on it. I think in general these drugs give me no problems with side effects
Tepi
Posted by floatingbridge on August 7, 2011, at 13:35:28
In reply to Re: These anticonvulsants have something good » sigismund, posted by tepi on August 7, 2011, at 13:04:43
Tepi, my instructions for Lyrica from my doctor were to take it regularly, but I was taking it for pain. I was supposed to take it about the same time per day without varying the dose.
It did not work for pain :-/ but did for anxiety.
sigi has something worked out with his neurontin use that he'll have to explain himeself. I think I understand part of his meaning, correct me here Sigi, is that if you do not overshoot your usage regularly, it will work when you need it, like if you need to go out somewhere that is more stressful than usual.
What are your doctor's instructions?
I really like your idea of a 50% percent med. It could even be a higher percentage. Myself, I gave up my expectations of a 100% medicine.
> > Tep, if you use Lyrica when you really need it you should be able to maintain its efficacy.
> >
>
> Ey Sigsi ! You mean to use it only as need it basis. You mean not to take the meds all days at the same hour?
> I not only feel more calm around people but also when Im at my home all these bad thougths of me are almost gone. The prosocial effect Its so good , I love it. I had forgotten what it feeled like , it makes me feel a real human being
> I wish this could last
>
>
>
> Well my sideffects on Neurontin were weightgain and I also have some stomach problems, I dont know how to say it in english. That was all.
> With lyrica I think its too early to say something about seffects. this is my third day on it. I think in general these drugs give me no problems with side effects
>
>
> Tepi
Posted by sigismund on August 7, 2011, at 13:56:28
In reply to Re: These anticonvulsants have something good » sigismund, posted by tepi on August 7, 2011, at 13:04:43
>Ey Sigsi ! You mean to use it only as need it basis. You mean not to take the meds all days at the same hour?
You probably need it most of the time, Tep, (when you are awake around people) but it won't work if you take it too much. yeah, that is what I meant. It will only be so much use....but I find gabapentin useful for helping me sleep.
The other thing is...people are scary. They say they aren't, but I don't believe them.
Posted by policebox on August 7, 2011, at 13:56:30
In reply to These anticonvulsants have something good, posted by tepi on August 6, 2011, at 19:56:27
How responsive/hesitant have you found your doctors to be to prescribing this off-label for social anxiety/avoidant personality?
I'd very much love to try this, especially since school is starting in a few weeks, and I have a really difficult time being around so many unfamiliar people. I did well on a very short course of Valium last year, taken on an as-needed basis, but my pdoc was unwilling to let me keep taking a benzo past about two weeks, despite it being very helpful, and despite me stretching the two week supply to over a month.
So, I was wondering if most of you suggested this drug to your pdoc or if they suggested it to you and then what was their overall reaction?
Posted by sigismund on August 7, 2011, at 14:09:00
In reply to Re: These anticonvulsants have something good » tepi, posted by floatingbridge on August 7, 2011, at 13:35:28
> is that if you do not overshoot your usage regularly, it will work when you need it, like if you need to go out somewhere that is more stressful than usual.
Yeah, that's it. I spend a lot of time not going out, and I wouldn't need it or use it except for sleep or for events involving other people (outside this house).
I quite like being solitary. It can get lonely but it is good for my thinking. Some people are like this.
Leonard Cohen has the lines
'I was trapped in this kitchen, I took to religion, and I wondered how long she would stay.
I needed so much to have nothing to touch, I've always been greedy that way.'
Posted by tepi on August 7, 2011, at 16:01:40
In reply to Re: These anticonvulsants have something good, posted by sigismund on August 7, 2011, at 14:09:00
Ups , bad news , third day on it ,and I didnt feel the same than the first 2 days, if Iike If I had taken nothing , any pill
Jesus , here I go again
Posted by floatingbridge on August 7, 2011, at 21:45:52
In reply to Re: These anticonvulsants have something good, posted by tepi on August 7, 2011, at 16:01:40
>
> Ups , bad news , third day on it ,and I didnt feel the same than the first 2 days, if Iike If I had taken nothing , any pill
> Jesus , here I go againTepi, I wish there was something to extinguish fear. I haven't found it yet. But there are good days and not so good days, and sometimes medication helps me, though it doesn't always seem to work.
Part of having any fear or anxiety is also having a fear of the fear coming back. Maybe there will be times when a medication, in this case, Lyrica, doesn't work well enough, or the fear comes through anyways. But that doesn't mean it won't be or isn't a helper medication for you.
I am not trying to convince you to take Lyrica in particular. I think trying to tolerate a varied response might be a helpful approach.
Does this make sense? Tomorrow may be better. Not perfect, but more pleasant. And you will find some the therapy right for you. I am looking myself for the right therapy. It is not easy. Please don't despair. Life and everything is so uneven.
Posted by tepi on August 8, 2011, at 1:27:29
In reply to Re: These anticonvulsants have something good » tepi, posted by floatingbridge on August 7, 2011, at 21:45:52
> >
> > Ups , bad news , third day on it ,and I didnt feel the same than the first 2 days, if Iike If I had taken nothing , any pill
> > Jesus , here I go again
>
> Tepi, I wish there was something to extinguish fear. I haven't found it yet. But there are good days and not so good days, and sometimes medication helps me, though it doesn't always seem to work.
>
> Part of having any fear or anxiety is also having a fear of the fear coming back. Maybe there will be times when a medication, in this case, Lyrica, doesn't work well enough, or the fear comes through anyways. But that doesn't mean it won't be or isn't a helper medication for you.
>
> I am not trying to convince you to take Lyrica in particular. I think trying to tolerate a varied response might be a helpful approach.
>
> Does this make sense? Tomorrow may be better. Not perfect, but more pleasant. And you will find some the therapy right for you. I am looking myself for the right therapy. It is not easy. Please don't despair. Life and everything is so uneven.
>Thanks for your post . You seems to be a really nice person floatin. I felt more druged because I took another pill when I found 1 pill didnt made it
You are rigth about the fear. Do you have the same problem?
I have bad thougths all the time , I mean very bad thougths about life.
Im living but Im like a death person. I think no girl deserves to be with someone like me
I really dont know what im doing in this world
It has no sense for me
Posted by SLS on August 8, 2011, at 7:40:51
In reply to Re: These anticonvulsants have something good » floatingbridge, posted by tepi on August 8, 2011, at 1:27:29
> > >
> > > Ups , bad news , third day on it ,and I didnt feel the same than the first 2 days, if Iike If I had taken nothing , any pill
> > > Jesus , here I go again
> >
> > Tepi, I wish there was something to extinguish fear. I haven't found it yet. But there are good days and not so good days, and sometimes medication helps me, though it doesn't always seem to work.
> >
> > Part of having any fear or anxiety is also having a fear of the fear coming back. Maybe there will be times when a medication, in this case, Lyrica, doesn't work well enough, or the fear comes through anyways. But that doesn't mean it won't be or isn't a helper medication for you.
> >
> > I am not trying to convince you to take Lyrica in particular. I think trying to tolerate a varied response might be a helpful approach.
> >
> > Does this make sense? Tomorrow may be better. Not perfect, but more pleasant. And you will find some the therapy right for you. I am looking myself for the right therapy. It is not easy. Please don't despair. Life and everything is so uneven.
> >
>
> Thanks for your post . You seems to be a really nice person floatin. I felt more druged because I took another pill when I found 1 pill didnt made it
> You are rigth about the fear. Do you have the same problem?
> I have bad thougths all the time , I mean very bad thougths about life.
> Im living but Im like a death person. I think no girl deserves to be with someone like me
> I really dont know what im doing in this world
> It has no sense for meThat's when it helps to have someone assist you in putting the pieces of your puzzle together. Depending on the specific content of your fears, there are psychotherapies and life-coaches that can help with this.
That's also when it is time to commit to pursuing an effective biological treatment. Don't give up. Your time will come. The new antidepressant, vilazodone (Viibryd) might have important anxiolytic properties that are yet under-appreciated. I guess we will have to wait until enough people are treated with this drug to be sure.
Have you been diagnosed as having an anxiety disorder?
- Generalized Anxiety Disorder
- Social Anxiety Disorder
- OCD
- PTSDI found that my depression had severe social anxiety as a component. I also found that I was plagued with intrusive thoughts and feelings of guilt. A single antidepressant is capable of successfully treating all of these symptoms at once.
Good Luck. Stay positive and constructive. Be resolved to find a successful treatment for the conditions that are now causing you pain and an inability to function effectively in the world.
- Scott
Posted by floatingbridge on August 8, 2011, at 9:23:57
In reply to Re: These anticonvulsants have something good » floatingbridge, posted by tepi on August 8, 2011, at 1:27:29
Tepi,
I have a lot of diagnoses, Social anxiety/phobia as well as PTSD. Also mood disorders of some sort. So the answer to your question is yes, I do have extreme anxiety, fear, even terrible thoughts like I do not deserve to be alive. This is different in my mind than being suicidal, because I do not wish myself any harm, only to feel better and to live.
At times, I know what joy is, appreciate beauty and pleasure. I have some good friends, but it is difficult.
Something I admire very much about you is that you are able to work. That was always difficult for me to sustain, despite having earned a degree.
I think there is much value in what Scott has posted, about sticking with a medicine and finding therapy that works for you, as difficult as that might be--finding a therapist that is.
Thanks for your kind words, Tepi. I wish I didn't understand fear, but I certainly do in my own way.
Posted by sigismund on August 8, 2011, at 12:01:13
In reply to Re: These anticonvulsants have something good » floatingbridge, posted by tepi on August 8, 2011, at 1:27:29
>I have bad thougths all the time , I mean very bad thougths about life.
Im living but Im like a death person. I think no girl deserves to be with someone like me
I really dont know what im doing in this world
It has no sense for meTep, it is entirely normal to have bad thoughts about life. But what can happen is that they spread and so you have bad thoughts about your bad thoughts. You don't have to love life. It is what it is. The idea of acceptance is there to bring an end to the endless negative talk. There is no reason life should make sense to you. Some of the most profound thinking has come from people to whom life made no sense. Still, I never found much anyone said helped me accept myself better. Time helped.
Posted by floatingbridge on August 8, 2011, at 12:08:35
In reply to Re: These anticonvulsants have something good » tepi, posted by sigismund on August 8, 2011, at 12:01:13
> >I have bad thougths all the time , I mean very bad thougths about life.
> Im living but Im like a death person. I think no girl deserves to be with someone like me
> I really dont know what im doing in this world
> It has no sense for me
>
> Tep, it is entirely normal to have bad thoughts about life. But what can happen is that they spread and so you have bad thoughts about your bad thoughts. You don't have to love
life. It is what it is. The idea of acceptance is there to bring an end to the endless negative talk. There is no reason life should make sense to you. Some of the most profound thinking has come from people to whom life made no sense. Still, I never found much anyone said helped me accept
myself better. Time helped.
Thanks sigi. Though you weren't addressing me. One of the most helpful things is placing experience on a normal spectrum. It's reassuring. Truly. And just a linguistic adjustment here and there can have great positive effect. You've done this before, and I so appreciate that contribution to babble.
Posted by tepi on August 8, 2011, at 19:09:26
In reply to Re: These anticonvulsants have something good » tepi, posted by SLS on August 8, 2011, at 7:40:51
>
> That's when it helps to have someone assist you in putting the pieces of your puzzle together. Depending on the specific content of your fears, there are psychotherapies and life-coaches that can help with this.
>
> That's also when it is time to commit to pursuing an effective biological treatment. Don't give up. Your time will come. The new antidepressant, vilazodone (Viibryd) might have important anxiolytic properties that are yet under-appreciated. I guess we will have to wait until enough people are treated with this drug to be sure.
>
Hi Scott
Sounds good that you mention a new AD , and that you mention that it could have anxiolytic properties .
I wish I had a good terapist . Im not sure about lifecoaches maybe those do not exist here> Have you been diagnosed as having an anxiety disorder?
>
> - Generalized Anxiety Disorder
> - Social Anxiety Disorder
> - OCD
> - PTSD
>Not officially. Only one Doctor gave me a diagnosis and he said I had an shizoaffective disorder. the other didnt know what to tell me , just that I had a depression but none tell me anymore. Social Phobia fits perfectlly in my symptopms thougth
> I found that my depression had severe social anxiety as a component. I also found that I was plagued with intrusive thoughts and feelings of guilt. A single antidepressant is capable of successfully treating all of these symptoms at once.
>
> Good Luck. Stay positive and constructive. Be resolved to find a successful treatment for the conditions that are now causing you pain and an inability to function effectively in the world.
>
>
> - ScottThanks Scott, I hope good days come to me soon
I wihs you luck too
Tepi
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