![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ihatedrugs on May 2, 2011, at 9:58:25
I know this subject has been discussed before but I would like to know how LDN affects depression. I have fibromyalgia and apparently quite a few people are doing well on a low dose regimen of Naltrexone. I have also read mixed reports on its effect on mood. I would like to try it but I'm afraid it will make me more depressed. I am going to speak to my rheumatologist about it. I'm really hoping this could be a possible treatment for the fibro and depression. In my case, my main complaint is extreme fatigue and anhedonia exacerbated by PMS and I am really at my wits end because I don't know what else to try. I'm taking Lexapro20mg, Clonazepan 2mg, Lyrica 75mg, Ambien 10-20mg. I have taken pretty much everything else aside from the older drugs.
There is a facebook group called Naltrexone treatment (or something like it) and some people seem to be doing amazing on it.
Posted by Phillipa on May 2, 2011, at 11:14:30
In reply to LDN, posted by ihatedrugs on May 2, 2011, at 9:58:25
Will have to check out the facebook groups. I guess you search for it right? Do you know who runs it? Phillipa
Posted by ihatedrugs on May 2, 2011, at 16:23:03
In reply to Re: LDN » ihatedrugs, posted by Phillipa on May 2, 2011, at 11:14:30
https://www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?gid=108424385861883&v=info
Seems some people are having good results for fibro and other ailments. I'm going to ask my rheumatologist about it. I have seen a few web blogs where some people claim it helped their mood and others where it worsened it. Go figure!
Posted by bleauberry on May 2, 2011, at 16:31:45
In reply to LDN, posted by ihatedrugs on May 2, 2011, at 9:58:25
LDN can indeed be amazing. I think more often than not it is helpful enough to keep on board, but not a total cure. Then again, sometimes, it is magic.
Since it first became trendy among the mysterious-disease crowd a few years ago, new things have been learned about it. For example, the 1.5mg to 4.5mg doses are not set in stone. Some people do best on much lower doses. Some people do well taking it during the day rather than at bedtime.
Heroine addicts claim it prevents tolerance, poopout, and withdrawal of their opiate highs. But....the dose that does that is 1/10th of 1mg taken at the same time as their illicit drug. The point I'm trying to make here is that LDN can do profound things even at doses that would totally confound someone who thinks only terms of scientific explanation.
My best dose is 1/8th of a 1.5mg capsule taken between 10am and 2pm. Various attempts at experimentation were the only way to discover that for myself. The lowest dose of 1.5mg did make me more depressed and quite anxious. Very uncomfortable.
I find it stunning such a tiny amount could have such power. But someone else might go straight to 4.5mg with no problem.
My first go round with LDN I started with 1.5mg. I did feel like crap but persisted. It was hard. About 2 weeks into I noticed I was having sporadic random moments during the day of feeling quite good....energy, mood, social. It was great. The rest of the time though was so bad I just couldn't hang in there and keep going with it.
Over the years I have developed sort of an inner sense to tell if something is within the serotonergic realm, NE realm, or dopaminergic realm. Though I cannot find any literature backing up my thoughts, I am convinced it has some kind of dopaminergic involvement. Maybe that's why one of the common starting side effects is insomnia or bizarre dreams?
NE....no. Serotonin....maybe a very slight distant touch.One wife at a forum said her husband was much better on LDN but still depressed. The addition of DLPA to LDN erased his longstanding depression right away. Maybe some synergy?
Anyway, for any psychiatric patient I am a huge fan of LDN. If they are willing to subject themselves to strong doses of psych meds, LDN is a cakewalk in comparison. And in my opinion has equal or greater potential to help the person compared to any psychiatric med on the planet. I just think that the dosing and timing takes extreme importance. I discovered in an unpleasant way that a common dose could indeed make me feel like hell and death, but that a different dose was friendly. Bedtime dosing was aweful for me, waking up almost in tears I felt so depressed. But daytime dosing was harmonious.
Our own opioid and endorphin system is intricately involved with all sorts of biologies within us....mood, energy, pain, immune function, disease in general. Though we may not be able to explain in or accurately test it, we can see in forums all around the world the amazing potential it has. You don't see those same kinds of "trends" with any other psych meds except maybe the old Nardil formula.
I would go as far as to say this. It makes no sense to not try it. Just play with the dosing and timing and plan on some time to see results. Disease is not quickly turned around.
Posted by floatingbridge on May 2, 2011, at 22:11:40
In reply to LDN, posted by ihatedrugs on May 2, 2011, at 9:58:25
ihd,
I'm mulling this one over myself. Have you Googled Sean Mackey +Stanford? He did a small trial with LDN & fibromyalgia (only ten women) and wrote an optimistic
paper.My gp, for whatever it's worth, pointed out that since LDN would take up certain opoid or whatever receptors, that could create an instant withdrawal (for me and 10mg norco). Not the end of the world, necessarily, but, I don't know. I scanned your med list. Seems o.k. but what do I know.
Do you have someone to run it with you? (Supervise or support?)
How is the lyrica for you? Same gp said she thinks it did some odd occupation on the gaba receptors and I was taking xanax....
Please let me know how you do or what you decide about the LDN. If you would.
I'm sorry to hear about the fibro.
fb
Posted by ihatedrugs on May 2, 2011, at 23:49:58
In reply to Re: LDN » ihatedrugs, posted by floatingbridge on May 2, 2011, at 22:11:40
> ihd,
>
> I'm mulling this one over myself. Have you Googled Sean Mackey +Stanford? He did a small trial with LDN & fibromyalgia (only ten women) and wrote an optimistic
> paper.
>
> My gp, for whatever it's worth, pointed out that since LDN would take up certain opoid or whatever receptors, that could create an instant withdrawal (for me and 10mg norco). Not the end of the world, necessarily, but, I don't know. I scanned your med list. Seems o.k. but what do I know.
>
> Do you have someone to run it with you? (Supervise or support?)
>
> How is the lyrica for you? Same gp said she thinks it did some odd occupation on the gaba receptors and I was taking xanax....
>
> Please let me know how you do or what you decide about the LDN. If you would.
>
> I'm sorry to hear about the fibro.
>
> fb
FB
I´m going to my dr. tomorrow to discuss it with her. If you have a Facebook account search for low dose Naltrexone. You won´t believe how many people it has helped.
I believe there may have been a second Stanford study. Also there was a 2nd conference in Glasgow on Naltrexone which offers quite a bit of information. I´m still on Lyrica but cannot take anything over 50mg otherwise I´m in stupid-land the next day. The only thing that helps is Adderall but I´m afraid, I´m falling into the prescription meds trap, where I need a med to sleep, another to think and function and another to feel like I want to continue living and so on. It´s madness.Bleauberry
I may consider trying LDN as soon as school is out. I am a teacher so I have two months to get it together.
I am also suspecting that perhaps I may have a Biotin deficiency. I have read in some websites that long term use of anticonvulsants may result in Biotin deficiency and its symptoms are very similar to what I have been going through for the past couple of years.Extreme fatigue, muscle pain, dermatitis etc... I have been taking Klonopin 1-3mg for over 8 years. My mom has also been taking Klonopin and we both have the same symptoms. So who knows. I´m going to ask my dr. tomorrow.
Posted by floatingbridge on May 2, 2011, at 23:57:01
In reply to Re: LDN, posted by ihatedrugs on May 2, 2011, at 23:49:58
Good luck with this.
Yeah, the med trap. My doctor tried to prescribe something for the gastritis I had on cymbalta. (No.) On Lyrica I was told I slurred my words and worried I was having strokes because of cognitive issues.
Fibromyalgia tends to make people very med sensitive.
Will look up the FB site.
Very best with this.
Posted by sk85 on May 3, 2011, at 15:37:33
In reply to Re: LDN, posted by ihatedrugs on May 2, 2011, at 23:49:58
>Bedtime dosing was aweful for me, waking up almost in tears I felt so depressed. But daytime dosing was harmonious.
I had the same experience with LDN. Daytime dosing was way more effective for low mood. I haven't done much research on it but some depressed people seem to have excessive endorphins in their blood plasma.
http://www.anxietyinsights.info/overactive_brain_endorphin_system_linked_to_depression.htm
-Ikaros
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.